Nolan Bushnell is back at Atari!

[Jorpho]

Does it? Please tell this to David Beckham, Victoria Beckham, Katie Price (aka Jordan) and such ilk.

The obvious response there is, do you think those people actually wrote the books with their names on them?

[Astrocade]

Nolan Bushnell is the reason we're all here right now. Whether you love him or hate him, he was THE man behind Atari, and Atari was THE deciding catalyst for the home videogame movement. Al Alcorn, Steve Jobs, Ted Dabney, et. al- yeah, those guys were all important players in the piece as well. But Bushnell was the guy that brought it all together, and to pretend for even one second that he was just a cog in the machine is to reveal one's ignorance regarding the history of videogaming.

Bushnell is not a saint however. And he has helped to foster a persona that is built on equal parts fact and fiction. But I tire of reading "inside stories" by people with an axe to grind over someone that cheated them or screwed them over thirty years ago. Boo-hoo. He's sitting on the Board of Directors over at Atari/IG and you're pissing and moaning on a website where your "star status" is not questioned. You shook hands with Bushnell one time or you helped to program the third dungeon on the seventh level of "Patty-Cake-Surprise" back in '83- so fucking what?

I ask these sore losers the same thing they ask of Bushnell- what have YOU done in the last thirty years? Edit a fanzine? Sink thousands of dollars into your collection? Big fucking whoop. You're no more an authority on the subject than anyone else here who has read the Steve Kent book.

Reading over that thread at Atari Age reminds me of why I don't frequent those boards anymore. A bunch of whiny-ass nerds with way too much time on their hands bitching about how they were "screwed over" in some way or fashion. Get over it. All of your subsequent failures in life can not be attributed to Nolan Bushnell or anyone else but you.

Love him or hate him, Bushnell is the reason we're all here today. There's three guys you should thank every time you boot up a console- Ralph Baer, Nolan Busnell and Al Alcorn. Everyone else was just a supporting character, including these pitiful "journalists" with an axe to grind over something Nolan Bushnell probably never did in the first place.

You don't have to worship at his altar, nor should you overestimate his importance to the world of gaming. But to pretend that gaming culture would even remotely have developed to the point to which we have arrived at today WITHOUT Nolan Bushnell... don't kid yourself.

[jb143]

After reading over this thread I have only 1 question to ask. Is there a pic(or animated gif) of Captain Picard face-palming while eating popcorn?

[Emperor Megas]

But to pretend that gaming culture would even remotely have developed to the point to which we have arrived at today WITHOUT Nolan Bushnell... don't kid yourself.

You don't actually believe that, do you? That if Nolan Bushnell was never born that video games wouldn't be as popular today? Because the industry couldn't possible have developed with someone else at the reins several decades ago? IDK, that sounds like some Dr. Emmet Brown type shit, man. It sounds like you're kidding yourself.

[Astrocade]

You don't actually believe that, do you? That if Nolan Bushnell was never born that video games wouldn't be as popular today? Because the industry couldn't possible have developed with someone else at the reins several decades ago? IDK, that sounds like some Dr. Emmet Brown type shit, man. It sounds like you're kidding yourself.

Of course I do. The same way in which I don't think cars would be where they are today if it wasn't for Henry Ford or aviation would have developed as it did had the Wright Brothers never existed. Someone MAY have streamlined automobile production one day. Someone MIGHT have built a working airplane some time between then and now... but they didn't.

Nolan Bushnell did it. That's not wishful thinking, brother, that's history. I don't give two shits either way about Nolan Bushnell, but he's a freaking pioneer in his field. Why people refute FACT in favor of personal misgivings about someone they don't even know, I'll never understand.

Hitler was a dick, but I really don't see anyone denying that he created the Volkswagon...

[Bojay1997]

Of course I do. The same way in which I don't think cars would be where they are today if it wasn't for Henry Ford or aviation would have developed as it did had the Wright Brothers never existed. Someone MAY have streamlined automobile production one day. Someone MIGHT have built a working airplane some time between then and now... but they didn't.

Nolan Bushnell did it. That's not wishful thinking, brother, that's history. I don't give two shits either way about Nolan Bushnell, but he's a freaking pioneer in his field. Why people refute FACT in favor of personal misgivings about someone they don't even know, I'll never understand.

Hitler was a dick, but I really don't see anyone denying that he created the Volkswagon...

All of that is pure speculation. Perhaps cars would have been safer or aviation more advanced if someone other than Henry Ford and the Wright Brothers came along. Just because someone did something doesn't mean that others wouldn't have if the first to do something never was born. Maybe video games would have been even more inventive or had a larger appeal if someone other than Bushnell had been involved early on.

Your reference to Hitler is perhaps the most offensive thing I have read on these boards. That "man" destroyed much of Europe and killed 50 million people. He was a lot worse than a "dick". He also didn't create the Volkswagen. That was Ferdinand Porsche.

[tom]

The obvious response there is, do you think those people actually wrote the books with their names on them?

Does it make a difference? I think not.

