Classic Gaming Vs Emulation

[Emuaust]

Sorry if this thread has been done before and if so please lock/merge.

In my Gameroom with all my consoles I also have a PC connected with Sega Saturn style gamepads that is used only as an emulation box. If anyone has seen my room they would know Im far more keen on collecting actual hardware and games then emulation, but its nice to have it there to try stuff out.

After spending some time with it on the weekend, probably the first time in 12 months really, I got wondering and thought Id ask the question, Do you fins any consoles that are greatly improved in your eyes through emulation.

I say yes and it may have something to do with being a PAL gamer but to me I prefer NES emulation over the real thing, all of the games I have that I play via emulation look far more impressive and run faster/smoother. Having native RGB scart for a lot of consoles gives the optimal picture quality for most of my consoles and having an emulator spit a nes image out at 480p is a vast improvement over my av connected Toaster.

Another issue I suppose is relevant to me as a PAL gamer is the fact that some PAL nes titles are horribly slowed down, like Mega Man 2 and playing via a good nes emu fixes this issue.

Another console I have to add is the N64 and once again for pal issues but also I find the console blurry as hell to the point I get headaches from playing it, via emulation with a nice sharpening up, its much more fun, playing games that make you feel ill isnt my idea of a good time.

Id be interested to hear others opinions, as a collector I much prefer using actual hardware and games, there is just a "feel" to it that I love, but there are consoles like the 2600 and the Nes I get more enjoyment out of emulating, is this the case for others?

[Dangerboy]

Sort of depends on the situation, though my reply isn't true emulation to a degree.

I like playing the Wii DLC NES games because they look sharper. I also love playing PSX on the PS3, because Lego issues here and there aside, a lot PSone games look amazing in HDMI.

[Ze_ro]

Having native RGB scart for a lot of consoles gives the optimal picture quality for most of my consoles and having an emulator spit a nes image out at 480p is a vast improvement over my av connected Toaster.

Honestly, I kind of feel the opposite. RF connections and such aside, a lot of games were programmed with the limitations of the system in mind, including the video quality. The blurring effect rounds out the pixels, in a way that sometimes looks better... and some higher end games take advantage of dithering effects to do cheap transparency which ends up looking terrible through an emulator.

Of course, a smart-ass would point out filters like Scale2x, and whatever you want to call this... but it seems kind of silly to be doing this after the fact.

Ultimately, I like the "authenticity" of sticking actual plastic cartridges into a machine, and holding the proper controller... even if that means I occasionally have to blow the dust out of a cartridge, or solder a broken wire in my controller.

--Zero

[Emuaust]

Ze_ro, I couldnt agree more, as I state, there is just something that I cant put into words that makes playing the real thing fun and having 4000ish games shows I have a passion for this very thing, but to me emulation does improve the Nes experience and as I state, this might be due to playing PAL consoles.

Maybe its time for me to go NTSC Nes.

[Matt-El]

I kinda used to have a thing about playing specifically on the console and using the specific games with it, but now i don't care really.

But the biggest disadvantage to emulation is not everything works exactly how you want it. That's emulation in a nutshell. Works as best as the programmer of the emulator wants it to work or is able to make it work. Like you can't play Starfox 2 on any old emulator, only one specific version. And one emulator displays graphics not quite the same as another. or there's a version problem with different variations of roms in mame, or whatever. Lots of stuff gets in the way of enjoying things fully, but it all depends on your perspective.

Convenience? Nostalgia? Collector craze? Anything can make a person go one way or another. I lean toward convenience nowadays.

[Rickstilwell1]

I usually enjoy emulation on the PC more for the handheld systems. Not having such blurry screens, harder to see screens or battery life sucking makes the games a bit more enjoyable. The one that I really care about is Sega Game Gear as it had a huge library of fun games and there was no device to play it on the TV in full color with sound coming out the TV speakers. I'd say Game Boy / Color / Advance is more enjoyable on a Super Nintendo or GameCube with an adapter but Game Gear has nothing to bridge the cartridges except software emulation. Some emulators like Dega even have the abilty to make the sound better instead of pure 8-bit. Sometimes it's fun to hear the original sound, but the upgraded sound is a bit more pleasing to the ears.

