I got a new Retro gaming TV that is a dream come true... Check out Bonk on it

[TonyTheTiger]

The sync signal is used to generate the required timing inside the monitor (or TV) so that a viewable picture can be built up. Otherwise the picture will roll, or be distorted/skewed.

Typical computers via VGA output RGB (at 31KHz) with separate Horizontal and Vertical sync lines, where as the majority of game consoles that have RGB output (at 15KHz) a single "composite" sync for picture sync.

Most euro TV's and many broadcast class monitors (like the Sony PVM's) can also use composite video as the sync signal. Most of these consoles (with the notably exception of the Playstation series) also output a straight composite sync (some refer to it as "raw" sync). However the Euro Scart spec actually calls for using composite video as the sync that's why most Scart cables you buy actually are wired so that composite video is used as sync for RGB rather than composite sync.

Some monitors (like the NEC XM29) need composite sync (or H+V sync) to display the picture and aren't capable of using composite video for the sync information. In that case the cable needs to be rewired for composite sync or you can use a small sync "stripper" circuit (like the LM1881) to pull the sync info out of the composite video and pass along the composite sync to the monitor.



In a nutshell, Sony PVM's are really great retro console monitors. lol

Thanks, those Sony monitors seem like an all around good deal.

[WCP]

Regarding the Wii:


Did you go into the PVM menu and try the other RGB selections ? The first time I hooked up my GameCube in RGB, it had a weird colorization to it, and then I went into the PVM menu (the regular menu, not the service menu). There was some options of how to get the sync from RGB. I can't remember what the selections where, but if you go into the menu, you'll probably see what I'm talking about. You might have already tried that, but just in case you didn't, might as well give it a try.

[wingzrow]

Regarding the Wii:


Did you go into the PVM menu and try the other RGB selections ? The first time I hooked up my GameCube in RGB, it had a weird colorization to it, and then I went into the PVM menu (the regular menu, not the service menu). There was some options of how to get the sync from RGB. I can't remember what the selections where, but if you go into the menu, you'll probably see what I'm talking about. You might have already tried that, but just in case you didn't, might as well give it a try.

Believe me, I tried every setting on the PVM I could. After some google-fu, I've deduced that the Wii displays in RGB, but ONLY if it's in PAL mode. That's right, RGB is locked out through software on NTSC systems.

I'm going to see if the people at GBAtemp can figure this out for me.

Sure I could change my wii's region to pal through hacking, but I think games would play slower (as do all pal games) if I went that route.

[wingzrow]

Here's a few more pictures.

[wingzrow]

Hooray for triple posting. I figured out how to get the Wii to display through RGB.

Nintendo locked out NTSC consoles from doing it, so you actually have to force your wii into PAL mode through hacking in order to display any emulators right, otherwise all you get is a red screen, but this allows you to manually set emulators on the system back to NTSC, so it all works out.

If broken is reading this, pass o this info to anyone else with a NTSC Wii that's trying to display in RGB, because it isn't easy.

[dukenukem]

Nice shots man.I am gonna be getting me one or more of these sony monitors next year with my income tax.

[WCP]

Here's the thing about playing emulators on the Wii, and then having the Wii output in RGB. You aren't actually gettting "true" RGB from those emulated systems. Now, I'm not going to say that the picture quality is bad or anything, but it's not the true, legtimate, analog RGB that you would get from the actual hardware.

However.... I think there actually is a way to get true, analog RGB from emulated systems, but you would need a PC, along with a special video card, and the specific emulator would have to include an option to allow it to output a RGB signal in the proper way that the special video card could actually send the virtual equivalent of a legit RGB signal. ( I know that sounds confusing ). I'm actually looking into doing the exact same thing myself, except not with emulators of gaming systems, but instead with MAME. There is a special video card that supposedly works with certain versions of MAME, to get a legimiate RGB signal to an analog RGB monitor. It was designed specifically to work with Arcade Cabinents and the monitors inside arcade cabinents (normally a Wells-Gardner monitor).

