Atari 2600 Air Raid box found

[goatdan]

No, but for the most part, one would think that there would be SOME indication that it was old. Nothing remains the same way when it's released, no matter how well it is treated. There is always some indication, even diminute, that it's old. But this box looks only a bit worn, so unless the person is extremely picky about item condition, I find this hard to believe, specially when he said he had it as a little kid, which at that age not everyone will keep things pristine.

Depends -- my dad is a huge HUGE Star Wars collector. And even when I was young, I used to keep everything in pristine condition because I learned from my dad that if you did that, and you decided to keep it you'd appreciate having it nice, or if you sold it you would get more money for it.

I collect Ghostbusters figures and did as a kid. In fact, I asked my dad if the first one I got I should open or keep sealed! And I was like four or five. It got opened, but I very carefully took off the bubble that held it and still have the card in perfect condition today. All of the video games that I own are in the same condition today, regardless if they were 2600 games that I bought or NES games -- if they were new, they are more mint than any game I have ever bought used from anywhere else, period. So, again -- depending on the person, it's reasonable that this person kept it so nice.

Which is probably the #1 most WTF part of the whole thing. I, too, find it inconceivable that a large company would have a custom mold made for so few copies let alone a small rinky dink mom & pop operation. But if that's the case then where the hell did all the copies go? A full run of a game doesn't just vanish. Maybe there's a crap load over in China somewhere and a handful of copies randomly made their way over here. Not by specific corporate intent but rather just through ordinary person to person trade.

No, because if that was true someone would have found one overseas if they were way more common over there.

I really believe that these were sample games that they paid a lot to make the mold so they could make a ton of money after stores bought it. They did the mold to set their product apart and show that it was a serious thing. And then they made the cartridges and sent them to corporate buyers -- maybe 100, maybe 1000 copies.

After that happened, they never got enough orders to justify a run of the game for real. Most buyers threw the games out, but a few got saved, which are what pops up.

That's the only story that makes sense to me, but the fact it is such a WTF thing, as well as that no one knows, it will continue to drive tons of interest in this game above just about any other classic game out there.

[Bojay1997]

Compiling these lists IS part of the complexity.

It took many years to create them and there are still some 3,000 undiscovered foreign VCS carts out there to be listed.


Well, I'm examining and adding foreign VCS game cart, box and manual scans at a daily basis and it's amazing, almost scary, to see how many different cart types and label/box artwork there exist.

Sometimes it can be quite difficult to tell where a certain cart comes from.

By studying their artwork, serial numbers, release dates, AKA titles, etc. missing titles in uncomplete lists can be tracked down and sometimes their true origins can be determined by doing so.

It's truly a fascinating thing to do.

I can tell you more about it if you're interested.


- The exact plastics shape of the Air Raid cart is not found amongst other Taiwanese VCS cart releases.

- The game is not a simple (graphics) hack, like most Taiwanese and South American VCS cart releases, but offers a lot of non-stolen coding.

- Unlike any other Taiwanese VCS cart producing company, only one single game was ever released.

- It uses the NTSC color palette, but is technically speaking a PAL game, which is quite uncommon amongst Taiwanese VCS cart releases.

- The label artwork can not be found on other Taiwanese VCS carts, which (funny enough) is also very uncommon amongst Taiwanese VCS carts.

So it's not really an ordinary Taiwanese pirate cart.

8)

Just to be clear, the two unique things about it are that it has a different casing and the company that released it only released one game? By the way, how do you know the company didn't produce other games under other names in Taiwan? It seems like someone had to learn VCS programming which wasn't super simple. The other things while uncommon or rare to other Taiwanese VCS carts aren't unique. I'm failing to see how that differentiates this item and makes it worth $30K to a collector. It's not that hard to create a case (nor was it in the 1980s) and having held the Air Raid case in my hand, it doesn't actually feel that sturdy. So, can you perhaps shed some light on why this one item is now the most valuable VCS item by perhaps a factor of ten? Is it just completist collectors battling it out or is there something else?

