Museum post not related to sticky.

[TVs Hasselhoff]

This message will appear in other forums to generate a response. I'll let the admins decide if it should be consolidated.

Many of you don’t know me or recognize my user name, so you may not want to give much attention to what I’m about to say. Still, others may recognize the subject of this diatribe and will give it a moment of your time to see if it contains any value. Either way, I need to say these things because it is too easy today to hide in an electronic “social” background, clicking “like” buttons and twittering, sating our conscience long enough to enjoy another episode of The Daily Show or South Park.

Digital Press has begun a fundraiser to launch a history museum for videogames. You have probably seen the post and already know this, but I don’t think the scope of this news is really sinking in with the Digital Press audience, in particular, and the general gaming community, at large. There are two items of significance that need to be highlighted about this project, one fact, one philosophy, once illustrated, will hopefully redirect the apathy that seems to be the overall response to the current fundraiser.

First, the crew at Digital Press has been providing a means of gathering, communication, and historical and commercial relevance to classic gaming for over 20 years. Every idea they’ve put forth as a “wish list” they’ve made happen. “Let’s put together a fan-zine that will allow us to highlight our favorite classic games, interview the founders of the industry, and provide a center of communication for other classic gamers.” The Digital Press magazine was launched, and though sporadic in its distribution, has been showing up in collectors’ mailboxes for over twenty years.

An idea the Digital Press team made happen.

“Let’s put together a pricing guide the way WE would like to see a pricing guide. Rate the games. Judge the rarity. Provide a description of the game, including minutia like catalog numbers, disparities in packaging and product, etc. Make the lists as complete as possible, and make sure we include AS MANY systems as were produced during those early years.” The Digital Press Guide has not only had multiple editions launched, in various spiral-bound and published versions, but supplements to these “bibles” have been provided to keep them as up-to-date as possible. To this day, no one has provided a database as comprehensive as these guides. That is a fact, not opinion.

An idea the Digital Press team made happen.

“Let’s put together a website and forum to not only store all this information we’ve been gathering on classic gaming, but also to allow classic gamers to meet and talk about their passion, no matter where in the world those gamers may live.” The Digital Press website, through several server changes, provides the classic gamer an almost limitless resource of information regarding everything, from the Fairchild to the 3DS. Images, screen captures, ROMS, emulators, scans, pricing and rarity guides, sound clips, and forum discussions… all for free! To say you are a classic gamer and NOT be a member of this website would make you sound foolish.

An idea the Digital Press team made happen.

“Let’s open a game store where we can sell classic games, and not just used PS1 games, but a store that can meet the demands of the classic gamer. A store where enthusiasts can meet on a regular basis, find the things they are looking for to complete their collections, and talk to knowledgeable store staff about classic and modern gaming.” The Digital Press store has been a running success in New Jersey for several years now, despite tough economic times. You don’t need to buy a thing to enter this store, but you’ll be hard-pressed not to walk out without something. NAVA meets once a month, with active trading, discussions, and store tournaments (usually with free food and prizes awarded). The store can provide you with an original Odyssey 2, a new generation NES, or the latest copy of Madden NFL 2xxx. This store has gained such popularity that it has been featured in the news, mentioned on international forums and magazines, and was even the setting for a Capital One commercial.

An idea the Digital Press team made happen. (I must also emphasize the additional sacrifice of Joe Santulli on this endeavor, as he QUIT HIS JOB to make this store a reality. Years of planning and savings went into the launch of this store. A man who put everything he had into something he believed in.)

“Let’s put together a convention where classic gamers can get together to talk, trade, meet industry giants, and just have fun with other enthusiasts.” Classic Gaming Expo has been a recurring (ok, semi-recurring) endeavor for quite a while now. Its popularity has not only been recognized by many of the industry founders, but it led to exhibitions at E3 and PAX. Guest speakers, rare collectibles available for purchase and auction, and trade material that provided something for the collector of any level.

An idea the Digital Press team made happen.

The harping on this first point of “making it happen” is just that… making it happen. Digital Press has a proven track record of putting forth an idea that contributes to the classic gaming community, then making that idea a reality. They have held true to their promises, and beyond that, they haven’t proposed ideas they felt were untenable. To Digital Press, the idea of a history museum is not fantasy, not a matter of “if only…”, but an idea that can happen because of the industry leadership that is participating in this project, the enthusiasm of the collecting community, and because of the antiquities they can access to populate this museum. Look at the past exhibitions Digital Press has put together, look at the board members taking part in this launch, then ask yourself why can’t this happen.

