My import game site: Rising Stuff

[JapanesePeso]

A plug here if I may.

I have the machine up to play these on:

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?t=136861

$175 and recently refurbished and if you need more games to go along with your new purchase, you can get them from this guy right here. I've seen a few of those prices and they are awesome!

Now, there's no excuse not to go after these tremendous games of his offering!

Yeah definitely a nice deal on a boxed twin with a new belt. Good luck with your sale!

[Kron]

Sent you an email the other day about some promo Dreamcast items.

[Aussie2B]

What games were you looking at that they added up to $23? It must have been heavier items such as Neo Geo carts or the computer games I would assume. Either that or there was an error in the weight of one of the items. 4 normal cd games should come to $7 or so air mail.

They were N64 games, so like I said, average-weight. I know they're not as light a typical disc-based game, but they're definitely not as heavy as a Neo Geo game.

[JapanesePeso]

They were N64 games, so like I said, average-weight. I know they're not as light a typical disc-based game, but they're definitely not as heavy as a Neo Geo game.

Ah okay... N64 games usually weight about 300 grams each as I recall (Normal cd games-based games weight 100-120 grams). Mainly that big box and all the extra packaging weight that goes with it. Can add up fast unfortunately (about 1.2 kg for 4 games). For SAL that comes to about $23 actually. We usually take a bit of a loss on the shipping with multiple items to promote people buying more at once.

[Nico87]

You need to make the verfication code easier! Spent the 5 or whatever tries, and now it says I have to wait and try again later!

[Spazmonkey]

Can't recommend these guys enough! Amazing owners, really down to Earth, and plus, they have song made exclusively about the Playdia. That fact alone makes them worthy of all your money.

[mobiusclimber]

Ah okay... N64 games usually weight about 300 grams each as I recall (Normal cd games-based games weight 100-120 grams). Mainly that big box and all the extra packaging weight that goes with it. Can add up fast unfortunately (about 1.2 kg for 4 games). For SAL that comes to about $23 actually. We usually take a bit of a loss on the shipping with multiple items to promote people buying more at once.

I've noticed that below a certain weight, it's cheaper to do Airmail than SAL or Seamail. Is this the problem here?

[JapanesePeso]

I've noticed that below a certain weight, it's cheaper to do Airmail than SAL or Seamail. Is this the problem here?

You mean EMS not SAL right?

I'm not sure. The rates we charge for Air Mail are the post offices prices for SAL. Not sure where you can get 4 boxed N64 games shipped for $7 from Japan... Perhaps I need to go doublecheck the weight of n64 games to confirm.

[Aussie2B]

SAL should always be cheaper than Airmail. Seamail is the one that's more expensive until you get to the heavy stuff.

From my experience, a single N64 game can ship for about $4 with SAL, while Airmail would normally cost $6-7. So that's why I was saying before that with 4 N64 games, they should be able to ship for less even separately with SAL than the $23 listed for Airmail on the site.

Just recently I had a package weighing 1245g at the post office shipped for $17. Even that seemed unusually high, though, as it was only about a buck less than what the items would've cost to ship separately, so it's leading me to believe that SAL rates must've been altered in Japan within the last few months. I remember getting similar orders in the past shipped for around $10. I think now the old adage of buying more at once to save on shipping doesn't apply much to SAL, but it should always be cheaper than EMS and Airmail, especially considering that SAL is just a second-class Airmail (Airmail gets priority and goes directly on the plane; SAL only goes when there's available space). With my aforementioned order, I remember the Airmail quote was around $10 more.

Sometimes I wish I was just into light stuff like Saturn, PC Engine, and Famicom like most importers. :P

[mobiusclimber]

SAL should always be cheaper than Airmail. Seamail is the one that's more expensive until you get to the heavy stuff.

Yeah, I meant Seamail is more expensive than Airmail until a certain amount of weight is reached.

[The 1 2 P]

PM sent a few days ago.

[JapanesePeso]

Yeah, I meant Seamail is more expensive than Airmail until a certain amount of weight is reached.

Yeah, there is also a small packet rate for sea mail which is much cheaper but is anyone really going to get something sent sea mail that's under 2 kilograms?

[MonoTekETeA]

So I guess I should speak out before more people get pulled into something they aren't necessarily wanting to be apart of. I've been dealing with Rising Stuff and their shoddy business for just about a year now, and have grown tired of it. Now they come around to my stomping grounds trying to get more shoppers and this is when I will finally decide to put my foot down and call them out on this.

