PS4 Not Playing Used Games, What Is This Hobby Coming To?

[G-Boobie]

Also, an awful lot of Steam sales and such are small casual titles and older titles that tend to be smaller in size. The ESA survey a year or two ago showed that the percentage of digital sales against physical sales was significantly higher for dollar's than it was by gigabytes distributed. That means that the percentage of those large high value projects reaching PC gamer's via optical disc are significantly higher than the amount of sales by digital and retail. Digital's dominance on things like Skyrim (Assuming that saw an optical disc release...something I can't swear on since I bought the 360 release) isn't nearly at the same level as it is on the smaller more casual products that are increasingly growing more popular on PC's than things like that use to dominate like FPS's, flight simulator's, and RTS games. The stuff more applicable to the console world on PC's still have a large amount of retail sales presence even at this late date.

You are incorrect.

If you were to check the "top sellers" tab on Steam at any point in time, and especially during their sale events, nearly all of the top one hundred sellers will be "hardcore" games, and most of them are also what you'd consider "Triple A". These games are usually in the realm of five gigabytes and up; it hasn't affected sales, and it hasn't affected installs. Here's a fun fact for you; if you were to find a copy of any boxed PC game on a shelf that wasn't produced by Blizzard, do you know what you'll find in the manual slot? A Steam code.

A quick look at the top sellers tab at this very moment has Far Cry 3, a nine and a half gigabyte game, at the very top, with ARMA II, Black Ops II, and Skyrim right behind it. All of those with the exception of ARMA are available on consoles. Dishonored and XCom made their money on PC; they didn't do nearly as well on the consoles, at least according to their respective publishers. I think that bandwidth caps effect people far less than you think, though of course they're ridiculous things that need to go away.

One wonders whether or not you've been on Steam lately. Or have heard of iTunes, Amazon Video, Hulu, Spotify, Rhapsody, and all the other services that have been quietly undermining the physical media space. There's a reason that Best Buy (or whatever your local equivalent is) carries far, far fewer movies and CDs than they did even five years ago. You'll see the games section go that same way pretty soon.

We'll have optical drives on the upcoming generation of consoles, and that will be the last time. It doesn't make sense financially to keep physical copies around; not from a manufacturing overhead standpoint, not from a used sales standpoint, and not from a re-selling standpoint. The bandwidth is there, whether the ISPs want to admit it or not. This has ALREADY HAPPENED with music, it's happening very quickly with movies and television. Games will be no exception.

[Leo_A]

Seriously?

I thought it was those odd looking colored Apple computers that were integrated into their monitor from the late 1990's.

So nope, I'm really not sure what product it's specifically in reference to since it surely can't be something from 15 years ago.

I'm really not an Apple fan.

Leo_A: I've been doing a lot of PC shopping lately. Admittedly mostly tablet-laptops but finding one with an optical drive has been a distinct rarity. CD/DVDs are going the way of the floppy it seems.

Wasn't it always a rarity for a tablet-laptop to have an optical drive? That's one of the common eliminations to get the size and cost down as low as possible.

With actual full size laptops, optical drives sure still seem like standard equipment rather than an optional addition. Just bought one a couple of months ago and did a lot of shopping around with companies like HP and didn't notice any great shift in that area.

Not that I'm saying my word is the definitive overview of the industry, but that's what my experience as a consumer was just weeks ago.

You are incorrect.

If you were to check the "top sellers" tab on Steam at any point in time, and especially during their sale events, nearly all of the top one hundred sellers will be "hardcore" games, and most of them are also what you'd consider "Triple A".

I don't see why this proves that I'm incorrect.

While what I saw wasn't Steam specific and was instead about digital PC distribution as a whole, I suspect it just proves that there's a heck of a lot of consumer dollar's going into Steam and similar services spread across a wide range of casual titles where as the "hardcore" traditional segment is spread across a smaller range of high value titles.

Like I said, the ESA claims that the percentage of dollars spent digitally versus at retail in the PC world is significantly higher than the percentage of the actual GB amount of PC gaming content being distributed online compared to retail.