My second point, and it won’t be as belabored as my first point, is one of future preservation. I’ll be blunt. Those of us who were there for the beginnings of video gaming are getting old. More importantly, many who created and contributed to the foundation of the industry are leaving us. We need more than just magazine clippings and a few re-told tales of burying cartridges in the desert to remind us of how all of this began. The basic idea of any museum is to provide a third party repository, hopefully objective, to house items of importance for display and study. The museum Digital Press is proposing goes beyond the sideshow attractions that the Smithsonian and others are currently planning or (poorly) executing. This is a museum that will house contributions from the likes of Atari, Activision, Electronic Arts, as well as the men and women who were the blood and sweat of those early days. It is something that will remain after the creators of Digital Press have passed on, and it is something that will remain for future gamers and collectors. It’s not meant to sound dreamy and weepy, but the philosophy is sound. We need to remember the past so we can see how we progress towards the future. This museum that Digital Press is proposing will store and display as many items as attainable and imaginable relating to the video game industry.

These points are what need to be stated and understood. These are the reasons why this museum is a good idea, and a workable idea. These are also the reasons why I’m so distressed at the lack of response by our community. We see a few hundred people click “Like” on the museum posting, yet only a couple of dozen backers step in to help. Are we really that content with one-click activism and 140 character prose that the need to exert ourselves further seems like a burden? I know times are tough. I just went through a home purchase and I’m still paying off bills from several months of unemployment, but I made some kind of contribution. If you look at all the things you get from the internet for free (including your porn), look at all the things Digital Press has provided to you for free through their website, then ask yourself why can’t you contribute $5 to this. Believe me, there are enough of you out there that $5 donations add up quickly. And remember, the $30,000 goal is to show other backers that there really is interest in this project. You’ve heard the phrase, “Vote with your dollars.” That is what is happening here. If Digital Press meets its goal, that is the signal for the big players to take notice.

You may think I’m out of line for saying these things, but considering all the things Digital Press has contributed to classic gaming over the past 20 years, $5 means nothing as a way of saying thank-you. There are less than 60 days to make this happen. $5 gives you a lot of bragging rights on opening day, when you can turn to someone and say, “I made this happen.”

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Truth.

I think that it also wouldn't be a bad idea if we could mobilize and bombard the popular "gaming news" sites like Kotaku, 1UP, IGN, etc. via their "news tip lines" or direct emails to the editors about the fund-raising efforts going on.

Make mention in your correspondence that these are the guys that run CGE and who had a very noteworthy showing at this years E3.

A simple news story run on their news/RSS feeds could spread the message like wild-fire and get people interested that might not otherwise ever hear about this project.

I've personally done that, so far it's not netted me any results or responses .... but I'm just one guy. As a community we could probably shake things up and get some news out there.

[portnoyd]

While there is nothing false about this post regarding the history of DP, it ignores one fact - at least from the perspective of these boards.

Look at the past exhibitions Digital Press has put together, look at the board members taking part in this launch, then ask yourself why can’t this happen

These boards are not the forums they were five years ago and they are miles away from what they were when it was switched from ezboards in 2002.

Daily posts are down. Way down. Server problems have had an effect but the community just isn't growing, it's shrinking. Posts in the most popular forums barely reach the second page after a day. In the past, you'd be looking at twice that. Things that keep the community together - like the 12 Days of DP Christmas - have withered away until this past year when they didn't even happen.

We have lost a lot of good posters (Where is Capt Wrong? Sylentwulf? RetroYoungen? Atarigirl?). Some have trailed off, some moved permanently to other forums like NintendoAge (Qixmaster being by far the worst loss to NA). Even Joe himself rarely makes a post outside the Events & Gatherings forums. While his obligations to the store take priority, his presence is really not known to new members within the past few years and it was a presence that drove these forums to the maximum.

The people who made it happen in the past are gone and the community is suffering in general. If you're looking to do this, this is not the place to be petitioning for help.

[TVs Hasselhoff]

What I'm more amazed at is the amount of bitching I've already encountered when posting this speech on other sites.

"Why don't you post a link to payment? Why didn't you think of that when writing this speech? What am I supposed to do?"

"Posting is down at Digital Press. You should post elsewhere."

