U.S. Sonic with UPC sells for $981.33

[Aussie2B]

Maybe I should've have brought up this topic of discussion in a separate topic. *shrugs* At the time, it seemed closely related enough that I didn't think it was worth having two separate topics related to SMS Sonic (the mods are welcome to split them if desired), and I don't think the buyer had even popped in at that point (too lazy to check). The seller had, but as long as he gets his money, then he shouldn't give a flying flip even if people think SMS Sonic is a grapefruit.

I don't think this topic of discussion should be disparaging to anybody, though. No matter what SMS Sonic is classified as, it doesn't change the fact that the copies with UPC stickers are very rare, and if people think that variant should be worth a ton of money, then that's what it'll be worth. The market dictates. I definitely think this topic is more worthwhile than how it started, with it basically being "Hey, this dude spent a lot of money on SMS Sonic" and all of the replies being "That's cool" and "That's crazy". If anything, those latter replies are a lot more disparaging to the buyer and other collectors with this version of Sonic than the suggestions that SMS Sonic may not deserve to be acknowledged as a full-fledged US release.

I'm personally just looking at it through the perspective of what the established information is on this and similar titles and what resources like the rarity guide says and if those things need to be reexamined.

[goatdan]

I followed this for a bit, fell off, and just looked through it all again. Interesting debate. A little too heated sometimes, but that is what you get I guess. Anyway, a few insights that I can share from having done some UPC work and whatnot...

Just because the UPC starts with the same number doesn't really say anything. Having said that, I would tend to believe that these were released in the US. Was it by Sega? Who knows -- it is just as equally likely that some company imported a bunch of them, slapped UPC stickers on them and sent them out to be distributed where ever they were sold. Based on the number and the high profile of Sonic, I would say that was almost definitely Sega, but it is just as likely some enterprising company could have done the same thing.

There have been multiple times where a UPC has been changed on a product due to lots of reasons. It still happens to this day. Another Sega example is I believe the original Genesis games had one UPC, while the Majesco reprints had another.

There are also multiple times where a new UPC will be placed over an old one, either at the store level or at the company level. A great example is go to Target, look at their reduced cards. On the back, there will be a sticker that says like $0.99 with a bar code covering another sticker. The store changed the bar code to account for the item in a different way. In this case, it is because the cards didn't sell the first time around, so they put them in a pool with all of the other cards that didn't sell, reduce them all the same and track them as a whole instead of individually. I've seen many games like this, and even systems.

Having said all that, I'm a strong proponent of "I collect what I think I need for my collection to be complete" collecting. If you want to collect just carts, and you don't think that Sonic should count because you can't tell if it was an import cartridge or not, great! Don't count it! If you want to collect games that are boxed, and you think it should count, great! Count it! It doesn't really matter as long as you're happy with the results.

The one thing that makes people a little testy about this is that it is on the wrapper only, so it could be argued both ways, and the fact the only way you can tell is if it is unopened is different and drives the demand up to astronomical levels for those who want to prove that they have an actual, sold-in-the-US copy of the game. Those people are willing to pay nearly $1k for it, and good for them! Personally, if I was collecting SMS games, I think I would go for an open copy for way less, but you never know. I've been willing to drop stupid money on other items that I doubt many people were because I felt they were part of my complete set. Anyone who says that this is part of the complete set is totally open to that as a thought. Officially, Sega doesn't say one way or another what a complete set is, so it's up to the individual.

At least, that is what I think

[goatdan]

I said this is how you are being 'concieved'

Just for the record, conceived is when something is being formed, and is often used to describe when sperm meets an egg. I believe the word you're looking for is perceived, which means understood.

Sorry, I got a very funny picture in my head when I read this post and saw Tony the Tiger being conceived. I'd really like to have that thought out of my head now.

[TonyTheTiger]

Maybe I should've have brought up this topic of discussion in a separate topic. *shrugs* At the time, it seemed closely related enough that I didn't think it was worth having two separate topics related to SMS Sonic (the mods are welcome to split them if desired), and I don't think the buyer had even popped in at that point (too lazy to check). The seller had, but as long as he gets his money, then he shouldn't give a flying flip even if people think SMS Sonic is a grapefruit.