[megasdkirby]

Is it just completist collectors battling it out or is there something else?

I believe it is this. Since a collector's (in most cases) is to obtain a complete set of something, they thrive on obtaining items that they need to accomplish this. However, and as I stated before, being desperate, or obsessive, drives a person to pay a ludicrous amount for something they need, even if the item is not worth it. An example of this is an AtariAge member who paid over $300 (I don't recall the exact amount, but it was unnecessarily high) for a CIB copy of "Tank Command" for the 7800, when said game (with time and patience) could be obtain for much less. Reason he paid so much was because "He got tired of waiting and he wanted it" (I could rephrase it as "Wanted it BADLY and did not want to wait). We all have been a victim of this, as I almost paid $600+ for a US Sonic for the SMS, but thankfully I lost at the last second.

The new owner has no desire to resell. His main purpose is to create a Atari 2600 museum.

That's what they all say. And at one point or another, it will sell.

[goatdan]

It's not that hard to create a case (nor was it in the 1980s) and having held the Air Raid case in my hand, it doesn't actually feel that sturdy.

Actually, to create a mass market projection mold, especially at that period in time, while not overly complex was and is not exactly a cheap proposal. Others have thrown out a cost of $10,000 for the mold alone. While I don't know if it would have been that expensive -- the ultimate product was made in Taiwan, afterall -- even if it was $5k to do, that is a MAJOR cost.

The person also had to make their own circuit boards for the games to fit into that mold.

Overall, even if it was only $5k to do both of these steps, that is still a huge startup cost for a game that seems to have sold less than 500 copies. That would be a $10 per cart price for the mold at the lower cost.

The game sells for so much in no small part because of the huge mystery surrounding it. Why invest the time and money into a custom mold if the game is not going to be mass produced? But if the game was mass produced, why have we never found more than a baker's dozen of them, and why don't other pirate carts or whatever turn up with the exact same mold, not something 'close' to it?

And yes, it's also a completionist thing.

[98PaceCar]

That's what they all say. And at one point or another, it will sell.

You seem dead set on believing this, but you don't have all of the information to make this statement. The only time Wonder sells games is when he gets a better condition version of something he already has or the few prototypes he's done runs for. Hang out at Atariage for a while and you'll learn this. His goals are not to make money with the game, he clearly doesn't need to buy/sell games to have the income he desires. He has stated many times that he wants to open a museum dedicated to the 2600 and this is an important piece to that puzzle. The value to him is not in resale and rather having a complete collection of something he enjoys and wants to share with others.

What people seem to be forgetting is that to some people, spending $30,000 is just as easy as spending $30. Whether or not the game is actually worth $30,000 is for each individual to decide. At this point in time, to the 2 top bidders of the auction, it is worth that.

[Rom Hunter]

Just to be clear, the two unique things about it are that it has a different casing and the company that released it only released one game? By the way, how do you know the company didn't produce other games under other names in Taiwan? It seems like someone had to learn VCS programming which wasn't super simple. The other things while uncommon or rare to other Taiwanese VCS carts aren't unique. I'm failing to see how that differentiates this item and makes it worth $30K to a collector. It's not that hard to create a case (nor was it in the 1980s) and having held the Air Raid case in my hand, it doesn't actually feel that sturdy. So, can you perhaps shed some light on why this one item is now the most valuable VCS item by perhaps a factor of ten? Is it just completist collectors battling it out or is there something else?

Like Pitfall Harry said on AA:

"When people start plunking down $10K or more for an Atari video game, I really doubt PAL vs. NTSC is much of an issue. Legitimate vs. Pirate Hack, or whose "Official Releases" the game is listed on (or doesn't appear on) probably doesn't amount to a hill of beans, either. Heavy hitter collectors are not bidding five figures on Air Raid because of its exhilarating gameplay. They are not coughing up that much dough for label art worthy of Leonardo da Vinci.

