Women Remain the Ignored Audience In Gaming [Slashdot]

[Aussie2B]

I'd like to know just how they define "games tailored to their needs and preferences". And why it's believed that certain game design can be targeted to women as a whole, as if they all share a like mind, while male gamers are viewed as all having different tastes and preferences (if you've ever made or replied to a topic asking "What games would my girlfriend/wife like?" without sharing or asking about the woman's interests/experience, you're guilty of this).

If this means more games bathed in pink, centered around fashion or shopping or whatever, no thanks; I'll keep playing my "man games".

[Gameguy]

I'm kind of surprised there would be a difference, I would think just making a good game would appeal to just about everyone under most circumstances.

Why are Mario games so popular? You're playing as a fat Italian plumber who battles turtles in a magical land while riding a cute dinosaur, it's kind of the opposite of games like Duke Nukem which have a macho man blasting everything while womanizing as he goes. Yet Mario is still more popular. Remember the games aimed specifically towards men? Custer's Revenge, The Guy Game, Leisure Suit Larry, Rapelay, etc. Those all suck and nobody likes to play them, at least most people don't like them. It's pretty much the same thing with most games aimed at women.

Think of movies. There's the stupid movies made to appeal to certain genders but they don't really hold up, you've got the mindless action movies for the men or mindless romantic comedies for the women. The stuff with actual plots is what wins the awards and gets remembered as really popular films. There's The Adventures of Robin Hood with Errol Flynn, tell me if that's a film for men or women. There's sword fights, some stunts, yet some romance too. It's pretty much neutral. Same with The Princess Bride or any of the Harry Potter stuff, you can't really say they're meant for one gender specifically.

There is a bit if a difference in what each gender likes to do, but you can't really compensate for that by altering your products too much. It's like baking, is that considered to be equally popular between men and women? Not really, though there's nothing wrong with men baking. Look at shows like Cake Boss, men bake and it doesn't seem odd yet I don't think most men like to bake. No company is making Chuck Norris bakeware to increase sales to men, it just won't work.

[Snapple]

Although women gamers are a lot more common these days, I find the "50%" statistic to be very dubious.

Unless you're counting Farmville to be part of video games, in which case fuck the survey.

[The 1 2 P]

How much less could they care, exactly?

They just don't care....period. I've never heard them complain that their favorite games didn't have ads in Cosmo(or whatever their favorite magazine is) or show up during commercial breaks of Desperate Housewives(or whatever their favorite shows are). It's all irrelevant to them because they just want to game and alot of their favorite games are ones that aren't marketed towards them at all(like Gears or COD).

[Rob2600]

Desperate Housewives

see my next post...

[Cornelius]

Think of movies. There's the stupid movies made to appeal to certain genders but they don't really hold up, you've got the mindless action movies for the men or mindless romantic comedies for the women. The stuff with actual plots is what wins the awards and gets remembered as really popular films. There's The Adventures of Robin Hood with Errol Flynn, tell me if that's a film for men or women. There's sword fights, some stunts, yet some romance too. It's pretty much neutral. Same with The Princess Bride or any of the Harry Potter stuff, you can't really say they're meant for one gender specifically.

I think this is the point, though. The industry is wondering how it can make the video game equivalent of a chick flick. You are right that this won't necessarily result in a good game, just as most chick flicks are soon forgotten, but they do make a lot of money.

The real problem I think is that there is still a stigma of this being an anti-social pursuit. I'm no expert, but it seems to me that in general women are more social creatures than men, so that perception really hinders getting women started.

[Icarus Moonsight]

I heard recently that the majority of Otaku in Japan are now female.
Be careful what you wish for.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

... Custer's Revenge, The Guy Game, Leisure Suit Larry, Rapelay, etc. Those all suck and nobody likes to play them, at least most people don't like them. It's pretty much the same thing with most games aimed at women...

Not to de-rail the topic, but Lumping the Leisure Suit Larry series in with socially repugnant software like Custer's Revenge and Rapelay is a bit harsh.

There's nothing in those that you wouldn't find in any R-Rated movie comedy, and generally there's far more satire in those games than there is real nudity or sex.

Also, there wouldn't be 8 entries in the series if people "didn't like to play them".

[Rob2600]

Desperate Housewives

photo taken at the Digital Press store in Clifton, NJ 6/28/08

[Sailorneorune]

I heard recently that the majority of Otaku in Japan are now female.
Be careful what you wish for.

If this is indeed the case, now is a good time for Phoenix Wright anime.

