The future of eBay

[Kitsune Sniper]

http://forums.ebay.com/db2/topic/Sel...079122?start=0
http://blog.ecommercebytes.com/cgi-b...330701827.html

eBay is testing out a new sale system in Germany. In short:

You no longer get payment for an item directly via PayPal. Now the payment is sent to eBay, who then holds the money until you send the item, and then they deposit it into your PayPal account. And other lovely stuff that I just can't figure out why they'd think this is a good idea.

I don't even know how to feel about this. Sick, mostly.

[Jaruff]

I don't think it's going to happen in the States. Personally, that would be enough for me to drop my store subscription, move much of my regular inventory to Amazon, and reserve eBay for large transactions only. If they did institute it, I think it would only last for a few months before the changes were reversed.

[Kitsune Sniper]

I hope they don't go this way, but really, eBay's management is stupid enough to do it. They're proven they don't give a damn about small sellers time after time.

[Jaruff]

I think the only positive is if they continue to make such decisions, someone is going to step in with an alternative. There has been chatter about Google doing an Auctions site for years and now would be a great time to do it. People are upset with the major players, media has increased awareness about auctions and second-hand sells, and the economy is still on the downside. Hell, I guess Facebook could do it too.

[Duke.Togo]

Makes me hope sites like Game Gavel get more traffic.

[Bojay1997]

Not seeing the problem here. For newer sellers they already hold payment for up to a week. Why should you be paid before you ship the item? Frankly, as a buyer I'm tired of sellers who take a week or two to ship items. If you don't have time to ship stuff out on a timely basis, you shouldn't be listing stuff and if you're so hard up for cash that you can't advance the cost of shipping, perhaps selling on Ebay is not for you.

http://forums.ebay.com/db2/topic/Sel...079122?start=0
http://blog.ecommercebytes.com/cgi-b...330701827.html

eBay is testing out a new sale system in Germany. In short:

You no longer get payment for an item directly via PayPal. Now the payment is sent to eBay, who then holds the money until you send the item, and then they deposit it into your PayPal account. And other lovely stuff that I just can't figure out why they'd think this is a good idea.

I don't even know how to feel about this. Sick, mostly.

[Icarus Moonsight]

It's an escrow system. Chill.

[Jaruff]

Not seeing the problem here. For newer sellers they already hold payment for up to a week. Why should you be paid before you ship the item? Frankly, as a buyer I'm tired of sellers who take a week or two to ship items. If you don't have time to ship stuff out on a timely basis, you shouldn't be listing stuff and if you're so hard up for cash that you can't advance the cost of shipping, perhaps selling on Ebay is not for you.

It's really not that simple.

1. Does the employee at McDonald's present your food before you pay them? Rarely. I've never known a rental place to let you take a game/movie/whatever home before you paid them. Same situation here. I've never shipped anything out to another DP member without receiving their payment nor has any DP member shipped an item to me before I paid them. I wouldn't expect them to either.

2. Tired of sellers that take a while to ship? Pay attention to the rankings before placing a bid. It's the same argument uninformed bidders used about shipping costs before eBay started "taxing" it. "This is such a great deal but shipping is so expensive." One should always perform due diligence before giving another person money. Besides, eBay is "fixing" this by holding the 20% discount for Top-Rated Sellers hostage by forcing "one day handling" on listings.

It's an escrow system. Chill.

Escrow makes sense for expensive transactions. Escrow for a $10-20 item? Ridiculous overhead for both the small business owner, large business owner, and eBay itself. It's just silly and I highly doubt it will ever happen in the US. However, the fact that eBay is considering this change is very disappointing.

[Kitsune Sniper]

Not seeing the problem here. For newer sellers they already hold payment for up to a week. Why should you be paid before you ship the item? Frankly, as a buyer I'm tired of sellers who take a week or two to ship items. If you don't have time to ship stuff out on a timely basis, you shouldn't be listing stuff and if you're so hard up for cash that you can't advance the cost of shipping, perhaps selling on Ebay is not for you.

Considering I've been surviving by the skin of my teeth from eBay sales for the past six years because there's no jobs where I live, yes, maybe eBay isn't for me. But if it wasn't for that, I'd be homeless.

I take one or two days to ship an item. If I take longer I apologize to the buyer and send a partial refund for the postage. If you're buying stuff from sellers who take two weeks to ship then it's your own fault for not looking at his feedback ratings.

[Jaruff]

Considering I've been surviving by the skin of my teeth from eBay sales for the past six years because there's no jobs where I live, yes, maybe eBay isn't for me. But if it wasn't for that, I'd be homeless.

I take one or two days to ship an item. If I take longer I apologize to the buyer and send a partial refund for the postage. If you're buying stuff from sellers who take two weeks to ship then it's your own fault for not looking at his feedback ratings.

