Xbox 360 Manufacturing Workers Threaten Mass Suicide in China (GameSpot)

[davidbrit2]

They're calling themselves...

The Red Ring Of Death

[Sunnyvale]

It's not that they don't have a choice, it's that people don't care and will buy them anyway. That's what I said in my post. I don't have any of the current home consoles anyway.


In any case I never said anything about not buying things made overseas, I said people should not buy anything if the working conditions aren't good for the workers. Why not insist that factories are inspected by an independent source to check on the working conditions and have them make their report available to the public? These inspections don't even have to do with any type of official local law, they could be allowed voluntarily by various companies. People can stop buying things made in factories with poor working conditions until the conditions improve and are reported as such. Restaurants have health inspections and those results are posted publicly, people won't choose to eat in a place that hasn't passed inspections so why not insist on factories having inspections too?

The fact the inspections aren't Chinese government ran might be an issue, wouldn't you think? Taking your health inspection metaphor, how easy would it be to assure a Chinese resturant (in China) followed Canadian health codes? That's what you're asking for here. Look at the dog meat issue during the Seoul Olympics. The cops still eat dog, but we (the Western world) pushed it to be illegal, and it technically is.

And no, you never said anything about boycotting a nation's goods. But honestly, if you see 'Made in China' on it, do you not think 'Slave-labor'? I sure do. Unless you want to dig and research every step of manufacturing of every product you wish to buy, a practical way to do what you suggested is boycott nation's goods with poor labor practices.

[Leo_A]

Boycotting Chinese goods, although an admirable idea for a huge number of reasons, is a virtual impossbility in 2012 unless you want to make a complete retreat from civilization.

I was going to just post saying "Que Sera, Sera". Hard to get too worked up over this. To the best of my understanding, they have employment at will and if they're not happy with their current employment, they can move on. And from what I've read and what I've personally seen over the years, their only care about us is what exactly they can get out of us by serving as our factory.

There's not much in regards to their culture, their politics, or their morals that gives me much of a reason to give them anymore thought than I absolutely have to. Guess that makes me just as bad as many of them are, so I suppose I'll wish them luck with whatever they're out to accomplish. But it sure strikes me as an idiotic way to accomplish anything and difficult to feel any sympathy for them.

[Gameguy]

The fact the inspections aren't Chinese government ran might be an issue, wouldn't you think? Taking your health inspection metaphor, how easy would it be to assure a Chinese resturant (in China) followed Canadian health codes? That's what you're asking for here. Look at the dog meat issue during the Seoul Olympics. The cops still eat dog, but we (the Western world) pushed it to be illegal, and it technically is.

And no, you never said anything about boycotting a nation's goods. But honestly, if you see 'Made in China' on it, do you not think 'Slave-labor'? I sure do. Unless you want to dig and research every step of manufacturing of every product you wish to buy, a practical way to do what you suggested is boycott nation's goods with poor labor practices.

Well Microsoft said that they're going to look into it as they take working conditions seriously, it's probably a lie but let's assume it's true. That would basically mean that they'll be sending someone over to check how their factories are being run, and possibly having a say in how they're being run. This would be from someone who's not from that country and not with the Chinese government. Instead of sending over someone from their own company, why not just hire some service to check on this stuff for them regularly and report back to them? This service could be used by just about every major company that has products manufactured overseas, they would just record information and send it back to companies as well as making it all public. If anything doing this would be good for public relations, having it seem like you make your employees work in such poor conditions that they want to kill themselves doesn't seem good for PR and that's how they're coming across now.

I think most places being outsourced to are treated about the same, with poor pay and with poor working conditions compared to North American or European standards. I'm just hoping that those conditions aren't too poor, it sounds like that Microsoft factory is if most of the employees tried to commit suicide in protest.

Boycotting Chinese goods, although an admirable idea for a huge number of reasons, is a virtual impossbility in 2012 unless you want to make a complete retreat from civilization.

I was going to just post saying "Que Sera, Sera". Hard to get too worked up over this. To the best of my understanding, they have employment at will and if they're not happy with their current employment, they can move on. And from what I've read and what I've personally seen over the years, their only care about us is what exactly they can get out of us by serving as our factory.

There's not much in regards to their culture, their politics, or their morals that gives me much of a reason to give them anymore thought than I absolutely have to. Guess that makes me just as bad as many of them are, so I suppose I'll wish them luck with whatever they're out to accomplish. But it sure strikes me as an idiotic way to accomplish anything.

I don't blame the employees themselves, they're just looking to make money to support their family. I recommend for people to watch the documentary Last Train Home to get an idea as to how a large portion of these workers make do. Often they live at the factories and just send the money home for their families, only seeing them around New Years.

Their current political system has been in place for less than 100 years, to dismiss over 4000 years of history and culture just seems ignorant.

[Leo_A]

Their current political system has been in place for less than 100 years, to dismiss over 4000 years of history and culture just seems ignorant.