[Astrocade]

All of that is pure speculation. Perhaps cars would have been safer or aviation more advanced if someone other than Henry Ford and the Wright Brothers came along. Just because someone did something doesn't mean that others wouldn't have if the first to do something never was born. Maybe video games would have been even more inventive or had a larger appeal if someone other than Bushnell had been involved early on.

Your reference to Hitler is perhaps the most offensive thing I have read on these boards. That "man" destroyed much of Europe and killed 50 million people. He was a lot worse than a "dick". He also didn't create the Volkswagen. That was Ferdinand Porsche.

- only on DP will someone claim that the Wright Brothers inventing the airplane and Henry Ford modernizing the automobile is "pure speculation".

As for my Hitler quote, if you found that offensive then I recommend staying off teh interwebs. Hitler played the same role in developing the Volkswagen that Bushnell played in developing the Atari. Neither one (the car or the console) would exist without the creator. You can downplay their involvement all you want, but the fact still stands that you shouldn't deny each of their contributions based simply on your own personal dislikes/grudges.

[Ed Oscuro]

Does it? Please tell this to David Beckham, Victoria Beckham, Katie Price (aka Jordan) and such ilk.

Ed, I'd suggest you research properly and find out how many people on this planet are writing books without any knowledge of journalism, before trying to post something of small intelligence.

Good job on having scratched out a copysheet back in the day, those are Pulitzer-prizewinning credentials right there.

To put an American perspective on it, you claiming that having written a fanzine (they are called FANzines and not PROFESSIONAL JOURNALISM for a reason) makes you more credible than somebody who has directly interviewed ALL the players involved (rather than just copying what you see in Atari Age or on TV)...

...would be a bit like somebody telling Bob Woodward he was wrong about Watergate because they supported Richard Nixon's political campaigns back in the 1940s.

Do you just accept everything somebody tells you because they are "the authority?" Clearly you do. We already went down the Nazi route; I'm not going there again, but you ought to take a hint. Doing real historical research demands being skeptical instead of bathing in false memories and lies swallowed whole.

In any case we already knew you're just a tough-talking a blowhard coward who, as usual, isn't worth two seconds of anybody's time.

How you continue to evade being banned is a mystery to me.

In any case - good book, will certainly be looking to get a copy, and of course I'll also be interested to see if Mr. Bushnell has anything to say; it's his right after all (though he has had that chance and squandered it).

[Bojay1997]

- only on DP will someone claim that the Wright Brothers inventing the airplane and Henry Ford modernizing the automobile is "pure speculation".

As for my Hitler quote, if you found that offensive then I recommend staying off teh interwebs. Hitler played the same role in developing the Volkswagen that Bushnell played in developing the Atari. Neither one (the car or the console) would exist without the creator. You can downplay their involvement all you want, but the fact still stands that you shouldn't deny each of their contributions based simply on your own personal dislikes/grudges.

Your information about Volkswagen is a straight up lie. The company and the car designs were around for many years before Hitler took power. Porsche started designing vehicles for Daimler Mercedes in 1906. Volkswagen benefitted financially from German government money in the 1930s and certainly designed a number of military vehicles as well, but that doesn't change the fact that the products and designs for what became the Beetle already existed and would have existed whether Hitler came to power or not.

[tom]

Do you just accept everything somebody tells you because they are "the authority?" Clearly you do. .

Not me, PingBluejeans though, you got the wrong man here, convince him. To him, Curt IS the authority.

As for 'taking a hint' from you? You gotta be kidding.

[Ed Oscuro]

Do you just accept everything somebody tells you because they are "the authority?" Clearly you do. .

Not me, PingBluejeans though, you got the wrong man here, convince him. To him, Curt IS the authority.

Good job screwing up a simple quote. Striking attention to detail. This is exactly why we ought not trust you over people who have cross-referenced their quotes, going back and forth between the warring parties to make sure they aren't being biased.

Some guy who can't even keep a copy and paste straight is definitely not going to top that.

Bushnell isn't satan, nobody's saying that; but he's not a god capable of no wrong, either. In fact, being reminded of his long string of failures (which naturally wouldn't be important running a fanzine) just confirms that he's only human - but also bad at (or for) business.

[tom]

Good job .

Thank you very much.

[Astrocade]

Your information about Volkswagen is a straight up lie. The company and the car designs were around for many years before Hitler took power. Porsche started designing vehicles for Daimler Mercedes in 1906. Volkswagen benefitted financially from German government money in the 1930s and certainly designed a number of military vehicles as well, but that doesn't change the fact that the products and designs for what became the Beetle already existed and would have existed whether Hitler came to power or not.

OK, you win. I now inhabit your bizarre fantasy world in which things didn't happen the way that they actually did. Hitler had no hand in the development of the VW. Henry Ford was some guy that no one has ever heard of. Nolan Bushnell had nothing to do with developing video games.

I'm growing kind of bored with this topic anyway, and it's obvious that when presented with fact that you can't refute, you just make shit up to suit your agenda. If Nolan Bushnell really was the tool that the two or three guys in this thread claim him to be, it seems there would be some evidence for your argument instead of "He was a mean butthole! NYAH!"

Here's something else for you to refute: the sky is blue. Discuss.