Also speaking as a female who likes games, I really don't care if we're swamped with ads geared towards us or if a developer decides to make an interactive romantic comedy. (A game like that would probably suck, anyway.) I enjoy games that are fun. Mario, Sonic, Zelda, Metroid, Animal Crossing, Pokemon, Phoenix Wright, Professor Layton... just to name a few. I was there when the industry was oversaturated with "mascots with attitude" games, and I'm now enduring the oversaturation of the industry by "revenge of the brown shooter" games. "Girl games" such as Imagine: Gold Digger (not a real title... yet) stink up the portable market. Annoying trends do not appear to be going away any time soon, so all we can do is vote with our wallets. Give me Portal 2 and Sonic Generations over Desperate Housewives any day.

[Aussie2B]

How are they defining "otaku" there? In the Western way of "someone who is obsessed with anime/manga/whatever product from Japan" or in the proper Japanese way of "a creepy person obsessed with those things that never leaves home and probably has mental problems"? A lot of people in the West wear "otaku" as some sort of badge of honor, but it literally means "your home" and is a negative thing in Japan.

[Sailorneorune]

I was thinking the definition "insane fans who have no problem spending $100 on a figure, and thus get anime franchises tailored to them and them alone because they have more money than brains". Now that I think about it, I'd rather not have something like Gyakuten Saiban whored out to people who will pour tens of thousands of yen for the Super Deluxe Limited Edition Shirtless Edgeworth with Kung-Fu Grip (only 200 pieces made!), because anything that comes out of pure otaku money usually isn't worth a shit (see Heaven's Lost Property, Those Without Wings, or any other pandering based-on-an-eroge show that Funimation or Sentai has picked up in the last 3 years).

(I like my forums like I like my coffee - bitter and off-topic.)

[portnoyd]

I agree with mike_the_red. From my perspective, those titles are definitely aimed at women.

Achika, who used to post on these boards and is my wife, who has a complete DC collection among several thousand other games even before we got married, in recent years has played more of the "women oriented" games mentioned before. She has played through all 3 Cooking Mama DS games, is hooked on those Hidden Mysteries DS games and is almost up to date on all of the Lego titles. All fare that would be categorized as vagina friendly.

She used to be like Aussie2B in her choices of games but she just gravitated away. Seeing how horrendous FF13 was while I played it went a long way towards her swearing off Japanese RPGs altogether. She does still play select mancore games - she tried Dragon Age (hated it), is going to start LA Noire shortly (this was a no brainer as she watches Law & Order like Lindsay Lohan snorts coke) and plays DJ Hero. However, she mostly tends to more casual gaming.

I don’t think it’s a case of her becoming more aligned with the “women’s market” this article claims to be on the down swing. She’s always had pink systems and always wanted pink systems. Cute things were always fair game. It’s just that for me as a guy, I just don’t feel the hook that all that stuff clearly has for her.

Speaking of a hook, can’t not mention that she does have 5 level 85s in WoW and her main has 164 pets. Pets! WoW's version of women oriented gaming.

[skaar]

I think for the most part the gaming industry's attempts to target games at women have been about on par with the film industry's attempts to target the "urban" demographic in the 70s.

And sometimes just as sad. (or offensive if you're the type to be offended by stupidity)

So what's the word for female "blaxsploitation"?

[portnoyd]

So what's the word for female "blaxsploitation"?

Vaginateering?

[Gameguy]

I think this is the point, though. The industry is wondering how it can make the video game equivalent of a chick flick. You are right that this won't necessarily result in a good game, just as most chick flicks are soon forgotten, but they do make a lot of money.

It probably would still bring in money like those chick flicks do, and some of those films can be good. Licensed games seem to bring in money too though people think most of those also suck.

Not to de-rail the topic, but Lumping the Leisure Suit Larry series in with socially repugnant software like Custer's Revenge and Rapelay is a bit harsh.

There's nothing in those that you wouldn't find in any R-Rated movie comedy, and generally there's far more satire in those games than there is real nudity or sex.

Also, there wouldn't be 8 entries in the series if people "didn't like to play them".

I mostly included Leisure Suit Larry as it wasn't as bad as the obvious Custer's Revenge or Rapelay and plenty of people would tell me why those other adult games weren't major sellers besides being aimed at men(those are pure trash). Still Leisure Suit Larry was never as popular compared to Mario or Sonic games and it's mostly a series viewed today with cult status at best.

I personally hate R-Rated comedies so maybe that's why I dislike the series, I just never got into them. Same with Two and a Half Men, I hate that show. Just write a few cheap sex jokes and everyone laughs. I don't understand why this type of humour is so popular.

[portnoyd]

I personally hate R-Rated comedies so maybe that's why I dislike the series, I just never got into them. Same with Two and a Half Men, I hate that show. Just write a few cheap sex jokes and everyone laughs. I don't understand why this type of humour is so popular.

