PowerPak and Super Everdrive Questions

[dgdgagdae]

That's the first I've heard of the SD2SNES. Just read up on it and it sounds nice. Always wanted to play Star Fox 2 on a real system and it sounds as if Super FX support is just a matter of when, not if. Too bad it won't support everything, but it's still a nice leap it appears over existing carts in several ways (No load times ).

I think I'll just get the EverDrive when Stone Age has them back in stock. The SD2SNES would be worth the $200, but I wonder what availability is going to be. Not just when will it be released, but it doesn't sound like something that's going to be out there in very big quantities. It's hard enough trying to get an EverDrive!

[Greg2600]

The price for the board was pegged at around $189.99, and Stone Age's deluxe was much more. Due to the price point to begin with, I think Krikzz doesn't expect a ton to be made, and that always drives up the price. I also don't know what the component cost is. Really you're paying for the time to make these by hand. Beyond SuperFX, the big question will be whether the inventor (ikari_01) would implement SA-1?

Check this video out, by the way, of somebody who converted Road Blasters to SNES on this card (MSU1).....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHj0oRkr-6g

[Satoshi_Matrix]

I guess part of my confusion is this - it's emulation? I thought that the carts just held the roms, that it was just a convenient way of getting files from one place to a format the SNES can read. What exactly is being emulated, when you have the full console right there doing what it is that consoles do? The SNES doesn't just see it as a cartridge game, there's some emulation going on inside the cart?

Yes its emulation, but its just done on hardware. What is being emulated are the various mappers for the games to run on. Think of them basically as the canvas on which the painting goes. The Powerpak emulates the canvas and then the NES cpu draws the painting just as it would with the real cartridges. The result are complete carbon copies that cannot be discerned from the original cartridge games.

From what I've read about the SNES PowerPak, the game saving thing looks like a pain. You have to remember to hold down reset, or your games aren't saved, and then it looks like you manually have to copy the saves over to a new place so that they're not overwritten by another game's save file. If that's all correct, then that alone would drive me to the EverDrive.

It is slightly a pain, but nothing to get your back bent out of shape over. You just create a dummy save file and duplicate it, remaining the duplicates to the name of the game your are saving as. Then you just use the simple file browser to find that save file and save to it. This is how both the NES and SNES Powerpaks save their data. This might sound complicated, but do it once and it'll become second nature.

You're an absolute troll you know that. You post a couple of youtube videos on games and suddenly you think you're the end all be all source for retro gaming. Well you're not. You never were, and you never will be. So get off your high horse already.

That is by far the most ironic post I've read in a long time. YOU calling ME a troll. Your post was full of incorrect statements and comes across as the very definition of forum trolling. Regardless, you really aren't worth arguing with, so as I said, its best to simply ignore you.

Thank you.

As far as I know, the Super Powerpak and the Super Everdrive have virtually identical compatibility. Both have the option of installing a DSP chip which was easily the most common expansion chip included with SuperNes games and both can play any SuperNes cartridge that didn't utilize an expansion chip. Neither one has the ability to play things like Super FX games and neither one will ever get that ability. The chips aren't installed in either and the FPGA of the PowerPak isn't nearly powerful enough to recreate them (Something even Bunnyboy has confirmed in the past). About the only differences in compatibility that I can recall off hand is that the Powerpak can play Star Ocean and the Everdrive seems to be better able to run Satiliteview hacks. Their compatibility list are 99.9% identical. And you can save games with both devices, it's not an advantage that the SuperNes Powerpak holds over the Super Everdrive.

This.

I actually tossed that in for Satoshi_Matrix. He mentions that the NES Powerpak supports game saves to the flash memory (Which is incorrect).

How is that statement incorrect? The NES Powerpak saves game SRAM to prearranged save files stored on a Compact Flash card, which is a type of flash memory.

SD2SNES will/is superior to both, but the price tag is pretty high.

Anyone know what it'll be selling for? I assume it will be expensive, but I'm not not $250 expensive. Here's crossing my fingers. I love the SNES/SFC library, but the way my collection stands now I could purchase every single SNES/SFC game on my checklist that are missing from my collection for that much.

Didn't the Powerpak also have an issue where it enhanced that line through the middle of the screen that usually isn't very noticeable? So that's another thing to keep in mind.

I've owned a Super Powerpak since the day it launched (had to pay extra for DSP1 back then) and I've never once experienced this problem, and I have my SNES hooked up to SCART. The blacker-than-black vertical line is produced by the console hardware itself, not the software. Many Super Famcioms and SNESes produced before 1992 do not have the vertical line issue at all, and of those that to it is less pronounced on later revisions of the hardware.


[QUOTE=Greg2600;1894513]The price for the board was pegged at around $189.99, and Stone Age's deluxe was much more. Due to the price point to begin with, I think Krikzz doesn't expect a ton to be made, and that always drives up the price. I also don't know what the component cost is. Really you're paying for the time to make these by hand. Beyond SuperFX, the big question will be whether the inventor (ikari_01) would implement SA-1?