If the numersous mentions of Digital Press can't give you a clue, then go to the Digital Press website and take a look. If I post a link to kickstarter, I get accused of spam. If you can't do a google search, then I think what I mention in my writing about one-click activism is true.

If this is the wrong post, then copy and paste the speech where you think it will matter. Better yet, make your own post where it will matter. I'm sorry if you feel defeated at a low posting count on these boards, but if you think there is a better place to bring up this discussion, then post it there. This negativity is not what is needed right now, and you know you can be more productive than that.

[GrandAmChandler]

Agreed 100% with Portnoyd.

<digipress> well. i guess it's time to blow it all up and start over

[RCM]

I'm all for a dedicated museum run by guys who love this stuff and know their shit, but aren't they kind of ignoring other well-funded places already established (This, for example: http://www.icheg.org/)?

I'm not trying to shit on the guys or anything as we've been cool and they (Joe and John) even appeared in a film I've been working on. I'm just interested in a real business plan before I pledge any money or ask anyone else to. I want something like this and WE NEED something like this, but I want it to be an everlasting monument to what we all love. And more importantly I want it done right. I'm not saying they won't do it well, it's just that I've only seen goals and no detailed, concrete strategy and tactics to meet them.

Regardless, good luck.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I'm all for a dedicated museum run by guys who love this stuff and know their shit, but aren't they kind of ignoring other well-funded places already established (This, for example: http://www.icheg.org/)?

I'm not trying to shit on the guys or anything as we've been cool and they (Joe and John) even appeared in a film I've been working on. I'm just interested in a real business plan before I pledge any money or ask anyone else to. I want something like this and WE NEED something like this, but I want it to be an everlasting monument to what we all love. And more importantly I want it done right. I'm not saying they won't do it well, it's just that I've only seen goals and no detailed, concrete strategy and tactics to meet them.

Regardless, good luck.

I don't see any information on ICHEG's site that detail how financial donations are or will be utilized, and in my past experiences providing donations to museums or historical preservation organizations I've rarely ever seen comprehensive details of how funds will be utilized (at least not in the forefront). We know the rough outline of what they intend to do - With the broad strokes being - get a space in the Silicon Valley area that is the Museum proper, get transportation materials to make the collection mobile as needed, and then build and operate it similar to how other interactive museums/collections are, perhaps even better than (however that may be).

I think that it's safe to say that Joe and Co.'s efforts in the past have been successful enough to warrant faith in donating, but ultimately how or what you invest is your own decision.

If you're unsure, I'm sure that if you engage Joe, John or Sean directly that they'll be happy to explain how the initial funding will be utilized and what their future plans are.

That aside, the apparent bitterness that the on-site community appears to be exhibiting towards a call for support makes me very sad.

[portnoyd]

I don't see any information on ICHEG's site that detail how financial donations are or will be utilized, and in my past experiences providing donations to museums or historical preservation organizations I've rarely ever seen comprehensive details of how funds will be utilized (at least not in the forefront).

I do know that they paid me $7,000 for my grey NWC. I think the safe bet is they are amassing items to fill the museum out with the funds they have.

That aside, the apparent bitterness that the on-site community appears to be exhibiting towards a call for support makes me very sad.

It's not bitterness, it's the cold truth. These are not the same forums that TV's Hoff described in his speech. Expecting the same community spirit from years past is a fallacy. I'm not saying the museum won't happen; I'm not saying you will not get support. What I am saying is you will not get the level of participation and interest that has been seen for other past initiatives on DP. The community is just not there anymore.

[RCM]

I don't see any information on ICHEG's site that detail how financial donations are or will be utilized, and in my past experiences providing donations to museums or historical preservation organizations I've rarely ever seen comprehensive details of how funds will be utilized (at least not in the forefront). We know the rough outline of what they intend to do - With the broad strokes being - get a space in the Silicon Valley area that is the Museum proper, get transportation materials to make the collection mobile as needed, and then build and operate it similar to how other interactive museums/collections are, perhaps even better than (however that may be).

I think that it's safe to say that Joe and Co.'s efforts in the past have been successful enough to warrant faith in donating, but ultimately how or what you invest is your own decision.

If you're unsure, I'm sure that if you engage Joe, John or Sean directly that they'll be happy to explain how the initial funding will be utilized and what their future plans are.

That aside, the apparent bitterness that the on-site community appears to be exhibiting towards a call for support makes me very sad.

