Resurface discs good, bad, or just ugly, Do you think they bring down the value?

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Without seeing a picture I wouldn't have believed resurfaced discs could look that good.

The problem seems to be the prevalence of substandard resurfacing technology and/or incorrect usage of good resurfacing technology are FAR more commonplace than good resurfacing machines and/or people who know exactly how to use them.

Also, some discs simply can not be resurfaced based on the damage that they've incurred.

Optimal disc resurfacing should show no immediate indicators of the process. No lines, no swirls, no remnant fluid/particulate matter, ie you'd never know that it was a resurfaced disc unless you saw it pre-resurface and post-resurface to know the difference.

Anybody who thinks that a resurface can't make a disc 99.99% perfect (or as a close to perfect as a visual check without some type of microscopic visual investigation aid can be) simply needs to experience the event occur correctly personally with their own disc.

[wiggyx]

I had some PS2 discs resurfaced yesterday at a video rental shop. Mirror finish, as seen here:

http://i815.photobucket.com/albums/z...1/100_0202.jpg

http://i815.photobucket.com/albums/z...1/100_0201.jpg

That does look good, but it's way out of focus. Manual focus would be the key to getting a really decent shot of the actual surface and not the window reflected in it

[sloan]

The first image is somewhat blurry, but that second image is not out of focus. I deliberately tried to get the reflection of the tree in that shot. If you are really interested in the surface detail of that game disc, look at the sections of that picture that show the window frame reflected in the disc. There is not a scratch or buff mark in that surface. If there was, it would show in the green tree foliage reflected in that disc. Notice the detail in the foliage of the tree and the crisp edges of the window frame reflected onto the shiny disc surface and tell me that picture is out of focus.

[MachineGex]

I have a little experience in this area. For over 7 years, I buffed over 100 discs a day(6 days a week). It all depends on the person working the machine, and to some extent the disc machine itself. If the scratch can be felt with your finger nail(like a clicking noise) then it is gonna take some real care to get it looking perfect. If it is just a bunch of scuffs and light scratches, then it should look brand if the person is good. You got keep your machine in proper order(pads, solution, papers, etc.) or you will get some bad swirl or "half-moon" swirls.

Also, if you hold the disc up to the light and can see thru the scratch....... it is garbage. The label side is much more important than the bottom side. The bottom can be repaired, the label can't. I have keeped my older Azuradisc machine. They make a newer model, but I like using the older version.

[wiggyx]

The first image is somewhat blurry, but that second image is not out of focus. I deliberately tried to get the reflection of the tree in that shot. If you are really interested in the surface detail of that game disc, look at the sections of that picture that show the window frame reflected in the disc. There is not a scratch or buff mark in that surface. If there was, it would show in the green tree foliage reflected in that disc. Notice the detail in the foliage of the tree and the crisp edges of the window frame reflected onto the shiny disc surface and tell me that picture is out of focus.

Well the reflection won't show imperfections as well as focusing on the disc itself. I'll take a couple of shots to show you what I mean...


Don't get me wrong, I'm not disputing that it's nice and clean. I just wanted to explain why that isn't actually the best way to illustrate exactly how clean it is.

[Rev. Link]

I do disc cleanings all day long at my store, with a JFJ machine. If done properly, then yes, it comes out looking like a brand new disc (I know it's been said a lot in this thread, I'm just adding my support). I've taken games that literally looked like someone took steel wool to them and made them look like new.

And yes, as it's been said, PSX games have a tendency to show little swirls more than standard discs. You just need to give them a little extra care to get all that out. So really, all you guys that are so against this, you just need to find better people to do your resurfacing for you.

Our disc machine allows us to guarantee all our used disc games through the life of the game in the condition we sell them in, because we know that when they leave our store they do so without a scratch on them. We also have people come in all the time with games that they bought from other places (*cough*gamestop*) that don't work because they're all scratched up. We fix it for them, then they start buying all their games from us.

As for hurting the value of high-end collectibles, that's a touchy subject. Personally, I feel as long as a game works it shouldn't be resurfaced. A few light scratches are tolerable to me. But if it's got a lot of scratches, or doesn't work at all, then I would want it resurfaced. And from a retailer's point of view, it gets even harder. Like I said earlier, we guarantee our games through the life of the game. Which means if you buy a game from us and 4 months later, when you get toward the end, it starts freezing up on you in a certain spot, as long as it's in the same condition it was when you bought it and you still have your receipt we will fix it for you for free (or replace it, or exchange it, etc.). So when we see any kind of marks, even if they look minor, we usually will buff them out just to avoid that kind of situation. And we do sell a lot of collectible PSX stuff, both online and in the store, and no one has ever once complained about the disc looking like it had a bad resurfacing job done to it.