It all started back in October 28th of last year. I discovered their site and was happy to find a place run by American's in Japan, selling video games, for video gamers. It was simply awesome, I joined the forums and quickly started chatting up a storm in the chat room with plenty of people who I consider friends till today.

Ten days later, I had compiled a $600 dollar purchase for them. It consisted of various items, all which they had replied to me on that day, November 8th, that they had all items in stock. They had been friendly with me all through this transaction, and I was looking forward to receiving my packages from the land of the rising sun.

Fast Forward to November 29th, I wasn't told when the box had shipped, and my father informed me a few days after the green notification slip was left in the mail box, that I did have a package that I had to go and sign for. Rock 'n Roll, wish I had known that it had shipped and to watch for it, but who cares. I am getting my stuff right?

I went to the post office and signed for my box and brought it home and promptly opened it up. I come to find that I have received about half of my order, including half a set of Samba Maracas, just maracas, no sensor bar, or mat like I was told it would be. Still, I was naturally stoked, but was wondering where my other package was. So I sent them a PM that night stating what had arrived and what I was still missing. They replied in within the same night and said there was another package that was shipped out, but they waited a little bit, because they needed a few parts. Okay then. This was my first time dealing with international shipping like this so I waited.

And waited. I sent them a message on December 19th, saying happy holidays, and asking about my box. No response.

And waited. I sent them another message on January 5th to both Alex and Sensei, I was always dealing with Alex, but figured I would give Sensei a heads up too. Sensei responds with-in minutes saying that he would forward the message to Alex. At that time I thought to myself, "well shoot why can't you deal with this?" But none the less, I kept my happy attitude about everything, because really, even though it had been nearly three months already, we were dealing with overseas stuff, and they were nice guys. Just complaining would making it hard on everyone.

Alex gets back to me two days later saying that they sent the box out awhile ago, and would dig up the tracking number I didn't have so we could find out what happened to it. Two days later, I respond with a thank you and would be waiting happily and patiently. Meanwhile my friends are talking to me and saying how I have to make a bigger deal about this to get things done.

Well I waited a bit more. January 17th I ask for the tracking number. He gets back to me saying he forgot. Find out it was last at the post a few towns away. So I drive there. This leads to us finding out that it got lost at that point and that we have to file for insurance. Alex said it was covered for $250, more then what the box and it's contents were worth, and he would give the extra to me as cash or credit. I figured I would be a nice guy and just stick with the credit.

Jump ahead to March 3rd, I haven't heard from the post office about the insurance claim and nor has he. That doesn't matter to me as much though, because I was still waiting on the product it self, which they had sent me out in the mean time. I got the box a week later.

BUT! Another problem! I was missing two items. I let him know about this a two weeks later because, I like them I also was very busy and forgot to, which was my main reason for staying cool the entire time. This was sent to them on April 29th.

I wait for a response and send them a reminder on Jun 3.

I get a response on the 23rd saying he would get those items ASAP.

I send a message back on the 28th, stating I was looking forward to it.

Zoom on ahead, September 11th, I send him another reminder, he gets back to me 3 hours later. Stating how sorry he was, and that he would order the items for me.

October 2ed he responds saying he needs my address for the shipment. Even though it was still in the history, he still had to check you know? I could have moved with in a few months time since I last received a package. I respond the same day with my address.

On the 8th, six days ago, I sent him a message asking if he could please notify me when he ships out this box. I still haven't gotten a message back.

Dear god! There is everything. Now the entire time, my friends were saying that I should have sent more reminders and this and that, but I don't really see that as being my fault. As a business, these guys should have been able to deal with this in a timely manner. But it never was.

If anybody doubts my story, I have back ups of every PM from the year saved on my computer. I am just posting this to make sure nobody else gets burned. While these guys seem nice and grand, they just don't follow through with anything and you are the one left hanging. Even though this would be bad for any purchase, consider spending $600 and having to wait a whole year to get your order...which I still haven't gotten everything and the fact that from day 1 they supposedly had everything "in stock". I don't plan on posting this anywhere else, just here at DP to help keep others informed before they decide if they want to proceed buying from Rising Stuff.

