U.S. Sonic with UPC sells for $981.33

[PapaStu]

I'm a fan of variants, much more than most. If I was that big a SMS whore i'd have to think about it, especially if I'd gotten the other few UPC variants. Is 900 bucks pure insanity? You bet. Have I almost spend 400 bucks on the Syphon Filter 3 variant? Yup. If someone wants to make sure that their collection is as complete as they can make it, who should give a shit? Buyer was happy (assuming he pays) and we know that the seller is more than happy.

None of you are going to be doing this, so what does it matter?

[skaar]

I'll collect SMS out of spite now.

[Greg2600]

What's the actual rarity of this release of the game, anyone know? 100 copies, 1000, 10000??

[MarioMania]

What's the actual rarity of this release of the game, anyone know? 100 copies, 1000, 10000??

Sega just shipped the PAL copies over here & slapt on a Barcode Sticker

[Sunnyvale]

Biggest derp so far.

This isn't CSI.

Well, they won't go into all the details (DURP!), but here:

http://www.vggrader.com/about_whyuse.aspx

VGA also serves as an added assurance of Authenticity. Counterfeiters exist in any collectible market where money is involved. The collectible video game market is no exception. Dishonest sellers attempt to deliberately alter or counterfeit items for monetary gain. With today's advanced computer and printer technology, counterfeiters now have the ability to create high quality reproductions designed to mislead collectors. While its not always easy to spot forgeries or other signs of tampering, the graders at VGA are highly trained experts when it comes to detecting counterfeits and restoration.

Maybe they use a really big magnifying glass?
Do you think VGA couldn't tell a real sticker from a fake?
Or is anyone who has basic chemistry supplies and a decent microscope 'CSI' to you?

[Rickstilwell1]

How could you chemically test a sticker without ruining it? If you ruin the sticker in the process just a tiny bit, you degrade its value by a lot.

[Bojay1997]

This kind of subject is doomed to controversy, but that aside, I think it brings up an interesting issue of what truly constitutes a US (or any particular region) release. In my own personal opinion, I wouldn't consider this a genuine US release. It's just a PAL release chosen to be distributed elsewhere. If I was going for a full US Master System set, I'd probably pick up a PAL Sonic, and say "PAL Sonic was distributed in the US". I wouldn't care if that particular copy was shipped off to America or not because it's still the same product in the end.

But it seems like this game, when it has the UPC sticker, is unique in that it is counted as a US release by most collectors, when other games and game-related items in a similar scenario aren't.

Take, for example, Jump Superstars for DS, along with a handful of other early Japanese DS and PSP games. These were available for sale in American chain retail stores. I think Best Buy? Or was it Circuit City? No one considers these games as having a US release. I'm guessing these games had UPC stickers added to their packaging too.

Or, for another example, there are companies like Square Enix that make Japanese goods available to Americans online. You can buy, say, Japanese OSTs to Square Enix's games, yet no one lists them as having a US release on sites that thoroughly document that kind of stuff (vgmdb.net for OSTs). It's just thought of as "Hey, the company is giving me an opportunity to buy what they released in other countries, cool."

This is actually a pretty interesting point. For example, Tommo distributed a number of Japanese release Saturn games to Gamestop including Radiant Silvergun. They shipped them with the Japanese Obi card, but the games had an additional barcode sticker on the outer wrap. I guess the fact that it's Sega rather than a third party (do we know this for sure?) that acted as the publisher/re-distributor in the US for Sonic gives it added value in the eyes of some collectors.

[Sunnyvale]

How could you chemically test a sticker without ruining it? If you ruin the sticker in the process just a tiny bit, you degrade its value by a lot.

The same way they do it with comic books, or Magic Cards, or The Shroud of Turin. Take a teeniee weeniee piece you can't barely see with the naked eye.

[98PaceCar]

Well, they won't go into all the details (DURP!), but here:

http://www.vggrader.com/about_whyuse.aspx



Maybe they use a really big magnifying glass?
Do you think VGA couldn't tell a real sticker from a fake?
Or is anyone who has basic chemistry supplies and a decent microscope 'CSI' to you?

Kind of a moot point considering that I believe VGA only does authentication on shrinkwrapped/sealed games. This is neither and would not fall under their area of "expertise".

[MarioMania]

He won't get his Final Value for it

How much with ebay and paypal fees add up??

[wallydawg]

He won't get his Final Value for it

How much with ebay and paypal fees add up??

I listed it through an email that eBay sent me that stated "no entry fees, no final value fees." Paypal will probably hit me pretty hard, though.

For what its worth, the buyer is an SMS collector, and this was the last game he needed to complete his US set. He has been looking for it for quite a while and apparently other ones that have sold previous to this one were even more but that might just be speculation, I have no idea either way.

[Aussie2B]

This is actually a pretty interesting point. For example, Tommo distributed a number of Japanese release Saturn games to Gamestop including Radiant Silvergun. They shipped them with the Japanese Obi card, but the games had an additional barcode sticker on the outer wrap. I guess the fact that it's Sega rather than a third party (do we know this for sure?) that acted as the publisher/re-distributor in the US for Sonic gives it added value in the eyes of some collectors.

Oh, and there's also European Shenmue II for Dreamcast. I saw that for sale in practically every EB Games back in the day.