What I'm curious about is if the expansion chips can be emulated, can they also be improved? For example, it is possible to overclock SGU-2 chip to over twice its original clockspeed by replacing the crystal oscillators. In order to overclock SGU-1 games, you need to first remove the mask roms from the SGU-2 game and the SGU-1 game you want and then swap them and resolder them. After this is done, THEN you can replace the oscillators. As you might imagine, this is a lengthy and costly procedure to overclock SGU-1 games like StarFox.

If the SD2SNES does indeed support SGU-1 and SGU-2 emulation, then it should, in theory, be possible to code in these hardware hacks to produce superior versions without the lag of the stock counterparts.

[dgdgagdae]

Credit where credit is due - BunnyBoy shipped out my NES PowerPak 3 days after I ordered it, and I already have it in hand. An email with a question about the SNES PowerPak has still gone unanswered, but at least I have what I paid for, and it was a quick turnaround. And to be completely fair, Stone Age Gamer still hasn't responded to an email I sent on Tuesday asking about a waiting list or email notification when the EverDrive is in stock.

It's much more professionally done than I'd expected. I thought it was just some guy doing homebrew, but it looks like a really polished product. The way to save games to virtual battery backup isn't nearly as annoying as I'd figured.

Based on my experience with this device, and the fact that I can actually order one, I'm now leaning more towards the SNES PowerPak over the EverDrive.

[Shulamana]

I'm surprised that Stone Age Gamer has taken so long to reply, last year when I was investigating and after I had already received my Super Everdrive from them, I got replies to my emails within 24 hours every time, even on Sundays (twice). I am pretty sure that Stone Age Gamer is a 1 person operation, and sometimes things do happen.

[Leo_A]

How is that statement incorrect? The NES Powerpak saves game SRAM to prearranged save files stored on a Compact Flash card, which is a type of flash memory.

Read my post. I thought it was clear that I made a mistake with my recollection of your post as I typed mine up, recognized it after dgdgagdae posted, and corrected myself.

I've owned a Super Powerpak since the day it launched (had to pay extra for DSP1 back then) and I've never once experienced this problem, and I have my SNES hooked up to SCART. The blacker-than-black vertical line is produced by the console hardware itself, not the software. Many Super Famcioms and SNESes produced before 1992 do not have the vertical line issue at all, and of those that to it is less pronounced on later revisions of the hardware.

The Powerpak supposedly isn't shielded quite enough and causes a bit of interference (Or at least that was the theory thrown around here at DP at the time for why it was happening) that causes the vertical line through the center of the screen to be more noticeable than usual.

What I'm curious about is if the expansion chips can be emulated, can they also be improved? For example, it is possible to overclock SGU-2 chip to over twice its original clockspeed by replacing the crystal oscillators. In order to overclock SGU-1 games, you need to first remove the mask roms from the SGU-2 game and the SGU-1 game you want and then swap them and resolder them. After this is done, THEN you can replace the oscillators. As you might imagine, this is a lengthy and costly procedure to overclock SGU-1 games like StarFox. .

I don't know what a SGU is, but since you mentioned Star Fox, I assume it's the SuperFX chip. The thread I read about this multicart after it was mentioned last night said that they were likely going to actually have to slow the Super FX recreation on the FPGA down (I'm not sure if emulation is the correct word here since isn't the FPGA actually replicating the functions of the original chip at the circuit level, and even if it is, it confuses people as this thread has shown) to match the correct speed and that it would be optional to run it at faster speeds.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

Yeah. The SNES Powerpak is an extremely high quality product and its menu interface is identical to the NES Powerpak. This is why I recommend the SNES Powerpak over the Everdrive. They both basically work the same, but I have never once regretted buying my Super Powerpak. Just don't expect Bunnyboy to answer emails.

Ever.

[Leo_A]

Does the Powerpak have automatic saving now? That at least used to be a big advantage in favor of the Everdrive. No need to make your own save file (A huge pain) and you just saved normally, no holding the reset button down for 5 seconds when powering off the system.

And it also offers no strange SD card compatibility issues (Something I haven't seen mentioned yet but many Powerpak owners had issues with CF compatibility, even when the card was purchased along with the Powerpak from Bunnyboy). Not to mention that a CF card is much more expensive than a SD card of the same size.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

There isn't automatic saving no, but it does ask you if you want to save and then all you need to do is browse to the save file you want to use. It takes less than 10 seconds.

Also, how is making dummy save files for your games a huge pain? Again it takes ten seconds, and after you've done it once you never need to do it again. All you need to do is figure out which games you'll be saving your progress in and then make save files for them before you play.

I mean really, people will complain about anything.

[badinsults]

There isn't automatic saving no, but it does ask you if you want to save and then all you need to do is browse to the save file you want to use. It takes less than 10 seconds.

Also, how is making dummy save files for your games a huge pain? Again it takes ten seconds, and after you've done it once you never need to do it again. All you need to do is figure out which games you'll be saving your progress in and then make save files for them before you play.

I mean really, people will complain about anything.