-Jeremy

[JapanesePeso]

Hi Jeremy,

Yes, the process of handling your order was definitely not handled as well as it could of been by us. If it's any consolation, the final two items in your order were sent out a week ago and should be arriving soon.

I'm very sorry, this was the first an EMS item was ever lost in the mail for us so working through things with the post office really did take a long time (2 to 3 months as I recall, it's a small post office and they weren't sure what to do). Combine that with all the hecticity of moving our store, our month long trip to America, and the process of tracking down all the specific replacement goods for it (like you said it was a very big order, 40 or 50 items as I recall), everything was all unreasonably delayed. For that I'm very sorry.

We are now a lot better able to handle EMS orders lost in the mail and I can guarantee an occurence like this will never happen again.

[PC-ENGINE HELL]

Glad Nectarsis showed me this.

Sorry but this isn't the only time bull shit has happened with Alex and Sensei. Others have had problems also prior. I have no idea how their business goes currently, but in the past they have done some shady shit and chalked it up to mistakes and what not. They tend to do a lot of spin and excuses when it does happen, and a few people they treat really great, those folks basically chime in to smooth things over. I'm actually honestly surprised Alex has posted here as much as he has. After him and Sensei got enough business and members from Pcefx, they up and ran.

I used to be very verbal for a lot of people at Pcefx, but I'm not going to fight anyone's battles anymore or argue crap here, just say my piece on the matter. If someone who was burned wishes to voice their issues, they know how. Im not going to name anyone specifically and put them on the spot. I did mark Alex and Sensei up as a bad seller on my import seller resource list. Im not going to recite everything on there in detail, so if anyone wants to know more and get my opinion on it, they can just go and read up for themselves, spend time and investigate over at PCEFX, and make up their own minds.

http://home.comcast.net/~amakusa666/...rsResource.htm

To me about the only good thing their site had going was the forums, because the people there are good guys in their own right (pcefx members I knew who either went over completely or posted at both sites.). A great forum however does not make a great business. No matter how nice the members are, it has no reflection on the actual owners and their activities, Alex and Sensei are their own men. The forum members don't run the show, sell you the items, pack them and ship them out. If these guys tried to pull this shit at the Neo forums (or possibly ebay) they would have been chewed up and spat out. Thats all I will say on the matter.

If you are really interested in making a purchase with Alex and Sensei, I highly recommend you demand recent pics of the items you want, have them Keep a note card by the item or items with their name and date so you know they are not just recycling others pics from other sites, and really have said items in stock before you make payment. If its a game system, make sure to nail them down to a agreement that includes everything you need to use said system, and pay by credit card so your payment is protected. If they don't deliver said items in good time, open a dispute/charge back. Protect yourself against them like you would any other business. No matter what anyone else tries to say, if a problem does arise, do whats right for you.

[Soviet Conscript]

well as a customer at RS from pretty much when they started up i feel i need to say a few things

the incidents mentioned by MonoTekETeA and pc-engine hell very likely did happen as well as many others. i myself had a problem with an order. but i also feel i need to say there were very good reasons. i beleive one of the owners had a death in the family, the store move, thier trip to the US along with the growing burden of dealing with the multitude of "special orders" they did at the time. it got to the point where as concerned customers we had to bring these to the owners (alex and sensei) attention.

i can say though in good confidence that these issues have been resolved, maybe you can think of them as buisness growing pains but i know that alex and sensei took great measures with at least everyone i knew had order problems includeing myself to set things right. i have been more then happy with my recent orders as well as everyone else i know who has ordered recently.

yes there were problems at one point but i want to assure anyone thinking of ordering from RS that these problems have been resolved and i would not hesitate to make more orders or reccommend friends to make orders at RS.

[JapanesePeso]

Long Post

Please don't confuse MonoTekka's legitimate post with this one. PC-ENGINEHELL, you certainly didn't seem to have a problem with your order for the entire next year after you made it. You seem to have only become angry about it as soon as I banned you from the forums for telling a terminally ill patient that you hoped they would go to hell.

[Lios]

Risingstuff started business around late 2006, and like any new business, it has gone through it's growing pains. I dare someone to find an upstart company run solely by one or two people that did not make at least a few mistakes in their first year of business.