[Ed Oscuro]

Hitler was almost as good as getting Volkswagens to the people as Bushnell was running a business.

Hitler may have sketched something in 1932 that looked a bit like a teardrop, but cars with a teardrop, low-drag design were appearing at least as early as 1934 in other countries. These designs probably influenced Ferdinand Porsche as much as the rather mysterious Hitler sketch, since they were actual vehicles praised throughout Europe. Even if they were not influences on Porsche, they were contemporary, successful designs that may have taken off like the Bug if only had there been more focus on cost-effectiveness (which of course Hitler was right to emphasize).

I don't want to get all "Hitler made a basic mistake!" (like the art critics) but the proportions of the sketch (which I think sports the traditional Hitler handiwork) seem too back-heavy to blame on artistic proportion. The vents for the rear engine and the obvious luggage compartment in the front are good touches, but it seems mostly cosmetic. Nice sketch but it actually had to be done, and cars out by 1934 already had proportions closer to the Bug - and then there is the matter of the legendary Ferdinand Porsche actually laying down the blueprint lines.

Of course, the Nazis had everybody pay into a fund for Volkswagens before and during the war, a fund that seems to have been lost during or after the war.

[Emperor Megas]

- only on DP will someone claim that the Wright Brothers inventing the airplane and Henry Ford modernizing the automobile is "pure speculation".

I thought that he was saying that it's pure speculation to suggest that these things wouldn't have progressed at the same (or perhaps a lesser or greater rate) had they not been done by the those particular people. I don't think he was saying that the Wrights and Ford didn't do what was mentioned, but rather, that it doesn't mean it wouldn't have happened anyway if they weren't the ones who did.

To say they none of us would be 'here' playing video games if it weren't for Bushnell, or any small group of individuals, isn't fact; it's speculation. There's really no way to prove something like that; you'd need a flux capacitor or something.

But all of this is beside the (my) point. I'm still wondering exactly why the pro-Bushnell camp feels that his appointment at Atari is "fantastic, great, wonderful, etc.". I don't think anyone here who's expressed delight of this news has touched on that yet.

[Astrocade]

I thought that he was saying that it's pure speculation to suggest that these things wouldn't have progressed at the same (or perhaps a lesser or greater rate) had they not been done by the those particular people. I don't think he was saying that the Wrights and Ford didn't do what was mentioned, but rather, that it doesn't mean it wouldn't have happened anyway if they weren't the ones who did.

To say they none of us would be 'here' playing video games if it weren't for Bushnell, or any small group of individuals, isn't fact; it's speculation. There's really no way to prove something like that; you'd need a flux capacitor or something.

Well, that's kind of my whole point. We are all sitting here playing video games, and video games have evolved from an actual history that includes, for better or worse, contributions from Nolan Bushnell. To say that someone else might have done what Nolan Bushnell accomplished is pure speculation, and it's a weak and irrelevant basis for denying the accomplishments that the man actually achieved.

Taking the Ford example once more, the crux of the anti-Bushnell camp's argument rests on fantasy. Had Henry Ford never existed, someone may or may not have accomplished what he did. But because Henry Ford was a flawed man, it is still not permissible to deny his contribution to the world of engineering. You can't invent history (as Bushnell himself is wont to do) based simply on the observation that someone doesn't *deserve* to be acknowledged because they may or may not be an asshole. Saying that Bushnell had absolutely nothing to do with Atari or videogaming is as big a lie as Bushnell saying he had never heard of Ralph Baer or been to that fateful trade show.

But all of this is beside the (my) point. I'm still wondering exactly why the pro-Bushnell camp feels that his appointment at Atari is "fantastic, great, wonderful, etc.". I don't think anyone here who's expressed delight of this news has touched on that yet.

I agree with you there. I don't know exactly why his current position has sparked so much controversy pro and con. I seriously doubt that he is going to revolutionize the world of gaming in any major capacity from here on out. If he was to take an idea like the Flashback and make an honest to goodness NEW Atari console that didn't suck- well, I'd pay tickets to see that show. I strongly feel that this was all a big glad-handing PR stunt.

[Jorpho]

Does it? Please tell this to David Beckham, Victoria Beckham, Katie Price (aka Jordan) and such ilk.

Ed, I'd suggest you research properly and find out how many people on this planet are writing books without any knowledge of journalism, before trying to post something of small intelligence.

The obvious response there is, do you think those people actually wrote the books with their names on them?

Does it make a difference? I think not.

Of course it makes a difference, since it means they were in all likelihood actually written by people who knew something about journalism!

[Voliko]

It's simple to see, that it is all about the name.

[jb143]

- only on DP will someone claim that the Wright Brothers inventing the airplane and Henry Ford modernizing the automobile is "pure speculation".

Well, depending on how you interpret airplane, there were plenty of people competing for the title of the first around the same time of the Wright Brothers. I'm inclined to agree with both of you though. Of course we have no idea how things would have turned out if any of the key players (of anything) had not been present. Chaos theory would suggest that it would be much much different. Could be for the best, could be for the worse, there's really no point in trying to guess.