Examples of an entire map of one game in its sequel?

[wingzrow]

Chrono cross did the opposite. It takes place on a part of the original games world so small you could never even find it.

EDIT: damn seems someone beat me too it. Chrono cross mind.

[spongerob]

Technically Silent Hill would count too wouldn't it? Same town, with a few previously unexplored areas thrown in once in awhile.

MGS4's return to Shadow Moses was epic, to me. I love nostalgic bits like that. It'd been a decade but it felt just like the day I first played it.

[jammajup]

I must be getting old as the only game i can think of is Jet Set Willy II,he is back in the original mansion but new rooms have been built inbetween the existing ones making the whole game bigger to explore.

[TonyTheTiger]

Has anybody mentioned Symphony of the Night? Most Castlevanias tend to reproduce areas but this particular one does it a lot. I'm pretty sure the entire first game is built into the castle in some way.

[NayusDante]

I found that estimated map of Chrono Trigger's planet.



Chrono Break, if it ever goes back to the dev table, needs to somehow incorporate all of this, or at least clarify that Guardia, Porre, Choras, and Medina are just a few continents in a much, much larger planet.

[Aussie2B]

Interesting stuff. Thanks for posting that.

[TonyTheTiger]

I did a Castlevania 1/Symphony of the Night comparison. I estimated stages 3 and 5 as best as possible using similarities of theme and location. But generally speaking, almost every single area in Castlevania 1 has an analogue somewhere in Symphony.

Here's the plain CV1 and SotN maps. They're big so fair warning.

http://www.nesmaps.com/maps/Castleva...pleteMapA.html

http://www.vgmaps.com/Atlas/PSX/Cast...%27sCastle.png



And here is what I came up with:

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/7...comparison.png

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/2...omparison1.png

[bangtango]

The 12-year old in me had this running through my noggin:

So with Zelda II featuring the world from the original Legend of Zelda as part of the world map, it makes me wonder where the likes of Horsehead or Thunderbird were during the events of the first game since they are essentially flunkies of Ganon.

[Aussie2B]

The 12-year old in me had this running through my noggin:

So with Zelda II featuring the world from the original Legend of Zelda as part of the world map, it makes me wonder where the likes of Horsehead or Thunderbird were during the events of the first game since they are essentially flunkies of Ganon.

Actually, they don't have anything to do with Ganon. They're guardians of the palaces put in place by the ancient king that hid the Triforce of Courage in the Great Palace. By defeating these guardians and clearing these palaces, Link proves that he's worthy of possessing it. The people that turn into bats are Ganon's minions and theoretically the overworld monsters, but beyond that Ganon's presence isn't in the game much.

I don't know if I'm really buying this CV1/SotN comparison, but that long drop in SotN is a bit suspicious.

[TonyTheTiger]

The first two levels are absolutely similar. You can see the lower level with the water and mermen. There's even meat hidden in the same place (that big rock). The place where you fight the Giant Bat boss is a longer corridor in SotN but has the same design (the full staircase by the left door and the half one by the right). And the second level starts with a vertical area duplicated after meeting with Death in SotN.

The aforementioned big drop to the lower water caverns, the clocktower area being right before the stairway to Dracula and having vaguely reminiscent (although demolished) layout, and before the clock tower is a large outdoor area. The first game has you go through the bottom part of it and then again in the upper area. SotN just makes it one giant section.

[j_factor]

Is this unique to SOTN? Several Castlevania games sort of remake old levels, especially the first level.

[kupomogli]

And here is what I came up with:

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/7...comparison.png

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/2...omparison1.png

There are a lot of references to the original CV(and others) and I do believe that the long drop in the game is a reference to the original Castlevania, just like Azmodan 2(Mummy,) Frank, Giant Bat, Death, and Medusa are all bosses in the inverted castle(every boss from the original CV.) But other than the entrance, there are really no areas that carry any huge similarities to the original. Most of this map was just cut and paste and is really just trying to grasp at straws for the most part. You could disprove most of it by a lot of the locations that are pasted aren't even connected.

[TonyTheTiger]

Is this unique to SOTN? Several Castlevania games sort of remake old levels, especially the first level.