Most of the problems Mike describes happened around the start of risingstuff.com taking orders in late 2006/early 2007. The owners of risingstuff Kevin and Alex were still getting things setup. They had not quite established a consistent system, and were somewhat disorganized. They have since moved into an actual store for packing, sorting, and organizing packages. My only complaint is that is can sometimes take a little while to get in touch with Alex or Kevin, but it has never been excessive. The only time they were not available for an extended period of time, was when they traveled to America for a convention, and then moved into their new store. During this time, they froze all store operations, and even announced that they would be unavailable until X date.

Yes in late 2006/2007 many people who ordered a system that came with a power adapter did not receive said power adapter at first. Alex has told me this is because they were not as organized then as they are now, and many times the power supply would be forgotten due to the fact that they always shipped power supplies separately in an attempt to cut shipping costs.

However, people who complained about this mistake were sent a psu as soon as Alex or Kevin could send it. Now I ask you, if they were trying to scam someone or gyp someone out of something they paid for, how do you explain that they promptly sent psus out as soon as they were made aware of their mistake? Business wise this would make no sense, if they were scammers, they would not send a psu. This actually happened to me when I ordered a red sharp famicom twin in late 2006. Not only did they promptly respond and apologize for the inconvenience, but they sent a psu out immediately along with some goodies for my trouble. Alex has personally stated that he sent psu's out to all paying customers that did not receive one as far as he is aware. In fact, if this happened to you and you still have not received a psu, just let Alex or Kevin know via their e-mail on risingstuff.com. Believe me, they will make things right.

Mike you mention the whole actual condition of items not representative of their description problem. As far as I am aware this has happened in a few isolated cases, and only very early on in their business. As far as I am aware this never even happened to you personally. I don't know if it is true or not, but Alex has said that the one order you did make with risingstuff was received with zero problems.

No offense, but you are quick to jump to conclusions and take sides. How do know that these situations actually happened? I am not saying that people who claim this happened are liars, in fact, Alex and Kevin admitted making such mistakes. If the buyers in these situations demanded correction for this problem, I have no doubt that Alex or Kevin would have obliged. However, in the cases I have heard of, the buyer opted to just keep the item and required nothing more from risingstuff.

I really don't understand your personal vendetta with risingstuff. Yes they have made mistakes in the past, but as far as I know, they have done their best to correct such mistakes. If you are unsure of a purchase or have questions, they have no problem providing you with detailed pictures and answers. If they make a mistake, let them know, and they will do their best to correct it. I am unaware of a situation where a mistake was made and reasonable attempts at reaching and agreeable solution weren't made. I am not saying such a situation has never occurred, just that it has not personally happened to me or any of my friends who have purchased games from risingstuff.

You also claim that Alex and Kevin, "up and ran" after they got enough business and members from Pcefx. No offense but this seems ironic coming from someone who left pcfx themselves, due to disagreements about how the place was being run and moderated. I know of only one member who completely left the site and signed up for the risingstuff forums excluding you and mobiusclimber who left after an argument and disgust with how the place was moderated. This member has only made one purchase at risingstuff, and has personally stated that he also did not care for some of the people on pcfx.com or the way it was being run. Alex and Sensei DO still post on pcfx.com from time to time, and no it isn't always an advertisement or attempt to sell something. Many of the members from pcfx are still active on both forums.

I know you are looking out for people Mike, and I respect that, but these rash conspiracy theories are really starting to get tiresome. It's a whole lot of "he said" "she said" with lots of assumptions and very little testimony or cold hard evidence to support your claims. In fact, for the amount of time risingstuff has been in business for, I am surprised they have made as few mistakes as they have. I know of certain other businesses in years past, that had mountains of complaints since day one. If anyone here feels that risingstuff has screwed them over in any way, I would appreciate hearing about it.

Mono, talking to Alex to today about this thread he said "one customer made a legitimate complaint. Something we messed up a long time ago and only recently remedied." I don't know the current specific details, but I am curious if they truly have remedied the situation. Alex and Kevin seem to realize they royally screwed up, and I'm sorry to hear about your situation. I agree that they really did mess up, and I'd hate for anyone to be in your situation. Yours is an especially outstanding case, and I don't think it was ever Alex or Kevin's intention to rip you off or waste your time. Not that it excuses what they have done. I will say to anyone leery of risingstuff, to go ahead and sign up for the forums before making an order. The people there are nice, and sometimes Alex or Kevin pop up in the chat. They are actually cool people to talk to. Please let me know if you get your items, or compensation for them. If not I can talk to Alex about it, as I talk to him from time to time.