There must be some explanation for that and while I can't say with 100% confidence that there's no other possible reason behind what they noticed, the only thing I can think of at least is that a consumer is somewhat more inclined to still buy the latest $50 release still on optical disc than they are to buy something on disc that would cost $20, $10, or less just to download.

One wonders whether or not you've been on Steam lately. Or have heard of iTunes, Amazon Video, Hulu, Spotify, Rhapsody, and all the other services that have been quietly undermining the physical media space. There's a reason that Best Buy (or whatever your local equivalent is) carries far, far fewer movies and CDs than they did even five years ago. You'll see the games section go that same way pretty soon.

One wonder's what this has to do with if console's have 5 years left of optical drives or more.

Considering I've been regularly downloading things to console's and handheld's since the original Xbox (Look up my Xbox Live profile for instance and you'd see that XBLA games represent the bulk of my playtime on my 360 over the past six years... hardly a sign that I'm as behind the times as you're making me out to be). Heck, I even have dozens of videos I've bought off the 360's video marketplace and several on my PS3. And I'm regularly on Steam and have all but been buying PC releases exclusively via digital means for years, have a good bit of video content on iTunes and Amazon, was a user of Hulu watching the classic tv shows they had available like The Donna Reed Show several years before they went to a subscriber model, have bought only a couple of music CD's in the past 5 years (Sticking with MP3's almost exclusively), and that I'm an avid viewer of classic tv shows and movies on DVD/HDDVD/Blu-Ray and have watched as that content and other genres have made a retreat from retail over the last half decade (Much of what I buy are in fact not even available at retail and instead are released through programs like Shout Select and various MOD services from companies like WB... and most of my "retail" releases end up having to be bought from Amazon since retailer selection's are so weak these days). So I assure you that I'm quite aware of the shift that's underway.

About the only thing I haven't done is Netflix and that's because their classic movie and tv selection is relatively small every time I've ever looked around it and much of what they do have of interest to me already resides on my DVD/Blu-Ray shelving (And Turner Classic Movies and MeTV on cable and YouTube uploads take up the slack when I don't want to pop a disc in or watch one of the many video download's I've bought). I remember a year ago or so when a friend and his wife that loves classic movies asked me for some suggestions as they tried to decide what to watch on Netflix. I think I went through at least a dozen excellent movies that were very popular at release and have seen perennial television airings since then before they came across one that was actually available. When things like The Pride of the Yankee's is unavailable (The one that sticks out in my mind), their selection isn't too hot for the classic movie category from Hollywood's Golden Age.

Not that it was even relevant to anything that I said. Debating the timeline for console's switching to 100% digital distribution is hardly being in some denial in my own personal LaLaLand like you tried to portray it as. I concede that the shift is happening and never said anything that said it wasn't.

I merely don't think we just have a single generation left of it. I'm all but certain that at least a couple of console's 5-8 years down the road will retain an optical drive and still be experiencing retail releases of software via optical discs in a manner not unlike the role digital has played on the 360 and PS3 this generation where it has represented an important secondary form of distribution. You do realize that digital distribution is still very much a secondary form of distribution on console's today? Why do you think it will likely be on a more even footing this coming generation and then they're going to flip a switch and tell 50% of their business that we're not doing it this way anymore?

Nope, they're weening everyone off the traditional way of doing business and that means time and making the shift be gradual to ease everyone into it. It's not going to be a flip of a switch.

[Gameguy]

I thought it was those odd looking colored Apple computers that were integrated into their monitor from the late 1990's.

So nope, I'm really not sure what product it's specifically in reference to since it surely can't be something from 15 years ago.

I'm really not an Apple fan.

They're all called iMacs now, they just kept making new versions of them. It's their brand of desktop computers. It's like the Nintendo GameBoy, there's several versions of them within the product line.

[Rickstilwell1]

You are incorrect.

If you were to check the "top sellers" tab on Steam at any point in time, and especially during their sale events, nearly all of the top one hundred sellers will be "hardcore" games, and most of them are also what you'd consider "Triple A". These games are usually in the realm of five gigabytes and up; it hasn't affected sales, and it hasn't affected installs. Here's a fun fact for you; if you were to find a copy of any boxed PC game on a shelf that wasn't produced by Blizzard, do you know what you'll find in the manual slot? A Steam code.