[ReTrO-pLaYeR]

Emulation (on computers) is never a good thing, and doesn't represent how it really feels when experienced on a television set and game controller. And, there's also a few issues on certain computers concerning the speed and such other factors- meaning it might not run at the frame rate you'd normally see. I'm just a purist, but I do on occasion emulate games if I just want to see what they're like.

[kupomogli]

I emulate all my older systems on the PSP. I just don't have the room to have multiple systems hooked up and don't like unhooking and rehooking up, there's the portable factor I like, and some systems, such as the Sega CD, I have games, but no console.

[Berserker]

Emulation (on computers) is never a good thing, and doesn't represent how it really feels when experienced on a television set and game controller.

While I somewhat agree with the second part, I couldn't disagree more with the first.

Emulation has enriched classic gaming almost beyond measure. It allows us to play gems that we either probably or positively wouldn't have the chance to experience otherwise, and it ensures that you, my young classic gaming enthusiast, will never have to go without that which you love for the rest of your life.

I mean, I usually prefer playing on a physical console too, but I also think the people who've worked tirelessly on developing emulation for the last decade or so to the point that it's at now deserve at least a little respect for busting their asses to preserve our passion.

[JSoup]

I used to have a thing about emulation (mostly after I started using it). It bothered me that I was playing a game without physically having it, made me wonder if playing the game 'counted', if you understand my meaning. Then I decided that it didn't matter, as I was mainly emulating games that are damn near impossible to get, so I owning the ROM was just about as good as I was going to get.

These days, I emulate anything pre-PS1.

[goldenegg]

I'm a huge retro gaming fanatic and also a huge fan of the current state of PC/MAC based emulators. I've always liked emulation, but many emulators were laking in many regards, especially those not designed to be cycle-accurate. Timing of the game in many cases could be off ever so slightly, but the overall impact (i.e. feel) of the game was noticeable.

Today, there are extremely solid, cycle accurate emulators for all major consoles pre-PSX. These emulators can go as far as perfectly emulating the flicker and slowdown experienced when playing a game on the original hardware. Playing games on them using a good game pad (I prefer the Saturn type USB pads) can provide an experience that is extremely close to playing on the original console.

Unfortunately, you don't find these emulators ported to other systems such as the PSP or Wii. This is usually due to the large amount of x86 assembly used and/or much higher system requirements over less accurate emulators.

Looking at my own collection of consoles and vintage computers, I find myself using emulation more than going to the original hardware. Why? Convenience. It's simply not possible for me to have everything set up all the time. Doing something like playing a little Bruce Lee on the C64, then Conan on the Apple II and then Ninja Gaiden II on the NES would never happen for me without emulation.

I realize this is a topic that splits the community. The one thing that bothers me are the people who hate emulation, simply because they feel it somehow minimizes their collections. My message to those people? Get over it. I won't argue that there's something 'special' about holding an actual cart in your hands, plugging it in to a system and playing on original hardware. Fact is, that's simply not what everyone wants. In a lot of cases, people just want to play the games. For that, emulation provides a level of accessibility that's makes these games available to a wider audience.

[BetaWolf47]

The pro-hardware arguments here have already summed up my opinion pretty well. For me, it really depends on my mood.

Like Ze_ro said, most older games/systems were made with the limitations in mind. Compare a sharp, pixellated, unfiltered screenshot from an emulator to a smooth, soft picture on the real console and you'll see the difference easily.

Filters like hq2x and Super Eagle don't help much either, in my honest opinion. In most cases, the game is better off looking pixellated. This is because instead of smoothing out pixels, it just makes them round, giving the game an unnatural visual feel. If you're going to use filters, see if your emulator features an NTSC filter or interpolation.