[PC-ENGINE HELL]

Spin Spin Spin

Ahh Alex, I really didn't want to have to do this with you, but you don't know how to shut up the spin I guess.... so here goes.

In a forum, if you plan to business, you damn well better be prepared to have your screw ups , let alone your shady bs come to light eventually.
It doesn't take a master of the obvious to figure out that eventually your crap will catch up with you, on a sale thread or otherwise when you screw up. If you actually meant well, you wouldn't be as busy trying to defend and spin as much as you would be just fixing said problems. And seriously, that guy above had waited a long ass time, and a lot of money was involved. I was surprised enough by the other mess ups, but damn the above was something else entirely.

Everyone who knows me knew of my issue with your order system, and of my problems with your original order with both myself and Quoth09 ( who you were very eager to get money from, yet didn't even have the items he wanted in stock, and never got them in either even though you said you would). They also know how I was about trying to warn buyers of problems with sellers on Pcefx in general. I was actually quite vocal about your store and our issue with Pcefx forum members, and Sensei, in shout on Pcefx, both before and after I paid for the items, and after they arrived to me. I was quite clear as to why I never would place another order with you again to most all who know me, and some who did not. It was not kept private. Don't try to confuse it, or spin the situation any other way then for what it is. You were not even actively posting on Pcefx. Your absence spoke volumes. I also confronted Sensei on the Pcefx forum, and Rising also I do believe, about the stealing members matter long ago.

He promised you guys would try to make amends to the Pcefx community, and you never did. You cant deny, or spin, that any other way either, just like anything else going on here. My thoughts on your business, both of you, had been well known for the longest by many, prior to joining rising, and after so. Buy a clue man. I even posted Windancer and Nectarsis buyers guide on my own site after you removed all mention of other businesses and communities that were a viable part of the NEC machine fanbase.

I never joined your forums to do business with you. I did so when Dave Medina started going around on sites impersonating me with fake accounts.
I made this well know right when I joined. As for coming back now and then, I only did so to chat with said pcefx members when they were not around PCEFX anymore. I barely posted on your forum, maybe 30 post in many months, and only on threads friends posted on. If you need Nectarsis, Mithos, Windancer, Sinistron, and Quoth09 to confirm this for you, then have at it kiddo. Up to you. Your embarrassment, your grave.

As for mine and Missa issues, they are prior to you, and have nothing to do with you, your business, or your forum. Don't even try to twist that situation to suit your needs. Those who know me, like those mentioned above, know better, and that just makes you look bad in peoples eyes trying to do so. Many others already knew of our situation, including the mentioned above Pcefx members, and that she should not have tried to contact me, in shout or otherwise on any forum, and many who knew the situation knew she was just trying to egg a fight and start a scene on turf that she felt comfortable doing so on. She agreed to the no contact on PCEFX. You would have known all about that, but then again, after stealing members from Pcenginfx forums, you up and left.... so you seem to not know shit, correct? I find it very amusing that you'd even bring that up to try to down play all else on your business fuck ups.

[PC-ENGINE HELL]

And, for the record, get it straight, I told Missa "on no uncertain terms to f**k off and die". Harsh words, sure. Did she have it coming, yes. She knew better, and should have left well enough alone. Did I ever say I was a nice guy who turned the other cheek, no. All those who know me know I don't, nor do I get intimidated. If all the above somehow never clued you in, then Id have at least thought the fact that I pulled no punches on your own forum shout my last night there, knowing full well you were there in said shout, should let you know how little I thought of you and Sensei, and how little I cared to be there, and that I obviously knew what the outcome would be.

If you need Quoth09, Nectarsis, or Sinistron to confirm it, they can assure you I thought the ban was fair and just, and also quite amusing. If I was in your position, Id have done the same. Do I hold a personal grudge, no, I don't. I don't know you on a personal level. How would I? Yours and Sensei's lack of being on a personal level at Pcefx, and of your stealing members and running prevented any of the such from happening. Even when I was at Rising most all you did when I was on was talk about business and try to get people to order from you. Business as usual. You'll know its personal when I make it personal. Ask Dean. He knows this much. And even after his major screw up I put in a good word for him awhile ago. You are just a business, you didn't even qualify as a community member. And as far as businesses go, a lousy one at that to me.