A quick look at the top sellers tab at this very moment has Far Cry 3, a nine and a half gigabyte game, at the very top, with ARMA II, Black Ops II, and Skyrim right behind it. All of those with the exception of ARMA are available on consoles. Dishonored and XCom made their money on PC; they didn't do nearly as well on the consoles, at least according to their respective publishers. I think that bandwidth caps effect people far less than you think, though of course they're ridiculous things that need to go away.

One wonders whether or not you've been on Steam lately. Or have heard of iTunes, Amazon Video, Hulu, Spotify, Rhapsody, and all the other services that have been quietly undermining the physical media space. There's a reason that Best Buy (or whatever your local equivalent is) carries far, far fewer movies and CDs than they did even five years ago. You'll see the games section go that same way pretty soon.

We'll have optical drives on the upcoming generation of consoles, and that will be the last time. It doesn't make sense financially to keep physical copies around; not from a manufacturing overhead standpoint, not from a used sales standpoint, and not from a re-selling standpoint. The bandwidth is there, whether the ISPs want to admit it or not. This has ALREADY HAPPENED with music, it's happening very quickly with movies and television. Games will be no exception.

Popular music artists have even been choosing to not bother with disc based releases either for a while now. MC Ren released a new album way back in 2009 and it still hasn't seen a physical release. Shaggy's 2011 albums don't have physical releases either. Billy Corgan decided the majority of his Smashing Pumpkins releases will also be digital only and free as he makes them (Oceania being an exception because the music fit together so well in his opinion) So there's a couple examples.

[G-Boobie]

Popular music artists have even been choosing to not bother with disc based releases either for a while now. MC Ren released a new album way back in 2009 and it still hasn't seen a physical release. Shaggy's 2011 albums don't have physical releases either. Billy Corgan decided the majority of his Smashing Pumpkins releases will also be digital only and free as he makes them (Oceania being an exception because the music fit together so well in his opinion) So there's a couple examples.

Yup. We'll have optical drives in the upcoming generation of consoles, and that will be the end of it. After that, assuming there is another generation, it's digital distribution all the way. Music is already there, movies and television are on their way; there's no reason at all that games won't go there, too. They've already started.

Bandwidth caps are a joke. I supposedly have a 250 gb cap every month, and I don't think I've ever used less than 400 gb. I've never been charged an extra dime, and I probably never will.

[Rickstilwell1]

Yup. We'll have optical drives in the upcoming generation of consoles, and that will be the end of it. After that, assuming there is another generation, it's digital distribution all the way. Music is already there, movies and television are on their way; there's no reason at all that games won't go there, too. They've already started.

Bandwidth caps are a joke. I supposedly have a 250 gb cap every month, and I don't think I've ever used less than 400 gb. I've never been charged an extra dime, and I probably never will.

I have 15MBps DSL with Century Link at my apartment and they don't have bandwidth caps. I'm always uploading and downloading torrents at Underground Gamer to build my rep there. I'm aiming for Elite status. 48 more GB to go! All I am actually seeding that people constantly download are the PS1 demo discs but they must be in pretty high demand if I'm still getting points.

[Leo_A]

Music is already there, movies and television are on their way; there's no reason at all that games won't go there, too. They've already started.

Physical media is still a very significant factor in music and home television viewing.

[Melf]

I seriously want no part of a gaming industry that is all-download. I like to have my property in my hands, not on a drive that may not be compatible with the next generation of hardware. PS5 die and take all your games with it? Just download them again! Oh wait, they're not available on the PS6. Too bad for you!

No one, NO ONE can tell me that we'll definitely have permanent access to purchased downloaded content on a platform after it is discontinued. I also have no faith AT ALL in the industry when it says we will. Remember when CD games would be cheaper than carts because they cost less to make? Remember when digital releases would be cheaper than discs because there were no manufacturing, distribution or retail costs? Yeah.

[Leo_A]

I don't think anyone is saying that any DLC will remain available indefinitely.

[Melf]

That's the problem. If this industry goes entirely digital, what's it going to be like 30 years from now? People will have to rebuy games in patchwork collections, and not all games will get rereleases (good luck getting a rerelease of licensed titles). No flea market buys, no trading with friends, no eBay purchases.