I'm largely ignorant of the past 3900+ years of Chinese history since it doesn't interest me and I don't have a need to know. I'll freely admit to that and don't feel any shame in it. I know they built a several hundred miles long fortification for various reasons and some other bits and pieces like the heritage of gunpowder and the printing press and some other basic facts, but that's about it.

I was discussing China of today, not China of yesteryear (So I can hardly be dismissing something I wasn't even discussing). It's the same reason when I'm discussing modern day Germany that I'm not holding against them what they were responsible for during the 30's and early 40's since it's largely irrelevant to the present day situation. I'm sure they have much to be proud of throughout their long and storied history and wasn't condemning all their accomplishments and heritage or trying to trivialize it (Such as the ones that risked their lifes to assist downed American airmen in Japanese held territory after the Doolittle Raid in 1942, for a small example of something I'm personally aware of that I think they should be proud of).

Heck, if anything, I was in agreement with these people since the vast majority of my negative opinion of present day China is due to their human rights violations.

[InsaneDavid]

[Kitsune Sniper]

Well Microsoft said that they're going to look into it as they take working conditions seriously, it's probably a lie but let's assume it's true. That would basically mean that they'll be sending someone over to check how their factories are being run, and possibly having a say in how they're being run. This would be from someone who's not from that country and not with the Chinese government. Instead of sending over someone from their own company, why not just hire some service to check on this stuff for them regularly and report back to them? This service could be used by just about every major company that has products manufactured overseas, they would just record information and send it back to companies as well as making it all public.

Easy.

Workers from external companies can be bribed. Such is the way of China.

[kedawa]

I'm pretty sure the extent of Microsoft's investigation into this will be that they get their legal department to make sure it's not their problem and get their PR people to find a way to deflect criticism.

[Collector_Gaming]

Easy.

Workers from external companies can be bribed. Such is the way of China.

you go over to china large and you go into the place looking to put a stop to something

and the first big wig stops you

"awwww i see you are here to check the safety and comfort of our workers.... is there a way we can make you feel comfortable? Perhaps make a proposition that we can agree on?"

and out comes brief cases of this


and about a half dozen of these


Now if i had some crazy shit going down here and you were sent to investigate....

and if i gave you a brief case full of unmarked Benjamin's... and a small army of very lovely women waiting to goto town on you (providing your not homosexual or completely straight woman.). Would you take the bribe and write it off in favor of me or would you just continue to investigate just like you were told?

[Sunnyvale]

Easy.

Workers from external companies can be bribed. Such is the way of China.

This.

if i gave you a brief case full of unmarked Benjamin's... and a small army of very lovely women waiting to goto town on you (providing your not homosexual or completely straight woman.). Would you take the bribe and write it off in favor of me or would you just continue to investigate just like you were told?

And don't forget the alternative. Don't play ball, maybe a little weed gets found in your hotel room, maybe your paperwork's not in order...

And honestly, if all of us consumers know how shitty it is in the China sweatshops, the companies outsourcing to them do as well. That inspector is probably not suppossed to take it seriously to begin with, as a directive from his employers.

http://www.fastcompany.com/blog/char...-program-fraud

And despite all these 'inspections', go look at the recalled toys section on the wall of Wally World. Piles of lead paint toys from Chinese inspected factories.

[Ludwig]

Fuck up the assembly line. Punch their supervisor in the dick. Take a shit in every console.
If they're willing to throw their lives away, why not have a blast doing it?
Or they could just not kill themselves and stop working there.

After 15 minutes of trying to find the right words for this, i'm still wondering how a mature and healthy (?) human mind can get it this wrong. It's not america. I wonder if i want to stay here anymore or just go some place else.

[Collector_Gaming]

This.



And don't forget the alternative. Don't play ball, maybe a little weed gets found in your hotel room, maybe your paperwork's not in order...

And honestly, if all of us consumers know how shitty it is in the China sweatshops, the companies outsourcing to them do as well. That inspector is probably not suppossed to take it seriously to begin with, as a directive from his employers.

http://www.fastcompany.com/blog/char...-program-fraud

And despite all these 'inspections', go look at the recalled toys section on the wall of Wally World. Piles of lead paint toys from Chinese inspected factories.

well when you find a hazard to american children... You know unless something is done right... Some super outrage will happen and probably some how after things lead to others a war will emit some how...
So walmart stepped in and put their foot down on that case before it grew into a very costly problem.

But in terms of the treatment of workers over in the sweatshops everything financially politically and humanely about them i feel isn't told in full on what goes on there. I think people do get paid off or double crossed to make everything seem perfect and life goes on.

and the best part about it............ You as a normal individual just like myself..................... we can't stop it. We could march up to the factory with the problems and demand for their acts to be corrected..... and they would just laugh at us and close the door. Cause they know we can't do anything.

When you make a man almost like a god like figure. Its gonna take alot to bring him right back down.

Look at stories of all your con men who made it huge before their back lash. It takes alot government related work to bring them down..... Not your average every day smuck that has a problem with them.

