Smithsonian And National Endowment For The Arts Ends Argument: Video Games ARE Art

[TonyTheTiger]

I'm confused. Are they saying that games themselves are art or that they contain art?

I don't think it's ever been an argument that they can contain art. If this display is nothing more than a bunch of drawings of Super Mario and some screenshots from Okami I don't think that says all that much about whether or not the entire package fits the bill.

[jb143]

I'm confused. Are they saying that games themselves are art or that they contain art?

I don't think it's ever been an argument that they can contain art. If this display is nothing more than a bunch of drawings of Super Mario and some screenshots from Okami I don't think that says all that much about whether or not the entire package fits the bill.

That's what I was wondering as well. "Chronicling the development of art in video games" isn't quite the same as calling video games art in and of themselves.

[Icarus Moonsight]

I'm guessing Ebert will not be attending the exhibit...

While I view some games as having art like qualities, I still can't think of them as "Art". Love and appreciate them as I do. Someone explain to me how Cabela's Billy Big-Mouth Bass and Deercide Fest 08 qualifies as art and I might be on the verge of shifting opinion. Oh, and the Smithsonian... You're not the Louve, get over yourselves.

[Bojay1997]

I'm guessing Ebert will not be attending the exhibit...

While I view some games as having art like qualities, I still can't think of them as "Art". Love and appreciate them as I do. Someone explain to me how Cabela's Billy Big-Mouth Bass and Deercide Fest 08 qualifies as art and I might be on the verge of shifting opinion. Oh, and the Smithsonian... You're not the Louve, get over yourselves.

I don't know that any of us want to restart that whole debate, but there are plenty of crappy paintings, movies, sculptures, etc...but that doesn't mean that their existence means that the medium itself is not capable of producing art.

[Icarus Moonsight]

True that. It's ungoodness to drudge that old bag up.

All that crap, postmodern nightmarish regalia... Yeah, that ain't art either I reckon.

[phreakindee]

I always thought the argument simple: art is art when enough (important) people say it's art. And being at the Smithsonian really helps that position. Just gets its foot in the door a bit more.

Is it on the same level as a Van gogh or even an ice sculpture? Whatever, who cares, comparing apples and oranges and in the end It's still fruit. And not everyone likes all fruit. So maybe Ebert won't like video games as art but that doesn't mean they're not. When it becomes acceptable that they're art, maybe we won't see Yar's Revenge next to The Scream, but it will happen I think.

[Ro-J]

Having lived in the DC area most of my life, I love the Smithsonian museums. It wasn't until I moved to Philadelphia 10 years back that I realized most museums actually CHARGED people admission.

I like how they're including the public in the selection of the games, should provide for a lot of debate.

[RCM]

I always thought the argument simple: art is art when enough (important) people say it's art. And being at the Smithsonian really helps that position. Just gets its foot in the door a bit more.

Perception can certainly become reality. But the gamer battlecry has always been a little off on this subject. It shouldn't be so absolute. We shouldn't be screaming "videogames are art," we should be asking "Are games capable of being art?" Are all films, paintings, music etc. art? And just what is art anyway? Is there some strict definition (there are several) we should adhere to, or is there some unique qualifier for art that's very personal?

And is Britney Spears or Megan Fox really more of an artist than Cliffy B?

[chrisbid]

I'm guessing Ebert will not be attending the exhibit...

While I view some games as having art like qualities, I still can't think of them as "Art". Love and appreciate them as I do. Someone explain to me how Cabela's Billy Big-Mouth Bass and Deercide Fest 08 qualifies as art and I might be on the verge of shifting opinion. Oh, and the Smithsonian... You're not the Louve, get over yourselves.

does quality come into the equation when deciding if something is art or not? i would say a painting of dogs playing poker is art.

should something like this be in the smithsonian? fine arts in the US have had to incorporate pop culture in order to get people to visit. look at all the symphonies playing video game and star wars music now. while there are trade offs, overall i dont think this trend is a bad thing

[kaedesdisciple]

Meh, call me when this means that the value of the SMB/DH carts go up...

[Aussie2B]

Yeah, I'll second that calling something "art" doesn't necessitate that it be good or worthwhile. Just spend some time on Deviant Art. :P

[LaughingMAN.S9]

I'm guessing Ebert will not be attending the exhibit...