As for sound, I'm very, very nitpicky. Very few emulators have near-perfect sound. It's usually only the top 2 or 3 emulators for each system that compare to the real deal here.

I could go on, but it already feels like we're beating a dead horse here.

[PresidentLeever]

I can sort of understand the smoothening/blurring argument, but since I have a modern TV and good cables, the games end up looking very pixelated anyway. It's especially noticeable in later, western Genesis games. There are good emulator filters for those games though, not smoothening but blurring ones.

I'm definitely in the pro-emu camp, I've found some of my now favourite games that way and it made me get into shooters, a genre I previously disliked.

[BetaWolf47]

You just reminded me of a funny argument someone posted towards me on another forum. When someone said, "Classic games look like crap on HDTVs!" I said that most people still have old SDTVs around. I'm dead serious on this, the person called me selfish for thinking that people should keep SDTVs around, and adhere to "MY" requirements. He was serious about it too.

[skaar]

The controller is the most important thing for me - I can play NES half the devices in my home, but can only use the controller in a limited few of them.

Emulation's biggest curse is the what I call MP3 syndrome - so many games, so little effort, and no desire to stick to one title. "Aw dammit died again." = Savestate, toggle game, come back to it later (maybe)

I just can't stick with games that way. Which is why I hit next on my ipod way too much.

[Robocop2]

They both have their places really. There is no emotional substitue for playing a game on the original hardware at least to me. It definitely is the more authentic way to experince a given game and arguably better under most circumstances. That having been said; the option of emulation does open up alot of opportunity for people to experience games that they would not otherwise have intrest in trying or capability to purchase. Air Raid; as subpar as the game may be; is a good example of a game few would otherwise have the opportunity to experience without emulation.

There is less emotional involvement with having just a ROM image as a file on your computer vs. tracking down the cart/disc and adding it to your collection. One can build quite a substantial collection of images with minimal effort. I was able to collect the entire 2600 library in a matter of minutes and save them to a folder on my computer for example. The collector in me prefers owning hardware and software; The gamer in me is okay with having roms and emulators for the occasional play session as a supplement to my collecting efforts.

From a preservation perspective emulation is the future as eventually physical media will degrade and be lost. Maybe not for some time but eventually. Without some way to preserve the games they will be lost so it does serve that purpose I suppose though there are always the flash carts but that wouldn't address the loss of hardware.

[PresidentLeever]

You just reminded me of a funny argument someone posted towards me on another forum. When someone said, "Classic games look like crap on HDTVs!" I said that most people still have old SDTVs around. I'm dead serious on this, the person called me selfish for thinking that people should keep SDTVs around, and adhere to "MY" requirements. He was serious about it too.

Well, hopefully that was just a dumb kid talking but I do see this kind of attitude around gamers my age as well (24). In this particular case it's hard to blame people though, what with the absolute massive hype around HD. In my country there was even a public announcement from the government (through their TV stations) to make people go out and buy HD TVs for when they went digital.

[JSoup]

The controller is the most important thing for me - I can play NES half the devices in my home, but can only use the controller in a limited few of them.

I forgot about this. I have the same problem. I used to run emulators from my PC, but it's a pain to play an SNES game with a keyboard and it's a hassle trying to find a controller compatible with my rig.

Which is why I now run all my emulators on the Wii, through Homebrew Channel. The Wiimote and Virtual Console controllers are good for just about all your retro needs.

[BetaWolf47]

I'm confused at that. Windows-wise, I've never had a problem finding an emulator that supports run-of-the-mill USB controllers. Compatibility was never an issue really. The hard part is finding decent USB gamepads.

[JSoup]

I'm confused at that. Windows-wise, I've never had a problem finding an emulator that supports run-of-the-mill USB controllers. Compatibility was never an issue really. The hard part is finding decent USB gamepads.

It's mostly because my PC was old as hell when I started learning about emulation. It made finding compatible parts difficult.