I want no part of an industry like that.

[Robocop2]

That's the problem. If this industry goes entirely digital, what's it going to be like 30 years from now? People will have to rebuy games in patchwork collections, and not all games will get rereleases (good luck getting a rerelease of licensed titles). No flea market buys, no trading with friends, no eBay purchases.

I want no part of an industry like that.

Sadly; I dont really think the folks in Corporate really care about the second hand market especially 10+ years down the line. What money does that make them? As a lover of old things it makes me sad but the reality is in the modern age its all too easy to actually do this. Do you really think that back in the 90's if Nintendo and Sega could have created a system whereby you had to buy a game new to play it and only on your own individual system they would have not done it? No company is a saint nor cares about old franchises/games (unless they can milk it in the future in some way that is) It doesn't make me enjoy their games any less but it is the truth.

The tech exists now and that is why it's going to happen eventually. That having been said; preventing the ability to play used games won't bring back supposed lost profits that the poor developers are experiencing. Making fewer shitty games with million dollar plus budgets might help that problem. Of course as the tech evolves I guess costs are only going to go up for production of any game.

Incidentally; did I miss the news that this is actually going to be a feature of the PS4?

[kedawa]

Remember when CD games would be cheaper than carts because they cost less to make?

I remember this quite clearly. Sega CD games were far cheaper than Genesis games, and I would say on average, I payed about half as much for new PSX games as I did for N64 games. Prices have come down. I can't say the same for movies and music. All the savings that resulted from the move to optical media were absorbed by greedy cartels.

Remember when digital releases would be cheaper than discs because there were no manufacturing, distribution or retail costs?

That's largely been the case for digital downloads on Windows. Stuff is reasonably priced, and it goes on sale frequently. That doesn't happen on consoles right now. I don't know if it's because of the platform holder's greed and monopoly over DD on their respective consoles, or if it's just a tactic to stay friendly with B&M chains, but it won't last in the face of competition.

[Rickstilwell1]

That's the problem. If this industry goes entirely digital, what's it going to be like 30 years from now? People will have to rebuy games in patchwork collections, and not all games will get rereleases (good luck getting a rerelease of licensed titles). No flea market buys, no trading with friends, no eBay purchases.

I want no part of an industry like that.

It's all like what if people started trading Wii, Wii U, Xbox 360 and PS3 systems on craigslist and ebay to play each other's discontinued digital download games. "I'll trade you my PS3 with Sonic 4 Episodes I & II downloaded for yours with Vandal-Hearts: Flames of Judgment" -> "No way pal; unless you've got an RPG on yours"

Or scenario 2 - the crazy ebay listing:

Xbox 360 with 100 XBLA games downloaded system cost + $200 (hey I had to pay for each of these digital titles so you have to as well). If digital titles were hard enough to find and unable to be backed up/pirated, I could see systems with certain ones becoming valuable to some. In the short term with what current systems we have, all being hackable I don't see it yet. Somebody must have backed up all the games that have been pulled from the online stores right?

[Gameguy]

Do you really think that back in the 90's if Nintendo and Sega could have created a system whereby you had to buy a game new to play it and only on your own individual system they would have not done it?

In a way they tried. So many games and bonus content are gone forever. There's also the Satellaview but at least with that you could save the game to a cartridge, and potentially sell that to someone else.

[Melf]

Sadly; I dont really think the folks in Corporate really care about the second hand market especially 10+ years down the line. What money does that make them? As a lover of old things it makes me sad but the reality is in the modern age its all too easy to actually do this.

I care as much for corporate as they care for consumers. They're going to do what's best for their bottom line; I'm going to do what interests me. That's where our paths will diverge, and that's where I'll quit modern gaming.

Do you really think that back in the 90's if Nintendo and Sega could have created a system whereby you had to buy a game new to play it and only on your own individual system they would have not done it?

They tried what they could at the time, such as Sega giving certain games only to Sega Channel subscribers and Nintendo trying to stop Blockbuster and other chains from renting games. They failed. It won't be so simple when everything comes directly from their servers. You get what they want you to get and no more, and you'll end up having to rebuy certain games multiple times if your hardware dies, and most licensed games won't be available at all. It's not the same as just grabbing another NES off eBay or a garage sale if yours dies. If your PS5 or Xbox 1440 dies with all your games on it after it's been discontinued, how do you get them back?