While I view some games as having art like qualities, I still can't think of them as "Art". Love and appreciate them as I do. Someone explain to me how Cabela's Billy Big-Mouth Bass and Deercide Fest 08 qualifies as art and I might be on the verge of shifting opinion. Oh, and the Smithsonian... You're not the Louve, get over yourselves.

that would depend on how you define art dont you think?

i think this like most anything in life is open to interpretation, governed by the courts of both public and personal opinion.

of course to use the word "art" as a blanket term enveloping the entire spectrum in anything gaming related is not only egregious but incredibly presumptious, because not all games fall under the same umbrella much in the same way that not all movies do.

you wouldnt put dumb and dumber in the same pocket as you would eternal sunshine of the spotless mind or the truman show would you? likewise i wouldnt put metal gear solid in even the same universe as army men. but im sure there is some misguided soul out there who thinks army men was the ps1's singular magnum opus. who am i to argue?


i hate these pretentious art house film reviewers sipping their 20 cent coffees from 9 dollar cups, typing up reviews on on obscure criterion collection films no one has ever heard of on macbooks, using their sharp and signature "acid-tongued" prose for their blog that no one reads, using words like "trite", "non-conformist" and "contrived" in whatever hip new "anti-establishment" soho hole in the wall coffee shop, waving around their nyu film degrees/pyschological validations, believing with every fiber of their being, that somehow having the sundance channel makes their opinions on all things art, somehow more valid than yours.

"oh but i've seen everything jean luc goddard has ever made!"

wow really? GO FUCK YOURSELF, seven samurai sucked, a film being foreign doesnt automatically make it better and no matter what you want to believe, FIGHT CLUB IS NOT AN INDIE FILM!


i would also like to add...

that the mona lisa is a piece of shit, i dont care about the whimsical interplay of light and shadow and all that garbage, to me its just some stupid bitch in a room, i consider the watchmen & dark knight strikes again graphic novels to be some of the finest examples of literary art in history, but if i said that to a librarian, she'd probably tell me that alan moore is a douche and that ernest hemingway probably had sex with my mother.

point is, given that the word "art" is so mercurial and context sensitive, it shouldnt be taken so seriously when self appointed judges on all things art cosign it or not.

i personally define art as anything that can be perceived as being emotionally provocative, if beethovens 9th (an admittedly moving piece by conventional standards) is considered art of the highest order, then why can't the same be said of the wu tang clans enter the 36 chambers or nirvanas in utero?

art is subjective by its own admission, regardless of credentials, it should never be dictated, especially by a person who isnt involved or a part of the subculture. ebert is no authority on the matter and neither is the smithsonian. the smithsonian coming around and labeling it as such is great, but should in no way shape or define your views on it one way or the other. you all have the freedom to decide for yourself.


hideo kojimas personal view on gaming not being art is lamentable, especially considering metal gear solid and mgs4 are 2 of the best examples of gaming as art. i found both genre defining blockbusters to be 2 of the most moving, visually stunning, engrossing, cinematic and interactive expierences i have ever witnessed. but ultimately, he doesnt get to decide how i feel on it. the fact that its interactive shouldnt be reason to exclude it from being in the same company as picasso (another artist i think sucks), monet, charlie parker, the beatles, futura 2000, shakespeare or Dostoievsky.


moral of the story? art is just a word, it can be lent meaning, but only if the beholder wills it to have one, forever a product of the human condition, slave to our ever changing fickle nature

finallyyyyyy.......FINISHED!

[SplashChick]

seven samurai sucked

Stopped reading here, it's obvious to me you don't have any real perception of what art is. Something isn't automatically art just because someone says so, there are still standards that have to be lived up to. Just because you don't care about cultural history of foreign countries and hate reading subtitles doesn't mean the movie sucked or that it isn't art. It just means you don't care about it and aren't one to judge it.

[LaughingMAN.S9]

Stopped reading here, it's obvious to me you don't have any real perception of what art is. Something isn't automatically art just because someone says so, there are still standards that have to be lived up to. Just because you don't care about cultural history of foreign countries and hate reading subtitles doesn't mean the movie sucked or that it isn't art. It just means you don't care about it and aren't one to judge it.

you're doing your best to live up to the film buff stereotype i laid forward and i for one applaud you for that.

but you're mistaken in your inference.

where in my post did you get the impression that i dont care about cultural history of foreign countries? ARE all things FOREIGN automatically art then to you?


listen, my perception of art may not coincide with YOUR definition of art, let me clarify something for you...THERE ARE NO STANDARDS FOR ART TO LIVE UP TO. PERIOD. THE END.