Thats what happens in china... These big wigs.. they hold all the cards and theres nothing thats willing to bring them back down to change their ways.

[Gameguy]

I was discussing China of today, not China of yesteryear (So I can hardly be dismissing something I wasn't even discussing).

Ok, I thought you meant all of their culture instead of just their current culture. I can agree with you on their current setup.

and if i gave you a brief case full of unmarked Benjamin's... and a small army of very lovely women waiting to goto town on you (providing your not homosexual or completely straight woman.). Would you take the bribe and write it off in favor of me or would you just continue to investigate just like you were told?

Personally I have integrity so that wouldn't appeal to me at all. Plus any woman who would be willing to do it or go out on the town just because they're asked or paid to, they're too trashy for me.



As I said, most people just don't care which is why working conditions will still continue like that. If most people actually did care and either demanded that conditions improve or will stop buying products manufactured there(actually following through with this) then things will be forced to change. Most people won't be willing to go that far, they just want to buy their stuff and forget about it as they always have.

[Collector_Gaming]

Ok, I thought you meant all of their culture instead of just their current culture. I can agree with you on their current setup.


Personally I have integrity so that wouldn't appeal to me at all. Plus any woman who would be willing to do it or go out on the town just because they're asked or paid to, they're too trashy for me.



As I said, most people just don't care which is why working conditions will still continue like that. If most people actually did care and either demanded that conditions improve or will stop buying products manufactured there(actually following through with this) then things will be forced to change. Most people won't be willing to go that far, they just want to buy their stuff and forget about it as they always have.

Thats cause they have everyone by the balls to be blunt about it.

Its like the gas prices.

Everyone including myself complain about gas prices and such.
They won't change unless like you said people stopped buying the product.

But....... People can't stop buying the product.
Apartment buildings that use oil furnaces for heating as you should know since you live a colder territory being in canada and all can't just go "oh sorry people for turning your heat off. we are on a oil strike"
A number of houses use oil furnaces as well. granted they could stop and pitch in and buy a wood stove that costs pretty close to a grand or more. So they with a crumbling economy most of these people are stuck at a fork in the road trying to get by day to day paying bills..... Do they pay their 4-500 or more heating oil bill... Or skip a month... suffer without heat (unless they buy a electric heater and heat x amount of rooms and watch their electric bill go up) and spring for the wood stove?.. I mean yes they could have done it this summer... But maybe that wasn't on their mind this summer and strain has gotten too much when brought to reality so they gotta deal with it now.

Then automobiles.. Yes i know we have electric cars thanks to chevy and nissan and few others now unveiling their electric cars.
But what about the tractor trailer trucks? What about commercial air planes? What about military planes? what about military vehicles? What about industrial vehicles? Farming vehicles?

and what about the million other things that require crude oil now a days that i don't feel like listing?

Yea we could go on strike and stop using it.. The consequences are way way way too risky with how we live in our day to day lives...... So we are forced to take it up the ass and live with it. and the oil company owners are laughing all the way to the bank as there is nothing anyone can do about it

The problem with all this is we let ourselves get too use to having technology and machinery be there for us every step of the way that if for whatever reason its not there we are left scratching our heads trying to figure out what to do. So a protest for that cause on that magnitude is on paper impossible. I am not saying its completely impossible but damn near it

[BlastProcessing402]

But at the same time i say fuck them pull the work out in general bring it back over here... We as american citizens should be making those xbox's.

Things like the minimum wage, OSHA, unions, pensions, etc pretty much make it impossible to make things like this in America anymore, unless you want to pay like $5000 for it.

Hell, we can't even keep american made twinkies on shelves without going bust anymore.

[Collector_Gaming]

Things like the minimum wage, OSHA, unions, pensions, etc pretty much make it impossible to make things like this in America anymore, unless you want to pay like $5000 for it.

Hell, we can't even keep american made twinkies on shelves without going bust anymore.

Well my biggest beef with how american manufactures are... is the big wigs (i use that term alot? What i mean is your head honchos that run the whole shabang) are so greedy that it does make it impossible.

The american dream build cheap and make super profits. Thats our flaw... thats what started this problem to begin with.

Maybe we are too late to correct it. Who's to say?

But i can still bitch about it... Cause thats the american way


My favorite argument i have heard before from numerous people is the notion of What is made in america any more when you boil everything down.

american cars... are they truely made in america? No to cut on costs they have some of thier parts made else where.

and to be fairly honest... we are not the only ones to blame for this problem.... almost every country in this world does this now a days........... They outsource to cheap labor to get the job done.

This is part of why you have failing economies... But........ places like China are blowing economically. They went from 3rd world status to becoming a threat in terms of being the new world power financially and they are doing it very very quickly

[kedawa]

After 15 minutes of trying to find the right words for this, i'm still wondering how a mature and healthy (?) human mind can get it this wrong. It's not america. I wonder if i want to stay here anymore or just go some place else.

What mature and healthy individual struggles with a forum post for fifteen minutes?
I bet you really miss riding the short bus to school.