In theory, it's possible that this could also work with a console emulator, but again, the console emulator would have to be programmed in a way that it could take advantage of the special video card to actually do it.


To make a long story short, I think you're better off playing the real hardware in RGB, and not using emulators on your Wii. I understand the convenience of it all, but just get Everdrive flashcards for your various systems, if you're looking for convenience.

[wingzrow]

Oh believe me, I noticed. Being able to swap between RGB connections on the front of my PVM with the press of a button was a godsend in realizing this.

I may have to get an everdrive eventually just for that reason.

[WCP]

Oh believe me, I noticed. Being able to swap between RGB connections on the front of my PVM with the press of a button was a godsend in realizing this.

I may have to get an everdrive eventually just for that reason.

After getting my PVM, I decided to get Everdrive flashcards for the Genesis and TG-16. They cost almost $90 each with shipping and everything, but well worth it. I've been hardcore into the early Sega Genesis lately, and I just leave the flash cart in there and play tons of games on it.

[Jack_Burton_BYOAC]

Here's the thing about playing emulators on the Wii, and then having the Wii output in RGB. You aren't actually gettting "true" RGB from those emulated systems. Now, I'm not going to say that the picture quality is bad or anything, but it's not the true, legtimate, analog RGB that you would get from the actual hardware.

However.... I think there actually is a way to get true, analog RGB from emulated systems, but you would need a PC, along with a special video card, and the specific emulator would have to include an option to allow it to output a RGB signal in the proper way that the special video card could actually send the virtual equivalent of a legit RGB signal. ( I know that sounds confusing ). I'm actually looking into doing the exact same thing myself, except not with emulators of gaming systems, but instead with MAME. There is a special video card that supposedly works with certain versions of MAME, to get a legimiate RGB signal to an analog RGB monitor. It was designed specifically to work with Arcade Cabinents and the monitors inside arcade cabinents (normally a Wells-Gardner monitor).

In theory, it's possible that this could also work with a console emulator, but again, the console emulator would have to be programmed in a way that it could take advantage of the special video card to actually do it.


To make a long story short, I think you're better off playing the real hardware in RGB, and not using emulators on your Wii. I understand the convenience of it all, but just get Everdrive flashcards for your various systems, if you're looking for convenience.

How is a Wii not outputting "true" RGB? As far as I know it has no problems outputting SNES games and the like in 240p.

If you are talking about how the Wii might be scaling the color from 8-bit to 16-bit or what-have-you then that is certainly happening, however, I believe that it can be mapped to be functionally identical.

There's also the issue of the bandwidth of the video signal, but that's so far down the rabbit hole it's hard to see the sun

[kedawa]

How is a Wii not outputting "true" RGB? As far as I know it has no problems outputting SNES games and the like in 240p.

If you are talking about how the Wii might be scaling the color from 8-bit to 16-bit or what-have-you then that is certainly happening, however, I believe that it can be mapped to be functionally identical.

There's also the issue of the bandwidth of the video signal, but that's so far down the rabbit hole it's hard to see the sun

SNES games aren't natively 240p, though.

SNES Video modes:
Progressive: 256 × 224, 512 × 224, 256 × 239, 512 × 239
Interlaced: 512 × 448, 512 × 478

[Jack_Burton_BYOAC]

The difference between 224 and 240 modes can be a bit tricky. Certain consoles use all the lines for graphics, some of them are just used for blanking. Certain SNES games actually do output 239 lines of graphics, but you are correct in that are usually only showing 224.


However, when I say the Wii is outputting a native resolution signal that means that it is displaying 224 lines plus 16 blanking lines, thus 240p. If you wish you can also say 224p if that makes more sense to you. It should also support all the other modes the SNES is capable of displaying.

[soundguy77]

Just had to register to the forums to share these pics of my Sony PVM w/ Scart to BNC RGB cable. The sharpness alone is completely flawless. It's almost too good. TACK sharp. Pics don't do it justice. The text in NBA Jam speaks for itself.

