what about the game play makes it sour?
what about the game play makes it sour?
Aetherbyte: PC-Engine and more homebrew
To Arkhan: Simple, because when you are looking to play RPGs, the DC is the last stemen anyone would ever atribute, to RPGs.
Lets be real, there are like a total of like 2 RPGs on the system(for argument sake, lets say 4 or so RPGs in Japan, that would still make it the system, with the least amount of RPGs), so yea I think that was a bad move.
It's not like the PS1 didn't sell in Japan(infact I'm pretty sure it sold much better then the DC), which is where all the RPGs from that generation ended up on, so it would've made more sense to release it on the PS1.
Yeah, I'd love to know why as well, as I remember Chrono Cross receiving all sort of praise upon release in the summer of 2000 (i.e. the "summer of RPG"). It garnered 10/10 across the board. Why is it (seemingly) despised now? Are extremist Chrono Trigger fans somehow behind this?Originally Posted by Arkhan
Here's a list of DC RPGs released in the US:
Skies of Arcadia
Grandia II
Evolution
Evolution II
Time Stalkers
EGG: Elemental Gimmick Gear
Silver
Phantasy Star Online
Shenmue (debatable)
Dragon Riders of Pern
Plus the aforementioned Record of Lodoss War. The DC only lasted, what, 2 years? In Japan the number is at least double that.
What on earth happened to this thread? When I posted in it, it was an intelligent conversation about rising costs of older RPGs. Now it's "Limt Breaks were innovative" and "
random game sucks and other random game is better"
Many answers were given some time ago. Funny people complain about threads goin off topic on here, but it seems like it happens more often than not.
My gaming blog retro/new...mainly TG/PCE based
http://turbomasters.blogspot.com/
What on earth happened to this thread? When I posted in it, it was an intelligent conversation about rising costs of older RPGs. Now it's "
Well someone shouldn't have said, Lufia 2 wasn't innovative/it was standard RPG fare(that has got to be one of the dumbest things I had heard someone say, and really, It's amazing he didn't get linched for that), I'm pretty sure that's what started the mess.
Last edited by Zoltor; 03-08-2010 at 08:39 PM.
This reminds me, I picked up Final Fantasy Chronicles (Final Fantasy IV and Chrono Trigger) for PS a while back, but haven't played it yet. Are the load times really as bad as I've heard?
Double? Just the Eldorado Volumes double the US list.
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It was divisive right from the beginning. I wouldn't be surprised if all the major publications were praising it heavily given how hyped up it was. I mean, they did the same with all of the Final Fantasy games, and we know how divisive Final Fantasy VIII is. But when you went to the players, it was obvious from the very beginning that plenty of people weren't happy with the game. I bought it myself at launch, expecting great things, and as much as I was trying to convince myself that it was awesome, I had to eventually accept that I wasn't enjoying it beyond the visuals and audio (and, actually, the experience of playing the game soured my experience of those; it took a couple years of distancing myself from the memory of playing the game itself to realize just how much I loved the art and music).
I don't think it's worth going into why the players are divisive because everybody has their own reasons. In some cases, it is as simple as it not living up to the original in the eyes of Chrono Trigger fans because it's just too different and lacking in features the original was known for (like combined techniques). But I'd say it's got problems on its own. A convoluted plot, stupid "accents" that make reading dialogue annoying, countless characters with barely any development, little uniqueness among characters' abilities, low difficulty, a level up system that makes just about everything but boss battles pointless, and so on.
Chrono Trigger has bad load times, but Final Fantasy 4 has load times just as fast as the SNES release.
I didn't like this either. People praise the ability to dodge battles, but it's only early in the game you can actually dodge battles. Most areas in the game there is no possible way to get past the battles.
Similar to Chrono Trigger, Crisis Core Final Fantasy 7 has the exact same flaw, except on Crisis Core you can actually repeatedly get in battles at the exact same spot without switching screens as well.
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Anyways. To get back on topic. I looked up some games I own on Ebay for the SNES.
The oldschool RPG market is skewed. Popular well known games that have no rarity what so ever sell more as complete mint condition copies than rare even somewhat unknown games.
Ogre Battle, while not super rare, is a somewhat rare(uncommon) game and sells less nowdays than a complete copy of Final Fantasy 4 or 6(don't forget the amount of rereleases and remakes these two games have had.) Lufia 2 is about as rare as Ogre Battle and goes for some insane prices when it's complete and it's easier getting a complete copy as there are no charts that come with it. Then there's Tecmo's Secret of the Stars which is very cheap even when it's found complete(another uncommon game.) Ys 3 is one that looks like people are trying to gouge the consumer because of the series where most complete ones are extremely high priced, others can be found as low as $15-20, even complete. Ys 3 is somewhat common/uncommon.
Now while you probably won't find Ogre Battle or Lufia 2 that much less than what you find them on Ebay, games like FF4 and FF6 can actually be found complete for cheaper if you give it enough time.
*edit*
Looked up Secret of Evermore. It's a common game and while some people try to price gouge, you can find some on Ebay for less than $30 complete. This game is an amazing game and definitely worth it though. So while this common game goes for cheap, it's overall better than the game it copied, Secret of Mana(opinion,) which goes for some very high prices when complete and it's not really rare either.