i feel the rapper nas is the greatest contemporary artist of our time, you may not feel the same way, and i might even take a little offense if u tried to discredit hip hop as a viable artform to begin with. but if u dont feel its art, i cant stop you nor would i want to. you draw from it what you will, it doesnt mean that you arent qualified enough to gauge what art is, it just means that we have a different outlook on the subject, we're both right.


i probably could have saved us both a little time by pointing out that your arguement was self defeating in that you answered your own post with your 2nd sentence, but i got alot of time to kill and nip tuck doesnt start for another 3 hours



P.S. I love foreign and indie films, chan wook park is one of my favorite directors and im an avid fan of anime. i DO watch IFC and the sundance channel when i have down time, so i wasnt taking shots at people who do, only the people who do so and automatically think it makes their opinion worth more than mine.

the fact that i even know who da hell jean luc godard is should have hinted at me being at least a LITTLE knowledgeable about film. still doesnt make an art critic words any less hollow to me though, sowwy


p.p.s. seven samurai is still 3 hours of black and white garbage.

Protip: The background is a landscape, not a room.

woops....guess it really is art then

im gonna go eat an entire block of cheese now, wish me luck

[SplashChick]

you're doing your best to live up to the film buff stereotype i laid forward and i for one applaud you for that.

but you're mistaken in your inference.

where in my post did you get the impression that i dont care about cultural history of foreign countries? ARE all things FOREIGN automatically art then to you?


listen, my perception of art may not coincide with YOUR definition of art, let me clarify something for you...THERE ARE NO STANDARDS FOR ART TO LIVE UP TO. PERIOD. THE END.

i feel the rapper nas is the greatest contemporary artist of our time, you may not feel the same way, and i might even take a little offense if u tried to discredit hip hop as a viable artform to begin with. but if u dont feel its art, i cant stop you nor would i want to. you draw from it what you will, it doesnt mean that you arent qualified enough to gauge what art is, it just means that we have a different outlook on the subject, we're both right.


i probably could have saved us both a little time by pointing out that your arguement was self defeating in that you answered your own post with your 2nd sentence, but i got alot of time to kill and nip tuck doesnt start for another 3 hours



P.S. I love foreign and indie films, chan wook park is one of my favorite directors and im an avid fan of anime. i DO watch IFC and the sundance channel when i have down time, so i wasnt taking shots at people who do, only the people who do so and automatically think it makes their opinion worth more than mine.

the fact that i even know who da hell jean luc godard is should have hinted at me being at least a LITTLE knowledgeable about film. still doesnt make an art critic words any less hollow to me though, sowwy


p.p.s. seven samurai is still 3 hours of black and white garbage.



woops....guess it really is art then

im gonna go eat an entire block of cheese now, wish me luck

You really REALLY don't understand art, this is painfully obvious. Art is not art because some random idiot thinks it's good, nor is it not art because some moron says its 3 hours of black and white garbage. If there were no standards that art had to live up to, art exhibits around the world would be filled with random, meaningless garbage; your saying this is really just laughable.

[Aussie2B]

that the mona lisa is a piece of shit, i dont care about the whimsical interplay of light and shadow and all that garbage, to me its just some stupid bitch in a room

Protip: The background is a landscape, not a room.

[Rob2600]

the mona lisa is a piece of shit... to me its just some stupid bitch in a room

Wow. To quote Flack from April 18, 2005:

When I hear people say, "the Beatles suck", to me that's the same as saying "look at me, I’m an idiot." It's like walking up to the Mona Lisa and saying, "what's up with this bitch?"

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/show...813#post641813

[The 1 2 P]

I'm confused. Are they saying that games themselves are art or that they contain art?

Here's what they have initially planned:

Many museums have explored art inspired by video games, but this exhibition will be the first to examine comprehensively the evolution of video games themselves as an artistic medium. From the Atari VCS to the Playstation 3, The Art of Video Games will show the development of visual effects and aesthetics during four decades, the emergence of games as a means for storytelling, the influence of world events and popular culture on game development, and the impact that the games can have on society. It will include multimedia presentations of game footage, video interviews with developers and artists, large prints of in-game screen shots, historic game consoles, and a selection of working game systems for visitors to play. In addition, the public will be asked to assist with the selection of materials for the show by choosing the games that they feel best represent particular moments in the overall timeline.