RGB



Before (Composite)



After (RGB)



Before (Composite)



After (RGB)

[ccovell]

RGB reveals the dithering in Genesis games, but otherwise it's absolutely beautiful.

[WCP]

Some people think that RGB monitors actually make the Genesis, TG-16, SNES, etc, etc look worse. Because it shows every flaw in the game. They say that the game wasn't really designed to be played in such clarity. That the programmers knew the limitations of the average TV, and actually used those limitations to make their games better, and by using RGB monitors we are defeating the purpose.


To hell with all that. All I know is, with RGB, it's clear, it's colorful, it's crisp. Yes, I can see every flaw. But I love the flaws. The flaws add character. They just let you know what era of games that you're playing. The detail is what really makes me smile though...

[substantial_snake]

Some people think that RGB monitors actually make the Genesis, TG-16, SNES, etc, etc look worse. Because it shows every flaw in the game. They say that the game wasn't really designed to be played in such clarity. That the programmers knew the limitations of the average TV, and actually used those limitations to make their games better, and by using RGB monitors we are defeating the purpose.


To hell with all that. All I know is, with RGB, it's clear, it's colorful, it's crisp. Yes, I can see every flaw. But I love the flaws. The flaws add character. They just let you know what era of games that you're playing. The detail is what really makes my smile though...

I really wish now that I jumped on that ebay seller you posted earlier in this thread!

The shots here are already significantly better theneven my Scart-RGB settup here, really envious now. lol

[Gameguy]

RGB reveals the dithering in Genesis games, but otherwise it's absolutely beautiful.

That's the first thing I noticed when I saw those pics, it's just not looking right.

[StealthLurker]

Picked up a NOS PVM-20M2MDU last night. VERY HAPPY.

PVM number 5. RGB CRT number 8.



.

[LaughingMAN.S9]

I just bought a Sony bvm on eBay for 250 shipped and now im on the hunt for individual playstation and Saturn scart cables, i already posted this in broken's scart sale thread over in the neo geo forums but figured i might as well ask here to


Are there any particular euro scart cables i should be on the lookout for or trying to avoid? I already kno about Japanese scart cables


Also is it worth it to buy phono adapters for playstation component cables to hook up my original 60 gig ps3 to play ps2 games exclusively?

Would there even be any appreciable difference using this method over just running component or hdmi to my LCD? I guess I just want to see what ps2 games look like in rgb on the Sony bvm

[WCP]

I just bought a Sony bvm on eBay for 250 shipped

Wow, that's very dangerous man. I hope everything works out, and you get one in great condition and it lasts you a very long time, but it's certainly a bit dangerous to be paying that much for a PVM (even a BVM) off Ebay that you can't personally verify that it's up to par. I hope the one you got is like 2002 or newer, and has lower hours on it. If you end up getting one in great condition, it will certainly be worth every penny you spent, but it's still a bit of a gamble to buy one off Ebay like that. I would normally prefer to find one in driving distance, and actually drive to the place and test it out, to make sure I'm getting something up to par. I've had some bad experiences in the past with various used PVM monitors. I will say that usually my bad experiences have come from PVM's from the late 90's, and your BVM is probably much newer.

Also is it worth it to buy phono adapters for playstation component cables to hook up my original 60 gig ps3 to play ps2 games exclusively?

Would there even be any appreciable difference using this method over just running component or hdmi to my LCD? I guess I just want to see what ps2 games look like in rgb on the Sony bvm

Well, I know that if you hooked up an actual PS2 system to your BVM, you will notice a difference between how it looks on your BVM, and how it looks in component. If you had two PS2's, you could actually do a side by side comparison. The difference isn't going to be very substantial, but you'll notice a slight improvement in the overall visual quality. I remember playing San Andreas on a nice big HDTV in component, and then playing it on my RGB monitor, and there was definitely a slight difference. It wasn't huge, but it's there.


I'm guessing it would be the same thing with your phat PS3, but I've never tried it myself.