No company is a saint nor cares about old franchises/games (unless they can milk it in the future in some way that is) It doesn't make me enjoy their games any less but it is the truth.

That's the point. It's possible that eventually you WON'T be able to enjoy them because you won't have access to all of them. I want no part of an industry like that.

[G-Boobie]

Physical media is still a very significant factor in music and home television viewing.

Yes, but for how long? Not long.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...revenue-362799
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012...sical-sales-us
http://arstechnica.com/business/2012...sical-in-2012/

It's all downhill for physical sales from here on out. Television and film are experiencing a similar transition.

There's a lot of "I'LL QUIT FOREVER" hyperbole involved with the hardest of cores in all areas of media, but we all know it's bullshit. "I won't listen to AAC format music, it's not as good as vinyl!" - Sent from my iPhone or iPod touch. "Downloadable games are the devil, they'll never replace discs in my heart!" - a guy with fifty XBL games on his hard drive, or a big fat Steam account. "You'll NEVER take away my Blu-Ray!" - a guy with a Netflix account on which he watched the entirety of Breaking Bad.

I'm sure some of you guys are serious about it, but you're outliers, and as Robocop pointed out, outliers are not the concern of the corporate office. By taking music sales to the digital format, Apple has increased it's stock value to a point where a single stock is worth more than the average american brings home in a week, before taxes. Steam, a closed system where transfer of purchased and redeemed titles is impossible, is worth more per employee than Apple, though they're privately owned and therefore attract less attention. Amazon has arguably saved it's business with the Kindle, another closed system for reading eBooks: they've attracted direct competition from Barnes & Noble with the Nook, while Apple and Google have made a lot of noise about the eReader capabilities of their tablets.

There are good reasons why this is inevitable. Costs for the manufacture of physical media are entirely eliminated by putting a file on a server somewhere. Costs to transport and distribute are entirely removed, and the middleman cut that retailers get is no longer an issue. The data you submit when you open an account or make a purchase allow companies to market to you more effectively, and give insights as to what future products might do well. Less overhead, more information, higher profit margins? Done and done!

Most of you will grumble and fork over your money regardless. A small, tiny percentage will actually quit, and that's OK in the eyes of the these companies: all your kids will be entering adulthood soon enough, and they've never known physical media; they don't have CD collections, and the DVDs they have are rare and limited to absolute favorites. All their media is on a hard drive, and they like it that way. Getting their games that way won't bother them.

Some think that's a bleak future, but whatever. It's not. You don't technically own the games sitting on your shelves, as the legal garbage in the licensing agreement will happily point out if you were to read it. I have close to two hundred games on Steam, and while I've paid full price for a few of them, most were obtained on heavy discount during their frequent sales. There's not much difference between buying Space Marine on Steam for ten bucks, and buying it for ten bucks in the clearance bin at Target, except you didn't spend the gas money to drive to Target. Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo haven't quite figured that out yet, but they will.

I have a sizable collection of physical games, and I like having them there on the shelf, but realistically a huge shelf of games isn't much different from a list on a client. I'm probably not going to play most of either stack.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Yes, but for how long? Not long.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...revenue-362799
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012...sical-sales-us
http://arstechnica.com/business/2012...sical-in-2012/

It's all downhill for physical sales from here on out. Television and film are experiencing a similar transition.

There's a lot of "I'LL QUIT FOREVER" hyperbole involved with the hardest of cores in all areas of media, but we all know it's bullshit. "I won't listen to AAC format music, it's not as good as vinyl!" - Sent from my iPhone or iPod touch. "Downloadable games are the devil, they'll never replace discs in my heart!" - a guy with fifty XBL games on his hard drive, or a big fat Steam account. "You'll NEVER take away my Blu-Ray!" - a guy with a Netflix account on which he watched the entirety of Breaking Bad.