Since you wanted to drag Missa into this, which is pretty low of you, isn't Missa one of your star customers, but as you said, which I was not aware that that was her extent, actually "terminally ill", wont go stay in the hospital, complains she cant afford her bills for it and meds, ect , but even though you were aware of her poverty and illness situation, you had no qualms about taking her money on decent sized orders. Not even considering how it could be adding to both her financial and illness problems?

Makes you a great guy for sure. A outstanding community member.......No wait, what I guess it really means is that its not your problem as long as you get paid. She was even in need of medical equipment she couldn't afford when she was posting on pcefx, and was having to ask around on PCEFX for a possible donations/trades. If you had even the slightest grip on your forum members situations and personal lives, and actually cared, regardless of being a business, Id think morally you'd make better decisions. But hey, who wants to screw up business as usual.

As for this activity, you think I sniffed MonoTekETeA's post out on my own? Sorry again. Nectarsis pointed it out to me. Yes, your own moderator. And you know what, we were not surprised to see it. Why should we be. As low as this is, and as sure as hell it will irk Nectarsis, I'll post our conversation about it for prosperity sake. I think its due considering your such a god damned scum bucket spinster liar. He planned to post here tomorrow anyway about your bullshit, so why wait?



Byron Brauner: http://www.digitpress.com/forum/show...=136933&page=2
Byron Brauner:
Amakusa: ouch lol
Byron Brauner:
Byron Brauner: I figured you'd like that
Byron Brauner: and typical lame BS response from Alex
Amakusa: well, u know u could chime in on that too, honestly
Byron Brauner: sorry trying to load a game
Byron Brauner: yeah I may chime in
Byron Brauner: get my own lame response
Amakusa: may shmay
Amakusa: u should
Amakusa: this guy shouldn't be on his own
Amakusa: is mithos on this forum too?
Byron Brauner: not sure
Amakusa: u should find out
Byron Brauner: I haven't been able to get ahold him for days
Amakusa: or have him type up sumthin and post it for him
Byron Brauner: I'll let him know to..if he ever shows up again ;p;
Byron Brauner: lol
Amakusa: im replying on there, u should too
Amakusa: because otherwise this guy will get swamped in spin and bs
Amakusa: and that isnt fair, because u know alex and sensei have fucked off before
Byron Brauner: very true
Byron Brauner: funy to I've seen Mono log in a few times lately..never comes to chat..I was trying to lean on them to get his shit taken care of
Byron Brauner: he kinda disapeered so I thoughteverything was ok
Amakusa: evidently not
Amakusa: ho wmany knew about the fuck ups on orders besides mithos, me,eric?
Amakusa: about the power supplies not included, and stuff missing in orders?
Amakusa: i think wind did, because he said shit on a rant one nite
Amakusa: but i dont remember what all he ranted about
Byron Brauner: prob wind, soviet
Amakusa: i kno wu dont want to lose ur mod status there, but seriously
Amakusa: these guys are clowns
Amakusa: and the reason they pull this shit off is because they treat a few guys really great
Amakusa: so those guys give them such shining regard and spin that they dont get many outspoken complaints
Amakusa: its crap
Amakusa: not that i expect anyone else to chime in on it
Amakusa: but ive said my peice
Byron Brauner: sorry messing with that game
Byron Brauner: I'll post in the morning..wanna get some shit together for it

After I posted in this thread:

Byron Brauner: ah Mono emailed ya
Amakusa: yea
Amakusa: he shouldnt be stuck facing that alone
Amakusa: isnt right
Byron Brauner: yeah I'll grab some info after I drop the kids off in the morn
Byron Brauner: try and get mithos on it to
Byron Brauner: I see soviet posted to
Amakusa: what he say?
Byron Brauner: basically "theres WERE issues (with reasons) but it's all in the past"
Amakusa: ahh yea
Amakusa: so much in the past that that guys still having issues
Amakusa: past and present, they blend so well
Byron Brauner: kinda shocked as he's been jerked around a couple times
Amakusa: freebee items maybe?
Byron Brauner: man their freebies are 9 times out of 10 CRAP jpop cd's they would NEVER be able to move by sales
Amakusa: yea i figured their freebee stuff was always crap
Amakusa: or defective
Byron Brauner: yeah they just send fodder they get for pennies I'm sure