Air Raid is a bastard game. We all know that. Most of the code is stolen from Space Jockey, and the rest of the code adds nothing to make the game any more endearing. Men-A-Vision was a shady operation at best. The fact that no one has ever come forward to admit any connection to the company whatsoever, after all these years, is testament to its slimy underbelly. What, then, is the attraction to Air Raid? What makes grown men (if there is such a thing in the Atari collecting world) want to part with enough money to buy a new car to add it to their collection?

Air Raid has unmistakeable cachet! The blue T-handled cartridge has been at the eye of a storm of controversy for decades now. Each time a new copy of Air Raid has surfaced and sold on eBay, the game has commanded a higher price. And each time that has happened, the PAL vs. NTSC communities have gone to war on the message boards, bickering over which side Air Raid rightfully belongs. Ironically, each side wishes it belong to the other. The arguments over legitimate release or not rage right alongside. Nothing is ever decided. The camps split more decisively with each new iteration. Through the long years, uncertainty over the identity and classification of Air Raid has created such a polarizing rift in the collecting community that the rift itself has become a landmark in the history of video game collecting. Unending controversy has imbued the game with a mystique that transcends its already notable, extreme rarity. The story has grown larger than the game itself.

Tanman's Air Raid box IS the story. It answers questions collectors have debated over for decades. The game really is named Air Raid. The game really is a U.S. Release, albeit with a Taiwanese connection. Even if the authors of the printed text on the box cannot be trusted, its discovery and existence is nevertheless a windfall of new information (and new speculation) on the game we never had before, nor had any way of ever finding out.

The collector who ultimately owns the Tanman Air Raid box becomes the caretaker of a significant piece of Atari collecting lore. They will own not merely a "holy grail" rarity, but THE rosetta stone that unlocked mysteries that have confounded and divided collectors for decades. Such is the cachet of owning Air Raid. When you have $10K or more to toss down on a video game, cachet means a lot more than on whose "official list" the game is listed. Air Raid neither fits nor belongs on a list. It is a collection all on its own".

I quoted his words, because I couldn't have said it better.

BTW: there's a small change that the actual Air Raid mold will be found during the next few days.

If it really turns out to be the genuine Air Raid mold, no more than 25 carts were ever made.

8)

[tom]

Just to be clear, the two unique things about it are that it has a different casing and the company that released it only released one game? By the way, how do you know the company didn't produce other games under other names in Taiwan? It seems like someone had to learn VCS programming which wasn't super simple. The other things while uncommon or rare to other Taiwanese VCS carts aren't unique. I'm failing to see how that differentiates this item and makes it worth $30K to a collector. It's not that hard to create a case (nor was it in the 1980s) and having held the Air Raid case in my hand, it doesn't actually feel that sturdy. So, can you perhaps shed some light on why this one item is now the most valuable VCS item by perhaps a factor of ten? Is it just completist collectors battling it out or is there something else?

Maybe you just don't get it. Shall we leave it at that?

[Icarus Moonsight]

How could you tell that 25 were produced? I was thinking the other day that the mold might have been re-purposed from another plastic product or design/mold (possibly not even game related, like a plastic kitchen utensil handle, cover or something off-the-wall odd like that), hence it's unique features and character for a game case (O2 pull-tops excepted *inspiration?*).

If the production was extremely limited, then a full-on for mass production mold might not have been even used. Something inexpensive, not intended to be durable, also cheap and simple to fabricate. IDK what, but it seems more logical than the heavy investment for a low-print or sample/proto production.

[Rom Hunter]

How could you tell that 25 were produced? I was thinking the other day that the mold might have been re-purposed from another plastic product or design/mold (possibly not even game related, like a plastic kitchen utensil handle, cover or something off-the-wall odd like that), hence it's unique features and character for a game case (O2 pull-tops excepted *inspiration?*).

Funny thought.

"Hey, I still have an Air Raid union crusher from the eighties in my kitchen."

If the production was extremely limited, then a full-on for mass production mold might not have been even used. Something inexpensive, not intended to be durable, also cheap and simple to fabricate. IDK what, but it seems more logical than the heavy investment for a low-print or sample/proto production.