Because America, in general, is pretty stupid.

[allyourblood]

I personally hate R-Rated comedies so maybe that's why I dislike the series, I just never got into them. Same with Two and a Half Men, I hate that show. Just write a few cheap sex jokes and everyone laughs. I don't understand why this type of humour is so popular.

I couldn't agree with you more!

My wife plays a few games -- mostly racing and CivRev, but occasionally fighting games too -- and she scoffs at the "games tailored to women" thing. The big budget titles being produced today are quite unisex. Just because your game doesn't star a "strong female lead" doesn't mean that women can't derive just as much enjoyment from it.

One thing I'm sick of is the amount of flag-waving and moaning over games with females sporting "perfect" figures, running around in skin-tight outfits. Reality check folks: Most games star men with perfect figures in skin-tight outfits. That isn't really a realistic representation of the average male gamer, either. There's a lot of oversexualization and fantasy at play on both sides of the fence.

As mentioned before, people will vote with their dollars. There's no need to go around trying to force a female-centric game on people. If female gamers are such a large demographic now (supposedly outnumbering males), it's pretty obvious they're finding plenty of games to enjoy on today's market, without any needless pandering and focus-grouping.

[Letiumtide]

It's not really games for girls that is the issue so much as games that exclude girls. There are many MANY gender neutral games out there that don't really lean one way or the other, or if they do it's only slightly to one side. RPGs are often this way, Platformers, etc also tend to stay gender neutral.

Exception is generally taken when games lean heavily on the male spectrum with a "no girls allowed" sign more or less hung on the game case. Generally this has little to do with the male lead being manly, but more to do with the women being hyper sexualized. Men will cry "but men are sexualized too!" but not in the same way. You never see a male character that is obviously being sexualized in the sense that they appear receptive to sex. Skimpy clothing, sexual poses and even sexualized facial features (mouth open, heavy breathing, blushing, big lips) are all subtle visual cues that indicate that somebody is interested in sex. Features you never see on men, but are dominant for women in video games.

Men seem to say that men are over sexualized, but really it's just what is considered heroic traits. For men, these traits include broad shoulders, slender waist and hips, large legs and arms, and thick hair.

It's not exactly fair, but nobody really thinks about it in that way.

Also I would not put Other-M Samus Aran as a strong female character. She is a very, VERY weak character who very strictly follows orders as she is told, which is ridiculous because she's a bounty hunter. There has been a ton of controversy on her character writing being sexist.

I didn't mean to trail into a mini-rant here, but there is more out there to think about than "games for girls" which is really the problem with what's seen today as girls and gaming, it's really just the wrong approach to the whole thing.

Guys and girls aren't THAT different when it comes to what games we like, the only difference is that women will sometimes shy away from games that have sexualized women in them. Not because they don't like to play games.

[allyourblood]

You never see a male character that is obviously being sexualized in the sense that they appear receptive to sex. Skimpy clothing, sexual poses and even sexualized facial features (mouth open, heavy breathing, blushing, big lips) are all subtle visual cues that indicate that somebody is interested in sex. Features you never see on men, but are dominant for women in video games.

Because, typically, those aren't cues that men use to convey that they "appear receptive to sex". Those are female traits, used to attract males. And just as typically, the brash, gung-ho, tough guy attitude, along with poses that accentuate a male's toned physique are quite often what men use to attract females, sexually, and this is more than apparent in the majority of video games with male leads.

Just because men don't express themselves sexually the same as women, doesn't mean that those cues aren't being exhibited in video games, ad nauseum. They are. By default, men are visually more subtle when it comes to physical attraction, or even fashion. Commonly, women wear flashy outfits that accentuate their gender's features, much more often than men. Games reflect this, for better or worse.

Men seem to say that men are over sexualized, but really it's just what is considered heroic traits.

My wife tends to agree with me on this: it just so happens that these heroic traits you speak of also tend to be those which women find visually appealing and, if they're so inclined, stimulating. You saying "really, it's just what is considered heroic" seems like an attempt to brush aside a valid complaint leveled by more than a few males.

It's not exactly fair, but nobody really thinks about it in that way.

Actually, they do. While each gender may not necessarily seek the exact same things when thinking of sexually appealing traits in the opposite sex, ask how many women are physically attracted to baggy, unrevealing clothing, an out-of-shape physique, or even baldness, and no one will even have to guess at the answer.

Women are on average, simply sexier than men, and they dress accordingly. Games turn the mirror back on society. Both genders' sexual traits are amplified in popular media. Let's not downplay one in favor of another.