The difference being we aren't donating to an established museum. They are, for all intents and purposes, building this from scratch. You're confirming one point exactly: we know the broad strokes. What I'd like to know is how they intend to truly create and maintain this thing. 30K aint going to do it, which I believe they acknowledge. I guess as a potential contributor, however small, I'd like to know because I care.

I haven't observed much bitterness towards the project, but my reasonable questions along with clear support of the idea shouldn't be construed as such. But these questions deserve to be asked.

[Kid Ice]

While I strongly agree with Don's points I have not noticed any massive apathy. Joe's post went up a few days ago and IIRC the deadline for donations is September. Is there a desperate need for funding at this point? It appears the fundraising is just getting under way.

These boards are not the forums they were five years ago and they are miles away from what they were when it was switched from ezboards in 2002.

The web is not what it was nine years ago either. Come on.

I don't see a strong connection between the forums and the fundraiser.

I look at it this way.

2000 DP = the DP zine

2005 DP = the DP forums

2010 DP = the DP store

The forums simply aren't the center of town any more, at least not how I see it.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

It's not bitterness, it's the cold truth. These are not the same forums that TV's Hoff described in his speech. Expecting the same community spirit from years past is a fallacy. I'm not saying the museum won't happen; I'm not saying you will not get support. What I am saying is you will not get the level of participation and interest that has been seen for other past initiatives on DP. The community is just not there anymore.

I'm not sure what the presumption is ... that forum members that were not a part of the community ten years ago will not have any interest/desire/ability to support such a cause or that the whole of the community ten years ago would have somehow immediately rocketed the cause to it's goal within a period of 7 days ... but whatever it is, it's pretty short-sided IMO and whatever the reasoning ultimately is, people being critical of/standing in the way of the progress of this cause for any reason (even just via straight-shooting "why bother?" type pessimism) makes me sad.

[TVs Hasselhoff]

I think one of the moderators needs to retitle this thread to the "Reasons not to donate to the museum." thread.

If a business plan is what you need, then ask Joe. If you cannot get the information you need from the Kickstarter page, the Digital Press site, or the museum page, then call someone at the store or shoot Joe or John an email. It's that simple.

I think asking about a business plan is a good question, but I'm not hearing anyone asking Digital Press about it.

All I'm hearing are more reasons to sit on one's hands and do nothing. If you think it's important, follow up.

I'm not going to sugar-coat my posts concerning some of the negative responses I'm seeing from friends of Joe and John on this subject. There shouldn't be reasons NOT to donate beign posted by members of this community. These aren't strangers asking for money, and they aren't guys that don't have a proven track record.

And 17,000 titles at New York? Seriously. Joe has more than that in his store. The wealth of items that have been displayed in Las Vegas, New Jersey, PAX and Los Angeles are just the tip of the iceberg, and far exceed what is displayed in New York. Graph paper for the creation of Sim City? BFD.

[GrandAmChandler]

I think one of the moderators needs to combine all of these threads that are duplicate into one thread.

Fixed.

Do we really need the same post in both forums? C'mon.

[TonyTheTiger]

What I'd like to know is how they intend to truly create and maintain this thing. 30K aint going to do it, which I believe they acknowledge.

From what I understand, if 30K can be raised by September that's the baseline goal for getting major investors involved. It's a courtship method to bring in the big guns.

[TVs Hasselhoff]

Fixed.

Do we really need the same post in both forums? C'mon.

My post stated that if the moderators wanted to combine, that is fine. My multiple posts were to reach other threads that some people don't look at. Not everyone reads Classic and Modern and Events threads. Some haunt one or two forums and nothing else.

I left the decision to combine up to the moderators.

[RCM]

From what I understand, if 30K can be raised by September that's the baseline goal for getting major investors involved. It's a courtship method to bring in the big guns.

I don't see any mention of that on their page, but could be mistaken. But if that's the case their strategy is tried and true.

"Initially the funds raised through this Kickstarter project will be used to make our collection more mobile and give it a permanent home."

[Bojay1997]

I think one of the moderators needs to retitle this thread to the "Reasons not to donate to the museum." thread.

If a business plan is what you need, then ask Joe. If you cannot get the information you need from the Kickstarter page, the Digital Press site, or the museum page, then call someone at the store or shoot Joe or John an email. It's that simple.

I think asking about a business plan is a good question, but I'm not hearing anyone asking Digital Press about it.

All I'm hearing are more reasons to sit on one's hands and do nothing. If you think it's important, follow up.