According to the owner of the mold, a first sample run of 51 parts (25 and a half cartridges) was made and that was it.

8)

[Bojay1997]

Maybe you just don't get it. Shall we leave it as that?

Maybe you should avoid discussion boards since you seem only capable of being critical of everyone else who doesn't share your narrow minded opinion about things. Many of us live in a less black and white world where we actually give thought to what we say, write and do. I actually have found this discussion to be very enlightening. I feel more convinced of my belief that Air Raid has no place in my collection, but I also have an understanding of how this item became a $30,000 rarity and why the purchaser may have wanted it so badly. It's too bad you have no ability to discuss things in a constructive manner. You might actually make a contribution to this site and the world.

[Bojay1997]

How could you tell that 25 were produced? I was thinking the other day that the mold might have been re-purposed from another plastic product or design/mold (possibly not even game related, like a plastic kitchen utensil handle, cover or something off-the-wall odd like that), hence it's unique features and character for a game case (O2 pull-tops excepted *inspiration?*).

If the production was extremely limited, then a full-on for mass production mold might not have been even used. Something inexpensive, not intended to be durable, also cheap and simple to fabricate. IDK what, but it seems more logical than the heavy investment for a low-print or sample/proto production.

There is a guy with some pretty specific info about the mold posting on Atari Age. I believe he said the mold cost $4,500 to fabricate. The story is starting to get very interesting.

[tom]

. You might actually make a contribution to this site and the world.

More so than you ever did so far.

[tom]

I know a few games did this, I'm just saying it was extremely rare. I don't mean to stir debate, I guess a conspiracy can be found in almost anything. Right now I'll give Tanman the benefit of the doubt.

If you know, why did you ask first if I knew any, which I did, and you sounded like there were none, which was of course, wrong.

[megasdkirby]

You seem dead set on believing this, but you don't have all of the information to make this statement. The only time Wonder sells games is when he gets a better condition version of something he already has or the few prototypes he's done runs for. Hang out at Atariage for a while and you'll learn this. His goals are not to make money with the game, he clearly doesn't need to buy/sell games to have the income he desires. He has stated many times that he wants to open a museum dedicated to the 2600 and this is an important piece to that puzzle. The value to him is not in resale and rather having a complete collection of something he enjoys and wants to share with others.

What people seem to be forgetting is that to some people, spending $30,000 is just as easy as spending $30. Whether or not the game is actually worth $30,000 is for each individual to decide. At this point in time, to the 2 top bidders of the auction, it is worth that.

Every person who I have ever known that claims that they will never sell have indeed sold at some point in their lives. I'm not referring to extras, but their collection per se. I've even met diehard collectors claim the same, and they have. So color me pessimistic about Wonder not selling. Unless he actually succeeds in creating a museum, I will maintain that it will sell at some point. It may be by him or via someone else, but it will sell. Now, if he does create the museum, I can see it not being sold, but until this happens, I'm not convinced he will not sell.

I hope another box is found someday, not to lower the value of the existing one, but to clarify whether it's legit or not (current box). Still, makes for a great discussion.

Only time will tell.

If you know, why did you ask first if I knew any, which I did, and you sounded like there were none, which was of course, wrong.

My head hurts!

How is everyone?

[g/\/\3r]

Th15 15 50 5tp1d. J5t p1 th3 gm3 0n n 3m1t0r.

[TonyTheTiger]

A $4,500 custom mold to produce two dozen cartridges. The deeper the rabbit hole, the stranger the tale.

If that's the case then this really may not be just some Taiwanese hack job, at least not an ordinary one. The only time anybody uses an unusual design is when A) there aren't any better/cheaper options or B) they want the product to stand out.

If Men-A-Vision really wanted Air Raid to be something big then I can imagine them forking over the cash for a special casing and shopping 25 copies around to see if they get any bites for a larger print run. That makes at least some sense.