I'm sure some of you guys are serious about it, but you're outliers, and as Robocop pointed out, outliers are not the concern of the corporate office. By taking music sales to the digital format, Apple has increased it's stock value to a point where a single stock is worth more than the average american brings home in a week, before taxes. Steam, a closed system where transfer of purchased and redeemed titles is impossible, is worth more per employee than Apple, though they're privately owned and therefore attract less attention. Amazon has arguably saved it's business with the Kindle, another closed system for reading eBooks: they've attracted direct competition from Barnes & Noble with the Nook, while Apple and Google have made a lot of noise about the eReader capabilities of their tablets.

There are good reasons why this is inevitable. Costs for the manufacture of physical media are entirely eliminated by putting a file on a server somewhere. Costs to transport and distribute are entirely removed, and the middleman cut that retailers get is no longer an issue. The data you submit when you open an account or make a purchase allow companies to market to you more effectively, and give insights as to what future products might do well. Less overhead, more information, higher profit margins? Done and done!

Most of you will grumble and fork over your money regardless. A small, tiny percentage will actually quit, and that's OK in the eyes of the these companies: all your kids will be entering adulthood soon enough, and they've never known physical media; they don't have CD collections, and the DVDs they have are rare and limited to absolute favorites. All their media is on a hard drive, and they like it that way. Getting their games that way won't bother them.

Some think that's a bleak future, but whatever. It's not. You don't technically own the games sitting on your shelves, as the legal garbage in the licensing agreement will happily point out if you were to read it. I have close to two hundred games on Steam, and while I've paid full price for a few of them, most were obtained on heavy discount during their frequent sales. There's not much difference between buying Space Marine on Steam for ten bucks, and buying it for ten bucks in the clearance bin at Target, except you didn't spend the gas money to drive to Target. Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo haven't quite figured that out yet, but they will.

I have a sizable collection of physical games, and I like having them there on the shelf, but realistically a huge shelf of games isn't much different from a list on a client. I'm probably not going to play most of either stack.

This. So much this. A million times this.

[Rob2600]

Remember when CD games would be cheaper than carts because they cost less to make? ... Yeah.

I remember this quite clearly. ...I would say on average, I payed about half as much for new PSX games as I did for N64 games.

I worked at EB in northern NJ during the PlayStation and N64 era. Major new releases for the N64 were $50-$60 (Ocarina of Time, Beetle Adventure Racing, Turok 2, Tony Hawk's Pro Skater, WWF No Mercy, etc.). Major new releases for the PlayStation were $40-$50 (Metal Gear Solid, Tomb Raider II, Quake II, Bushido Blade, Tekken 3, etc.). Not exactly half the price.

In most cases, major new releases were $10 more on the N64 vs the PlayStation.

And if your local store charged more than $60 for N64 games, they ripped you off.

[megasdkirby]

This. So much this. A million times this.

Agreed.

With piracy, what is there not to like about digital games? It's not all gloom and doom, folks. Piracy will open the doors to untold possibilities and will keep gaming alive.

A few years from now, when a great game that was only released digitally becomes impossible to find (because there will be no "physical" backup), some kind-hearted pirate/hacker will have surely "dumped" the game for all of us to enjoy, wherever and whenever.

Bless those who pirate and hack games for others to enjoy. It will be a great era when it comes to fruition...and less expensive too!

They are are TRUE heroes!

...

Ok, so I am being an asshole on purpose. What is sad that, even while trolling, I'm being serious. Many, if not all, of the titles that will be "digital only" will eventually no longer be distributed by said means. How are those games going to be played 10, 20 years from now? Through pirated means.

The irony.

[Leo_A]

I don't know why people are replying to me as if I said we're not moving towards a digital future...

I'm in agreement, folks, and have been since my first post in this thread as well as similar threads for probably half a decade now. There's no need to convince me of it.

Yes, but for how long? Not long.

Considering digital sales of music just overtook retail sales yet people are acting like it's some sort of example of an industry that has moved to 100% digital distribution that proves where console videogaming will be in a generation's time, I'd say longer than you think.

Retail music sales are still significant and are unlikely to become an insignificant force in the marketplace anytime soon (CD's have many years left before they become specialty products like record's), Blu-Ray is still growing every year (And are about the only source at home for things like native 1080p video and lossless audio), and DVD is still huge even though it has been on the downward slope for about 4 or 5 years now.