I'm not going to sugar-coat my posts concerning some of the negative responses I'm seeing from friends of Joe and John on this subject. There shouldn't be reasons NOT to donate beign posted by members of this community. These aren't strangers asking for money, and they aren't guys that don't have a proven track record.

And 17,000 titles at New York? Seriously. Joe has more than that in his store. The wealth of items that have been displayed in Las Vegas, New Jersey, PAX and Los Angeles are just the tip of the iceberg, and far exceed what is displayed in New York. Graph paper for the creation of Sim City? BFD.

I feel comfortable sharing that I have made a pledge already, however, it was less than I initially planned primarily because the more I looked at the informational page they posted, the more I became concerned about the lack of a comprehensive plan. While I believe there is no group of people that has done more to build the classic collecting community than the three proposed founders of the museum, I am also concerned about some of the failures of other similar attempts and frankly, their own spotty track record on things like making CGE an annual event.

Building a successful permanent museum requires setting up a board of directors that doesn't just sound good and include luminaries in the field, but also one that will beat the bushes and agree to raise a minimum of $500K to $1 million each by contacting their friends, relatives, co-workers, corporate sponsors, etc...It also means hiring professional fund raisers and coming up with a real business plan for how to fund this thing initially, construct or refit a facility, pay rent, utilities, staffing costs, insurance, etc...Perhaps they have such a plan, but as I re-read their proposal, all I saw was something that looked a lot like Videotopia which as far as I am concerned would be useless since Videotopia already exists (at least it's in storage somewhere and occasionally comes out when someone puts up the funds). I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and risk a little cash in this initial push in the hopes that they'll use it to start assembling a real team of professionals to make this happen. Until then, I remain skeptical and accept the fact that this might be a donation that disappears into a pipe dream.

[portnoyd]

I think one of the moderators needs to retitle this thread to the "Reasons not to donate to the museum." thread.

All I was saying, to you specifically, was that your speech, while accurate, is aimed at a community that is not the same as before and that you can't expect the same kind of commitment that your impassioned speech reflected upon.

Graph paper for the creation of Sim City? BFD.

After all this, you discount the same kind of material that will be featured in this new museum. To quote Frankie, that makes me sad.

I'm not sure what the presumption is ... that forum members that were not a part of the community ten years ago will not have any interest/desire/ability to support such a cause or that the whole of the community ten years ago would have somehow immediately rocketed the cause to it's goal within a period of 7 days

It's not that at all. I'm just saying:

The forums simply aren't the center of town any more, at least not how I see it.

[TonyTheTiger]

I don't see any mention of that on their page, but could be mistaken. But if that's the case their strategy is tried and true.

"Initially the funds raised through this Kickstarter project will be used to make our collection more mobile and give it a permanent home."

The money from the kickstarter fund is most certainly going to some aspect of the museum, sure. But I think it's pretty obvious that the only way to attract major investors is to show that the project has legs. So what's important isn't necessarily what specific museum-related issue the initial 30K will be spent on but simply that 30K was raised at all.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Big shot investors have to see progress for themselves. Which, if you think about it, is only rational. What is irrational is not putting forth at least a little team spirit into an idea everybody seems to agree is a good one to reach that minimum goal in order to get the ball rolling.

I'm not necessarily blaming people for not acting like the entire world is sunshine and roses. Realistic outlooks and criticisms are important to any endeavor's future success. But acknowledging potential hurdles and nevertheless trying to make something happen are not mutually exclusive.

[RCM]

The money from the kickstarter fund is most certainly going to some aspect of the museum, sure. But I think it's pretty obvious that the only way to attract major investors is to show that the project has legs. So what's important isn't necessarily what specific museum-related issue the initial 30K will be spent on but simply that 30K was raised at all.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Big shot investors have to see progress for themselves. Which, if you think about it, is only rational. What is irrational is not putting forth at least a little team spirit into an idea everybody seems to agree is a good one in order to reach that minimum goal in order to get the ball rolling.

I'm not necessarily blaming people for not acting like the entire world is sunshine and roses. But acknowledging potential hurdles and nevertheless trying to make something happen are not mutually exclusive.

Most "major investors" (however you're measuring it) won't give a fuck about raising 30K. In comparison to what the CGE guys realistically need it's insignificant and unimpressive from the standpoint of a "major investor." You might disagree, and by all means go ahead.

It's perfectly rational to look before you leap and ask questions when you can. Those of us who don't choose to donate shouldn't be labeled as irrational.