Last edited by kupomogli; 03-08-2010 at 10:04 PM.
Everything in the above post is opinion unless stated otherwise.
I wonder why the difference?
I'm too lazy to dig it out and confirm, but I'm pretty sure Lufia II did come with at least one map/chart thing.
because the DC is a failure. and to be honest, all fanboyism aside, by far the weakest of the hardcore gaming consoles to come in the last two generations, and the worst mainstream console to come in the 2 generations preceding that. (yeah, i went there)
almost all of DC's best games have to been remade/ported to other consoles where (gasp) a large audience can actually enjoy them. it is a shame that Lodoss war was not one of them.
In fact, Other than Power Stone, i cant think of any GOOD dc games, games worth that belong in every gamer's library, that havent been ported to a console that isnt a flop of epic proportions.
A lot of those ports weren't good, though. The PS2 version of Grandia II was atrocious. In most cases, the Dreamcast version is superior. Skies of Arcadia and PSO are better outside of Dreamcast, but they're the exception, rather than the rule. And there are still worthwhile games that weren't ported, like Jet Grind Radio.
And it's not exactly consistent to complain that Dreamcast games were ported to other consoles, and then also complain that Game X was not ported to another console.
lol Legendary Rep FTL!Zoltor's got some games to destroy.
Lufia 2 isn't innovative. OMG puzzles in the dungeons?! WHO'DA THUNK IT!
What did it do to innovate? I mean , I like Lufia 2 alot, but it sure didn't pave the way for more games like it. It came out in 1996. Everything that happened on the SNES happened before Lufia 2, lol.
Puzzles? Illusion of Gaia? Hellooooo?
A failure?euh. The remakes and ports sucked for the most part. The system did what the other systems did, and earlier to boot. It even brought the then-current arcade feel home, had HOTD2 w/ light guns, marvel vs. capcom, the mentioned RPGs, a ton of other stuff if you are into importing, and it's own handful of unique games. To say the console is a failure is stretching things. It's not like the gamecube did anything better other than marketing the console. Other then that the damn things practically a DC knockoff. and hell, the original xbox IS a frigging knock off. Right down to jamming 2 doohickeys in the controller, having 4 controller ports, and having built in internet connectivity.
What's the real difference between Xbox and DC other than timing?
DC has a way better library of games, and isnt a pizza boxed sized clunkerbox with a lame OMGh4ckerMatrix!!! color scheme.
oh, and Jet Set Radio Future for Xbox was the definition of horse shit.
Aetherbyte: PC-Engine and more homebrew
Here's a comparison.
Timing both entering and exiting the battle. When entering the battle I find there to be no difference in load times. When finishing the battle it's less than a second longer loading time on the PSX version to get back to the previous map. I'm too lazy to pull out both systems and really check multiple areas and menus etc, but from this video and when I originally played the PSX version, the load times aren't recognizable as being much different from the SNES version.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYrt_KnJyXg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8aa2IJjNF8
*edit*
For having such a legendary RPG rep, sure doesn't know much about RPG games. First this thread, then the Sega CD forum. Shining Force CD a remake of the Genesis version? Come on now.lol Legendary Rep FTL!
Next thing you know he'll be saying Tactics Ogre was on the SNES first and Final Fantasy Tactics was released on the PSP. Things that are actually correct you know?
-Powerstone(like you said.)
-Phantasy Star Online(DC,) Phantasy Star Online 1 and 2(GC)
-Skies of Arcadia(DC,) Skies of Arcadia Legends(GC/not much of a difference)
-Sword of the Berserk Guts Rage
-Dynamite Cop
-Carrier
-Resident Evil Code Veronica
-Dead or Alive 2
-Soul Calibur
-Shenmue
-Evolution 1 and 2(DC/if you want some average RPG games you'll never touch again,) Evolution Worlds(GC/both 1 and 2)
-Jet Set Radio
-Record of Lodoss War(Diablo clone for the interested)
-Grandia 2(not as good as the first but very good game.)
The system had a lot of great games. Once the system started to die, most of the best games were ported to other systems. 10 games on my list were ported(9 if you count Evolution 1 and 2 as a single game since that's what Evolution Worlds is.)
Last edited by kupomogli; 03-09-2010 at 02:12 AM.
Everything in the above post is opinion unless stated otherwise.
You really should try reading more and posting less. I already made a post in this very topic going into detail as to what Lufia II had that was different from the norm at the time, and the puzzles have been barely mentioned. It has a lot more to offer than just that.
Then I guess the Dreamcast must be a N64 knock off, right?hell, the original xbox IS a frigging knock off. Right down to jamming 2 doohickeys in the controller, having 4 controller ports, and having built in internet connectivity.
ALL consoles are Magnavox Odyssey knock-offs, kneel before Ralph Baer.
Yea exactly, the puzzles was just the icing on the cake, but evidently he ignored everything else that was mentioned.
Last edited by Zoltor; 03-09-2010 at 03:08 AM.
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