The problem, though, is the box. You'd think that if they were going to try to make the game stand out on the shelf they'd have made the box special, not the cartridge nobody would see until they already bought the game. When Nintendo did the special gold Zelda cartridge they cut a hole in the box for good reason. Who decides to intentionally use a unique cartridge shape but then takes absolutely no pride in the box the cartridge is encased in? Misspellings, nothing that particularly stands out, and an all around shitty aesthetic make me question the logic behind it all.

[98PaceCar]

Every person who I have ever known that claims that they will never sell have indeed sold at some point in their lives. I'm not referring to extras, but their collection per se. I've even met diehard collectors claim the same, and they have. So color me pessimistic about Wonder not selling. Unless he actually succeeds in creating a museum, I will maintain that it will sell at some point. It may be by him or via someone else, but it will sell. Now, if he does create the museum, I can see it not being sold, but until this happens, I'm not convinced he will not sell.

I hope another box is found someday, not to lower the value of the existing one, but to clarify whether it's legit or not (current box). Still, makes for a great discussion.

Only time will tell.

I think in many cases, you are right. Most people will fade from console collecting and usually sell off what they have as they move into a new hobby or new phase of their life. Wonder is a bit of a different story though and I feel like his history as a 2600 collector proves that he's in it for the long haul. Couple that with the fact that he really doesn't need the money back out of a game like this and I think it's forever his.

It is a bit unfair to say that every person will eventually sell though. I know of many collectors that are long timers that never sell anything and likely never will, barring some tragedy that forces their hand. I can say that in the 13 or so years I've been collecting I've never sold anything that I didn't have at least 2 copies of and usually wait until I have 3 or 4 before I break down and sell. I've been offered some very nice cash for a few things, but like Wonder, it's not about the money for me. It's more about having a piece of hardware or game that I really want than having whatever cash I could get out of it.

A $4,500 custom mold to produce two dozen cartridges. The deeper the rabbit hole, the stranger the tale.

If that's the case then this really may not be just some Taiwanese hack job, at least not an ordinary one. The only time anybody uses an unusual design is when A) there aren't any better/cheaper options or B) they want the product to stand out.

If Men-A-Vision really wanted Air Raid to be something big then I can imagine them forking over the cash for a special casing and shopping 25 copies around to see if they get any bites for a larger print run. That makes at least some sense.

The problem, though, is the box. You'd think that if they were going to try to make the game stand out on the shelf they'd have made the box special, not the cartridge nobody would see until they already bought the game. When Nintendo did the special gold Zelda cartridge they cut a hole in the box for good reason. Who decides to intentionally use a unique cartridge shape but then takes absolutely no pride in the box the cartridge is encased in? Misspellings, nothing that particularly stands out, and an all around shitty aesthetic make me question the logic behind it all.

Not really unusual at all. A lot of places will order a test run of parts before committing to a full order. We do it all the time at work. Those test parts will end up being used in prototype or even early release units instead of just scrapping them and eating the cost. If Men A Vision was as small an organization as it appears, I'd imagine they would have used every part they got.

What strikes me as odd is if the 25 manufactured number is correct, somewhere near 50% of the carts manufactured are accounted for. That number seems very high to me as I would have expected most of these to have been thrown away or lost over the years. Even with things like the Pepsi Invaders cart (125 made), only about a fifth or so (25+) of those have been accounted for over the years. It's possible Air Raid survived better than others, but that seems unlikely. I think there were more than 25 made, but until the mold or other info is found we may never know for sure.

[tom]

What I wanna know is, how much did ebay get from this auction?

[Zap!]

If you know, why did you ask first if I knew any, which I did, and you sounded like there were none, which was of course, wrong.

I heard there were a few, but I had never seen any and wasn't 100% positive, so I wanted to know for sure. I do appreciate the info. Any NTSC releases with no instructions?

[Icarus Moonsight]

Funny thought.

"Hey, I still have an Air Raid union crusher from the eighties in my kitchen."


According to the owner of the mold, a first sample run of 51 parts (25 and a half cartridges) was made and that was it.

8)

Slap Chop: Air Raid Edition

That's a conclusion, or a what... I was more interested in how that was derived or inferred. Documentation, 51 notches on a bedpost, etc.