I'm in the same boat. The most ironic part is that the job isn't nearly as easy as people think. I'd love to have an actual job right now; would be far less stressful than what I do now. Before the upcoming change with how the 20% discount is offered, I had listed my handling as three business days. Ironically, I noticed my DSR's went up when I changed that to five business days but shipped within 2-3. Now I'm in the process of updating everything with 14-day refunds and one-day handling. It's a pain in the ass.

[Space Fury]

I will say this:

You can have a handling time of 3 days and ship within a 1-3 day window and still get bad dsr's. The buyer doesn't care what the terms are because they didn't bother to read them. As far as ebay goes, they LET the buyer leave those ratings instead of having a checks and balance system in place. You can't leave a rating for shipping rates IF the seller offered free shipping, so they can do it. If you ship with ebay or paypal, they KNOW when you shipped and even upload the tracking for you. If they can do that, then they can BLOCK the buyer from leaving a low dsr for ship time. If your handling time is 3 days and you ship properly, but the buyer didn't get it as THEY deemed on-time, you get bad ratings. ebay keeps those ratings secret, so you don't know who your accuser is. ebay also uses those numbers for your discounts, item placement and other perks, and not to mentions warnings and suspensions yet they say its just a buyers opinion.

Another thing: If you have a transaction that was mutually cancelled, WHY can that buyer leave feedback and DSR's when NO item exchanged hands. There can't be a ship time, ship rate or item as described IF the buyer doesn't have it.

Enough with Indian reps named Jack and Steve. American names aren't fooling anyone. Go watch the movie OUTSOURCED, it mentions this very tactic.

ebay doesn't care about the sellers who MAKE them their money. I would NEVER do 1 day handling or 14 day refunds as they are promoting.
Imagine selling a game or a book under those terms: The buyer can copy the game or beat it and then return it back to you OR can read the book and do the same.

[Bojay1997]

Of course it's that simple. If the buyer literally didn't pay until after you shipped, it would be different, but here, the service you are using to sell the item is simply holding the funds until both parties have completed their agreed upon bargain (i.e. you've shipped and I've paid). I have had several bad experiences on Ebay recently with sellers who have either taken weeks to ship (and contrary to your claims, most people don't leave negative feedback even for slow shippers, so there is literally no way to tell) or have sent me an item which doesn't conform to their description which I have had to send back. In one case, the seller sent my refund as a check rather than refunding through Paypal meaning I had to wait to receive the check and for it to clear. Essentially, there are some sellers who are living sale to sale and they present a risk to buyers like myself and to Ebay which ultimately will get stuck with any financial impacts from having to refund buyers like myself. I get that the economy is bad, but running an Ebay business is like any other business, if you aren't solvent or liquid, you have no business doing it.

It's really not that simple.

1. Does the employee at McDonald's present your food before you pay them? Rarely. I've never known a rental place to let you take a game/movie/whatever home before you paid them. Same situation here. I've never shipped anything out to another DP member without receiving their payment nor has any DP member shipped an item to me before I paid them. I wouldn't expect them to either.

2. Tired of sellers that take a while to ship? Pay attention to the rankings before placing a bid. It's the same argument uninformed bidders used about shipping costs before eBay started "taxing" it. "This is such a great deal but shipping is so expensive." One should always perform due diligence before giving another person money. Besides, eBay is "fixing" this by holding the 20% discount for Top-Rated Sellers hostage by forcing "one day handling" on listings.



Escrow makes sense for expensive transactions. Escrow for a $10-20 item? Ridiculous overhead for both the small business owner, large business owner, and eBay itself. It's just silly and I highly doubt it will ever happen in the US. However, the fact that eBay is considering this change is very disappointing.

[Kitsune Sniper]

In one case, the seller sent my refund as a check rather than refunding through Paypal meaning I had to wait to receive the check and for it to clear.

Again, that's your own fault.

You paid via PayPal, you get a refund via PayPal. You should've contacted ebay, or filed a chargeback and destroyed the check.

[Jaruff]

Again, that's your own fault.

You paid via PayPal, you get a refund via PayPal. You should've contacted ebay, or filed a chargeback and destroyed the check.

Or cash the check AND petition PayPal for a refund.

Evil, I know.

Of course it's that simple. If the buyer literally didn't pay until after you shipped, it would be different, but here, the service you are using to sell the item is simply holding the funds until both parties have completed their agreed upon bargain (i.e. you've shipped and I've paid). I have had several bad experiences on Ebay recently with sellers who have either taken weeks to ship (and contrary to your claims, most people don't leave negative feedback even for slow shippers, so there is literally no way to tell) or have sent me an item which doesn't conform to their description which I have had to send back. In one case, the seller sent my refund as a check rather than refunding through Paypal meaning I had to wait to receive the check and for it to clear. Essentially, there are some sellers who are living sale to sale and they present a risk to buyers like myself and to Ebay which ultimately will get stuck with any financial impacts from having to refund buyers like myself. I get that the economy is bad, but running an Ebay business is like any other business, if you aren't solvent or liquid, you have no business doing it.