Yeah, in some of these cases, a third party may be handling the distribution, but I would guess that they'd all have to get authorization from the original publisher. So in my eyes at least, I don't see much of a difference with PAL Master System Sonic.

[TonyTheTiger]

This kind of subject is doomed to controversy, but that aside, I think it brings up an interesting issue of what truly constitutes a US (or any particular region) release. In my own personal opinion, I wouldn't consider this a genuine US release. It's just a PAL release chosen to be distributed elsewhere. If I was going for a full US Master System set, I'd probably pick up a PAL Sonic, and say "PAL Sonic was distributed in the US". I wouldn't care if that particular copy was shipped off to America or not because it's still the same product in the end.

But it seems like this game, when it has the UPC sticker, is unique in that it is counted as a US release by most collectors, when other games and game-related items in a similar scenario aren't.

Take, for example, Jump Superstars for DS, along with a handful of other early Japanese DS and PSP games. These were available for sale in American chain retail stores. I think Best Buy? Or was it Circuit City? No one considers these games as having a US release. I'm guessing these games had UPC stickers added to their packaging too.

Or, for another example, there are companies like Square Enix that make Japanese goods available to Americans online. You can buy, say, Japanese OSTs to Square Enix's games, yet no one lists them as having a US release on sites that thoroughly document that kind of stuff (vgmdb.net for OSTs). It's just thought of as "Hey, the company is giving me an opportunity to buy what they released in other countries, cool."

I'm going to throw my hat in with this. There are just so many examples of foreign products getting some measure of "official" distribution or distribution through traditional channels. Like said above, American retailers dealt in Saturn imports for a short time but how many people consider Radiant Silvergun part of an American full set?

But even playing devil's advocate, if the UPC sticker does change it into an American game, if somebody did start faking them the real tell would be a lot less high tech. People would just notice a strange increase in copies.

This is really not much different from the Games Quest Direct situation. When Games Quest Direct started distributing copies of formerly hard to find PS2 games people flipped their shit over whether or not there would be a way to distinguish between the releases. It just so happens that in that case there wasn't.

Maybe they use a really big magnifying glass?
Do you think VGA couldn't tell a real sticker from a fake?
Or is anyone who has basic chemistry supplies and a decent microscope 'CSI' to you?

There's only so much "information" that can exist in a sticker. People have gotten away with forging things a hell of a lot more complicated. You know...like money. Convincing "experts" that a UPC sticker is 20 years old is most certainly within the realm of believability.

Oh, and there's also European Shenmue II for Dreamcast. I saw that for sale in practically every EB Games back in the day.

Yeah, in some of these cases, a third party may be handling the distribution, but I would guess that they'd all have to get authorization from the original publisher. So in my eyes at least, I don't see much of a difference with PAL Master System Sonic.

Bingo. There's no way in hell they'd be able to distribute titles in major retailers in overseas markets without the go ahead. Whether or not it's Sega acting as the seller directly or giving the blessing to a third party shouldn't make a difference. Either way there has to be an official "Yeah, sell it."

In fact, Capcom had a problem with copies of Marvel Super Heroes vs. Street Fighter because the Norimaro character wasn't licensed for overseas so there was a bit of an issue over imports if I remember correctly. And I don't think those imports were even sanctioned by Capcom in the first place. They just ended up raising a small stink when they probably got yelled at.

[Jorpho]

Take, for example, Jump Superstars for DS, along with a handful of other early Japanese DS and PSP games.

Really?

PAL games I can understand, and there's certainly a lot of games that don't really require much comprehension of the language, but Jump Superstars is so enormously text-heavy that I am surprised any kind of major retailer would think enough copies would move to make it worthwhile. On the other hand, I suppose it might sell on packaging alone; but then again, I reckon it would accordingly get a lot of returns once a would-be purchaser realized how unplayable the game was.

[Aussie2B]

I thought it was a fighting game? Don't ask me, though, I just remember thinking "Huh, that's weird" when I saw this stuff for sale. :P Actually, I can't remember if all of those DS and PSP imports were Japanese or if some were European. I THINK they might've had European Breath of Fire III for PSP back then, but maybe my brain is making that up.

[InsaneDavid]

Buyer was happy (assuming he pays) and we know that the seller is more than happy.

At the end of the day, that's really what matters.

[skaar]

At the end of the day, that's really what matters.

This.

[fluid_matrix]

It would take less than 5 minutes to replicate that barcode and print it out on some white paper. By the time the buyer gets it graded the seller would be long gone with the money. (not saying this is the case here though).

http://www.barcoding.com/upc/

[digitpress Jim]

This reminds me of years back when I was younger at my local flee market, I remember seeing a copy of Sonic the Hedgehog on Sega Master System and didn't buy it =/ In all fairness, I didn't check to see if it had a UPC on it so it coulda been the common euro version. But still to this day I kick my self >

[jonebone]

Yeah I'm 50/50 on this. I think the ending price is definitely at the ridiculous level now, but unfortunately, the next sale may even be higher since at least two more people in this thread are legitimately interested.

I'm not going to say that faking a perfect sticker is a 5 minute operation, but you would think that faking a sticker is easier than reproducing a 100% identical box, or 100% identical shrinkwrap on a game that had never been opened (or creases would tell you it's a reseal).

I understand the collecting mentality, but I also could never drop that kind of money on a barcode.