That actually does really sound like a huge pain. If I have to make saves for a hundred games, then I would consider it to be a large hassle.

[dgdgagdae]

That actually does really sound like a huge pain. If I have to make saves for a hundred games, then I would consider it to be a large hassle.

If you have save files from emulators, you can copy those over to the CF card. So for my NES games, I just copied over my .SAV files from Nestopia. It looks like the SNES PowerPak uses .SRM files, same as ZSNES.

A bigger issue to me would be "oh crap, this game saves" after you're done playing, and you don't have a save file for it. I guess you could tell it to save to the dummy file (you can download a dummy from RetroUSB) and then rename it later.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

For that, just have a few extra empty save files titled something like 8KSRAM01, 02, 03, etc.

It's really a non issue. Outside of RPGs, most NES games actually do not save to battery. The same is even true for SNES games. Most titles even in the 16 bit era still didn't save to SRAM.You can for the most part tell directly at the titlescreen if you see a Password option.

If its necessary, here's a list of NES and Famicom games that use SRAM saves and thus would require you to have dummy save files.
http://www.pocketnes.org/tools/NesGa...RAM_Titney.TXT

I dont have a quick and dirty list for all SNES/SFC games that use SRAM saves, but there's at least this thread.
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/show...01#post1606201

[dgdgagdae]

I went ahead and ordered a SNES PowerPak, based on how impressed I was with the NES PowerPak. I don't think the inconvenience of having to manually save to memory should be dismissed, because it's definitely an inconvenience. But it's one I'm willing to deal with.

I also ordered the Atari RetroPort while I was at it. He also offers a Genesis retroport. Is there actually a difference between the products, or will the Atari one work with a Genesis controller and all 6 buttons?

[Greg2600]

I'm not really a game saver at all, so I can't really comment on which product is better for that. PP is a little better with some weird stuff like prototypes and the BS-X stuff. It's better with reading games with header file issues. Krikzz released an OS patch which allows you to circumvent these issues, and that was beneficial. The main issue with the Super PowerPak since day 1 has been the CompactFlash card compatibility. It was never quite solved, although if you use the card that comes with it, it should be okay. The deluxe Stone Age product is about the same price, but for me what's good is you can buy the board only still (when in stock), use a dremel on your own donor cart, buy a 2GB SD Card, and slap your own label on there for under $100.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

I went ahead and ordered a SNES PowerPak, based on how impressed I was with the NES PowerPak. I don't think the inconvenience of having to manually save to memory should be dismissed, because it's definitely an inconvenience. But it's one I'm willing to deal with.

Hey contrats. I absolutely love the SNES Powerpak. Too bad the CF card doesn't sit flush with it like the NES PP does, but thats a very minor aesthetic complaint. I do agree that the Powerpak not saving automatically is a bit of an annoyance, but it's really a trivial inconvenience given all that the Powerpak offers. It sure beats no saving at all.

I also ordered the Atari RetroPort while I was at it. He also offers a Genesis retroport. Is there actually a difference between the products, or will the Atari one work with a Genesis controller and all 6 buttons?

I really have no idea. I would hazard a guess that they are the same though.

[nusilver]

I have an NES Powerpak, and I'm gonna say right now that I prefer my Super Everdrive. The saving thing is not so minor to me. Anyway!

Satoshi, did you ever finish your RDP review? I haven't seen part 4.

[substantial_snake]

I am much less technically oriented then some of the posters in this thread so can someone here break down what the end user advantages of the SD2SNES over a DSP1 Equipped Super Everdrive. I understand that you'll be able to do OS updates through an SD card and support for many (if not all) of the SNES Enchantment chips but is there anything else that would justify picking one up?

[Greg2600]

SD2SNES will allow for more special-chip games, yes. The user interface is a nice hi-res graphical one, not text/line based. It has an MSU1 chip capability, which means possibilities for advanced CD quality sound/music. Someone already converted the laser disc game Road Blasters, in some workable fashion. Roms load instantly, like the PowerPak. Massive rom-size allowed. Can save most games instantly to SRAM.

Now all of that said, the price tag is going to nearly double the PowerPak or Everdrive. If you can spare the money, obviously I'd say go for it. If you can't, the other two are excellent alternatives that allow you to play hundreds of SNES/SFC games.

[Satoshi_Matrix]

Yeah. For most people, the Super Powerpak is the best option to go with. the SD2SNES will only for the absolute hardcore SNES fans and tech junkies. As I said before, I'm excited for its potential to be coded to actually outperform Super FX games. A lot of FX games like Stunt Racer FX and to some extent even Star Fox run rather choppy; if the SD2SNES is as powerful as it is in theory, it should be able to emulate those the SGU2 chip beyond what the stock real one is and majorly speed up those games.

[Leo_A]

Yeah. For most people, the Super Powerpak is the best option to go with.

There's no shortage of people that back the Super Everdrive as the best option of the two. Type in something like Super Powerpak vs. Super Everdrive into a search engine and see what people are saying.

At the very least, they're neck and neck with no clear winner.