Once again, due diligence will save you the bad experiences. Buyers may not leave negative feedback but they almost always will leave bad DSR's. If the seller's DSR for shipping time is in the 4.5-4.6 range or lower, you probably shouldn't use them if you want a swift delivery. MY DSR's as of today are 4.9/4.9/5.0/5.0. It's not hard to find sellers that have similar rankings to buy from. eBay even lets you filter results from Top-Rated sellers; use that if you want a guarantee of receiving your item quickly. It sounds like you want to see everyone punished because you've had a few bad transactions.

I don't know how often you make purchases but I haven't had an issue with a purchase in probably 2-3 years.

[Bojay1997]

Again, that's your own fault.

You paid via PayPal, you get a refund via PayPal. You should've contacted ebay, or filed a chargeback and destroyed the check.

Not every situation requires the intervention of Ebay and I'm not going to make a bad situation worse by forcing the seller to refund money they don't have in their Paypal account likely causing their sellers account to be temporarily frozen. It doesn't change my point that there are many sellers living on the financial edge and they present a risk to buyers and to Ebay. This new policy makes perfect sense and creates an even safer buying environment. I'm sorry your personal financial situation is so poor and I do hope you find a job soon, however, I fail to see how requiring you to provide proof that you have shipped before Ebay releases your funds is going to create great hardship for you or anyone else.

[Bojay1997]

I buy 75-100 items a month, with roughly 5% of those being problematic on average. It's 4-5 items a month that either have to be returned or ship late or are improperly packaged. I buy video games almost 100% of the time and generally, I only buy items in real auctions from individual mom and pop sellers as opposed to BINs, large sellers with stock photos, etc.. so I don't have the luxury of only using "top rated" sellers. In fact, many of the sellers I buy from have under 100 feedback. In any event, my experiences is that people rarely leave honest feedback. I have had very negative experiences with sellers who have perfect DSRs. I have also had great experiences with people with less than perfect DSRs. It seems to have little correlation to real world experiences. So, as a buyer rather than a seller, I strongly applaud this protocol and I hope Ebay implements it here as well.

Or cash the check AND petition PayPal for a refund.

Evil, I know.



Once again, due diligence will save you the bad experiences. Buyers may not leave negative feedback but they almost always will leave bad DSR's. If the seller's DSR for shipping time is in the 4.5-4.6 range or lower, you probably shouldn't use them if you want a swift delivery. MY DSR's as of today are 4.9/4.9/5.0/5.0. It's not hard to find sellers that have similar rankings to buy from. eBay even lets you filter results from Top-Rated sellers; use that if you want a guarantee of receiving your item quickly. It sounds like you want to see everyone punished because you've had a few bad transactions.

I don't know how often you make purchases but I haven't had an issue with a purchase in probably 2-3 years.

[Kitsune Sniper]

Not every situation requires the intervention of Ebay and I'm not going to make a bad situation worse by forcing the seller to refund money they don't have in their Paypal account likely causing their sellers account to be temporarily frozen. It doesn't change my point that there are many sellers living on the financial edge and they present a risk to buyers and to Ebay. This new policy makes perfect sense and creates an even safer buying environment. I'm sorry your personal financial situation is so poor and I do hope you find a job soon, however, I fail to see how requiring you to provide proof that you have shipped before Ebay releases your funds is going to create great hardship for you or anyone else.

If the guy issued a check then he had money in his bank account. You could've waited for him to pull money from the bank account so he'd have enough money to pay you instead of having to wait around 10 days for the check to arrive and clear.

I'm sorry you have such poor judgment when it comes to sellers. :P

[Bojay1997]

Again, not the point and frankly, it would have taken Ebay far longer to have resolved the dispute than just cashing the check. Like I said, not everything rises to the level of requiring intervention. Things can be worked out by just communicating. The point is that there is no reason a legitimate seller would have any objection to Ebay holding payment until they provide proof of shipment. If you don't like it, there are plenty of other ways to sell things including on forums, other auction sites, Craigslist, etc...where payment can be instant or in advance. I suspect that you realize that Ebay provides a huge market and potential for profit those other sites don't which is why you and all the other sellers who constantly complain when Ebay takes additional consumer protection steps never end up walking away.

If the guy issued a check then he had money in his bank account. You could've waited for him to pull money from the bank account so he'd have enough money to pay you instead of having to wait around 10 days for the check to arrive and clear.

I'm sorry you have such poor judgment when it comes to sellers. :P

[Kitsune Sniper]

Things can be worked out by just communicating.

And you didn't think of asking the seller to do what I just suggested?

[Cornelius]

I don't find this to be a big deal either. I'm a top rated seller now for a few months (maybe more) and well,I actually do always ship within 1 business day, often same day, so I'd be pretty unaffected by the change. And I only pull money from Paypal so that I can use my CC to pay for shipping because of their stupid setup (that totally makes sense from their bottom line perspective). I just like to get my 1.25% cash back. I'm that cheap.