I don't think this topic of discussion should be disparaging to anybody, though. No matter what SMS Sonic is classified as, it doesn't change the fact that the copies with UPC stickers are very rare, and if people think that variant should be worth a ton of money, then that's what it'll be worth. The market dictates. I definitely think this topic is more worthwhile than how it started, with it basically being "Hey, this dude spent a lot of money on SMS Sonic" and all of the replies being "That's cool" and "That's crazy". If anything, those latter replies are a lot more disparaging to the buyer and other collectors with this version of Sonic than the suggestions that SMS Sonic may not deserve to be acknowledged as a full-fledged US release.

I'm personally just looking at it through the perspective of what the established information is on this and similar titles and what resources like the rarity guide says and if those things need to be reexamined.

Yeah, I figured this topic was an acceptable extension of the initial post. Where else could the thread have gone? Hell, it could have turned out FAR worse and become an actual beratement over the price as many other threads like this degenerated to. As far as I can tell, we just springboarded into a broader discussion about Sonic.

I don't think there's that much more to say on the subject than we've already said. We've turned over almost every stone, outside of going through with actual chemical testing to test the possibility of smoking out forgeries on a consistent basis. But, yeah, even I know that'd be a crazy thing to do if only because it costs money.

I'm pretty damn happy, all things considered.

[The Shawn]

Just for the record, conceived is when something is being formed, and is often used to describe when sperm meets an egg. I believe the word you're looking for is perceived, which means understood.

Sorry, I got a very funny picture in my head when I read this post and saw Tony the Tiger being conceived. I'd really like to have that thought out of my head now.

Yes, I knew that sounded totally ignorant. It's sort of an inside joke around the house with me.

No really...

[goatdan]

Yes, I knew that sounded totally ignorant. It's sort of an inside joke around the house with me.

No really...

Heh -- no, it's not a huge deal, and it is something a lot of people make the mistake of saying.

Having said that, I read it right after I posted my other thoughts and went, "Wait, we're makin' babies with this cart now?"

Hope it lightens the mood a bit

[The Shawn]

Are these pants to tight?

I'm pretty damn happy, all things considered.

Glad we're on the same page.

[TonyTheTiger]

Don't push me to post ponies.

[understatement]

This thread needs to be made into a movie.

[Hawksmoor]

[Sunnyvale]

First, let me commend Sunnyvale for replying like a gentleman. Reading back on our discussion, I see that some might read some extra 'tude between the lines. I just want you to know I did not intend it as such. You've done a good job expanding on your original position.

Thanks. No offense was taken. As Sothy said :It's the internet, who cares

I'm still not sure why we wouldn't be able to compare the two. Sorry, haha. Maybe there's something I'm missing.

You can compare the two to illustrate the evolution of the tech involved. That's all, imo. Stores used to be mostly brick-n-mortar, now they're mostly online. As The Gunslinger says: The world has moved on.

Those two links you posted didn't mention anything about changes in the UPC barcode system the years between 1991 and 2003. In my quick 10 minutes Googling, I've discovered that UPC scanners became popular in the 90s and that possibly more EAN numbers were added in that decade. I'm beginning to think we're just misunderstanding each other about this point.

After this post, I agree. We're crossing wires. Meh.

I don't know, as I don't own either copy of Radiant Silvergun. I do think that it would follow that a receipt by a licensed major retailer would serve the same proof as a UPC sticker though. That part is up to interpretation, I guess.

A reciept is a good point, but it lacks the 'feelie' characteristics of a sticker. I think this seperates it from Sonic in the mentality of (most) collectors.

After participating in this thread, I actually now, more than ever, believe Sonic is a US release. I also think maybe the collecting community should either accept officially sanctioned imports as part of regional sets, or just settle for distinguishing sets by language, or at least ask themselves what constitutes a full set (of any sort) so we don't run into weird potential inconsistencies.

I like your optimism! But we (the geek community) can't agree on tons of shit, so I'm not holding my breath


On a side note, I was about to bow out of this thread, but damn... I'm getting the popcorn, a beer, and some refers. Understatement was dead-on; this should be a TV show

[Sunnyvale]

First of all, I don't think I'm getting any shit from anybody but you. Sunnyvale and I had a back and forth but I don't think it got heated unless a call for evidence or a back and forth over the proper placement of burden of proof are read as "angry" or whatever. I certainly never intended to come across as beligerent toward him. If he read a response of mine that way then it was not my intent.

Sorry bout that. The 'Snip' I took for you implying I was being snippy. I see it was a snip of scissors. Got it.

Besides that, I've not been offended at all.