It's probably not. There are always throwbacks to old games since the castle tends to keep the same thematic elements but SotN is the one time they seemed to really try to incorporate everything. The areas are not OMG cut/paste but they have at least as much similarity as that Zelda II region. If the Zelda II area can be a mere abstraction of the Zelda 1 map then I don't see why obviously similar areas in the castle don't qualify when the idea of "same things as before but more" is pretty much exactly what you're getting.

Again, the staircase filled clock tower, the big open space before the clock tower (a bridge suspended above) which you can clearly see covered, both the lower area and the upper bridge, in the CV1 map, the long drop into the caverns, etc. It's all there.

Now if you want something actually identical? Yeah, it doesn't always work outside of not too few very specific details of stages 1, 2, 4 and 6 with thematic aspects of 3 and 5 carrying over to an area or two. But given the prior examples I don't think something being straight up identical is necessary.

[wingzrow]

Chrono Break, if it ever goes back to the dev table, needs to somehow incorporate all of this, or at least clarify that Guardia, Porre, Choras, and Medina are just a few continents in a much, much larger planet.

The faster you admit to yourself that the series is never getting another game the better off you're going to be.

[muteKi]

It's probably not. There are always throwbacks to old games since the castle tends to keep the same thematic elements but SotN is the one time they seemed to really try to incorporate everything. The areas are not OMG cut/paste but they have at least as much similarity as that Zelda II region. If the Zelda II area can be a mere abstraction of the Zelda 1 map then I don't see why obviously similar areas in the castle don't qualify when the idea of "same things as before but more" is pretty much exactly what you're getting.

Again, the staircase filled clock tower, the big open space before the clock tower (a bridge suspended above) which you can clearly see covered, both the lower area and the upper bridge, in the CV1 map, the long drop into the caverns, etc. It's all there.

Now if you want something actually identical? Yeah, it doesn't always work outside of not too few very specific details of stages 1, 2, 4 and 6 with thematic aspects of 3 and 5 carrying over to an area or two. But given the prior examples I don't think something being straight up identical is necessary.

Which is sort of funny because Rondo of Blood's clock tower is pretty much EXACTLY the same in Symphony, with only minor changes in layout. The only major difference is that due to the format of the game, the collapsing platforms at the start (a staple of the older CV games, really) don't lead to a bottomless pit.

[bangtango]

It's probably not. There are always throwbacks to old games since the castle tends to keep the same thematic elements but SotN is the one time they seemed to really try to incorporate everything. The areas are not OMG cut/paste but they have at least as much similarity as that Zelda II region. If the Zelda II area can be a mere abstraction of the Zelda 1 map then I don't see why obviously similar areas in the castle don't qualify when the idea of "same things as before but more" is pretty much exactly what you're getting.

Again, the staircase filled clock tower, the big open space before the clock tower (a bridge suspended above) which you can clearly see covered, both the lower area and the upper bridge, in the CV1 map, the long drop into the caverns, etc. It's all there.

Now if you want something actually identical? Yeah, it doesn't always work outside of not too few very specific details of stages 1, 2, 4 and 6 with thematic aspects of 3 and 5 carrying over to an area or two. But given the prior examples I don't think something being straight up identical is necessary.

Wasn't Dracula X the game which took you through at least one destroyed town from Simon's Quest?

[exit]

The first two Mother/Earhbound games have very similar maps in some areas.

[BetaWolf47]

No mentions of Wind Waker yet? The entire game takes place over a drowned Hyrule, the very same from Ocarina of Time. You eventually get to go down into Hyrule Castle, and be saddened at seeing the land of Hyrule dead underwater.

[TonyTheTiger]

Wasn't Dracula X the game which took you through at least one destroyed town from Simon's Quest?

Yes, the first stage of Rondo, at least part of it, looks strikingly similar to the towns in Simon's Quest. Castlevania is probably the one series constantly filled with shout outs to earlier entires.

But what I was trying to get at is simply all six CV1 stages have SotN parallels that more or less are in roughly the same area as the CV1 map with plenty of references.