[Opti]

I have Game Haven by me do mine, and they always looks like the picture above. i bought a used PS2 game from them that didnt work, when I verified it was the disc and not the PS2 I took it back to them for a warranty and the guy said these scratches are your problem, and he resurfaced it. I was skeptical but it worked perfectly after that and still does.

I had a thrashed copy of FF7 and the guy told me he didnt know if it would help or not but he would try. He didnt charge me, because after he was done he didnt think they would work, but it did and Im still playing them.

[kedawa]

The only legitimate concern that people might have is that it effectively erases all(or most) evidence of abuse, so down the road you may find that what looked like a mint condition disc based on it's underside actually has structural or data damage.
Other than that, it's just an obsessive fixation.

[chrisballer]

The only legitimate concern that people might have is that it effectively erases all(or most) evidence of abuse, so down the road you may find that what looked like a mint condition disc based on it's underside actually has structural or data damage.
Other than that, it's just an obsessive fixation.

My thoughts as well. Although, I do not know how many layers are on the average disc and how much can come off before there is data damage. Maybe someone can school me?

[wiggyx]

The data layer on a single sided disc is right under the label sandwiched between the polycarbonate plastic disc that makes up about 90-95% of the mass of the disc and the thin layer of resin on top. The only way for that buffer to hit the data layer is to either load the disc upside-down, or leave the damn thing running for like 12 hours.

[chrisballer]

The data layer on a single sided disc is right under the label sandwiched between the polycarbonate plastic disc that makes up about 90-95% of the mass of the disc and the thin layer of resin on top. The only way for that buffer to hit the data layer is to either load the disc upside-down, or leave the damn thing running for like 12 hours.

That is what I thought, but I was not sure.

Thank you

[wiggyx]

No prob

As an FYI, if it isn't obvious, it's REALLY easy to scratch them from the top. I always hold PS1 discs up to a light before buying to check for scratches

[RP2A03]

The data layer on a single sided disc is right under the label sandwiched between the polycarbonate plastic disc that makes up about 90-95% of the mass of the disc and the thin layer of resin on top. The only way for that buffer to hit the data layer is to either load the disc upside-down, or leave the damn thing running for like 12 hours.

Yes, but if you take away too much of the polycarbonate the laser might not be able to focus on the pits; or at the very least will have more problems with dust and scratches since the refraction index will be lowered and the data will be viewed from a more direct angle.

[wiggyx]

Yes, but if you take away too much of the polycarbonate the laser might not be able to focus on the pits; or at the very least will have more problems with dust and scratches since the refraction index will be lowered and the data will be viewed from a more direct angle.

I'm pretty sure you'd have to all but destroy the CD in order for that to be an issue.

[goatdan]

Yeah, the scratches on the top are really what you need to be worried about. That is what a lot of people tend to think is "disc rot" but it is really just "scratched topside of disc." The data layer sits VERY high in the disc, and a lot of people erroneously set them down upside down to "protect" them, which is far more likely to actually cause data loss than getting a minor scratch on the bottom.

There are most definitely some discs that are unrepairable, but whomever was making the argument it's like buying a car that was in an accident that got fixed is wrong. If the scratches are deep enough to break the disc, the disc is broken, and no amount of resurfacing or buffing will fix it.

The biggest thing is that you really need people who take pride in their disc buffing. I have a couple friends at a store that I frequent all the time who do my buffing as I mentioned, and I can take them discs that are beat to hell, and like I said before, I cannot figure out what ones are what once I put them all together. I have had literally hundreds of discs resurfaced by them, and I have never had one customer come back and complain that we sent them a resurfaced disc.

If you can tell it's been resurfaced, you just got someone that didn't have the skill for it that did it.

[chrisballer]

If you can tell it's been resurfaced, you just got someone that didn't have the skill for it that did it.

Exactly.

There is a place by me that does an awesome job.

[kedawa]

Yes, but if you take away too much of the polycarbonate the laser might not be able to focus on the pits; or at the very least will have more problems with dust and scratches since the refraction index will be lowered and the data will be viewed from a more direct angle.

I don't think those optical properties really come in to play, since the laser beam is perpendicular to the surface of the disc.

[jammajup]

Just for personal use I really think that the important thing is that the game works fully with all levels loading and all audio tracks working fine,if you collect to re-sell at a later date well that might be different.

[wiggyx]

I had some PS2 discs resurfaced yesterday at a video rental shop. Mirror finish, as seen here:

Here's what I was talking about.

Focused elsewhere.




Focused on surface.




And again, I don't want people thinking that I'm saying the disc shown isn't in great shape, just that photographing it the correct way would better illustrate how well the job was done.