DVD reached such a level of success that it's going to be able to ride this downward slope at the end of the product life cycle for a long time to come before becoming insignificant. And even after it has largely left retail stores, I imagine it will still be fairly big business. Many publishers already are having success with the format with online sales including many titles and release programs that are online exclusives. Many a commercial DVD never reaches store shelves these days yet sales are still very healthy since consumer's are instead buying much of their DVD content via online retailers like Amazon these days.

It's all downhill for physical sales from here on out. Television and film are experiencing a similar transition.

No matter the positives or negatives, digital is the wave of the future. But I still say some of you are writing the obituary for physical media prematurely. I remember a thread here a good half decade ago or so that proclaimed that newspapers would be dead in five years and all of the DP experts were coming out of the woodwork claiming it was all but fact.

Yet it's still hanging on, it's still big business, and it's still trying hard to compete despite a constant and significant decline. Even if there's no hope for the ultimate survival of printed news on paper, the DP experts were a heck of a way off and we at the very least have years left before the industry takes its final breath where paper distribution of the news is concerned.

There are good reasons why this is inevitable. Costs for the manufacture of physical media are entirely eliminated by putting a file on a server somewhere.

And you also have what I've stated in this thread earlier. A handful of days of booming business each year with the vast majority of the rest of the year likely barely utilizing 10% of your network infrastructure for digital distribution.

That's a pretty hefty expense to have sitting around almost idle most of the year just to support things like the launch of a Halo release, a few days around Christmas, etc.

Some think that's a bleak future, but whatever. It's not.

Then apparently you're very much a Digital Press "outlier".

For the people that enjoy playing the game's of the past, want to maintain and enjoy collection's of them indefinitely, and for those that want to add new games to their collections even if it was released 20, 30, or more years ago, it sure as heck sucks.

If you're there just for the moment and you're perfectly content never revisiting older games or discovering new games that slipped by you when they were having their moment in the sun, I can see why you're just fine with the direction we're going and don't see any problems with it.

But don't act like it's some sort of fact that it's not a "bleak future" for some since for the classic gamer's, it's exactly that. And the same for books, journals, and so on for segments of the population

Here's a couple of excellent post I read just a few days ago about some of the problems being experienced with the transition to digital at our nation's libraries.

http://newsearch.boatnerd.com/viewto...p=48225#p48225

http://newsearch.boatnerd.com/viewto...p=48317#p48317

Digital can be a great thing but it certainly still has its pitfalls in many different ways.

And if your local store charged more than $60 for N64 games, they ripped you off.

If you never paid more than $60 for a N64 game, you either weren't buying games during the first year or so the platform was out or your region was extremely lucky for some reason to avoid it. $79.99 was all but a standard price point for Nintendo 64 games here for at least through 1997 at retailers like Wal-Mart, Electronic Boutique, K-Mart, Sears, and elsewhere. Of course I can't vouch that it was the standard everywhere, but it certainly was extremely common. Circular's for national chains at the time, reading IGN64 (Back when IGN wasn't the joke that it has become over the past 12 or so years), and the memories of many people suggest that $80 prices for N64 releases were widespread for a time.

From my memories, it wasn't until 1998 or so that N64 gamer's stopped being ripped off with new releases (If you can call $60 not being ripped off when many top of the line PS releases could be had for $40 and would quickly go on sale) and we finally started to get some price reductions with older software.

Agreed.

With piracy, what is there not to like about digital games? It's not all gloom and doom, folks. Piracy will open the doors to untold possibilities and will keep gaming alive.

A few years from now, when a great game that was only released digitally becomes impossible to find (because there will be no "physical" backup), some kind-hearted pirate/hacker will have surely "dumped" the game for all of us to enjoy, wherever and whenever.

Bless those who pirate and hack games for others to enjoy. It will be a great era when it comes to fruition...and less expensive too!

They are are TRUE heroes!

...

Ok, so I am being an asshole on purpose. What is sad that, even while trolling, I'm being serious. Many, if not all, of the titles that will be "digital only" will eventually no longer be distributed by said means. How are those games going to be played 10, 20 years from now? Through pirated means.

The irony.

At least you seem able to recognize this. And not only is it a sucky hope for the future, it's far from a guarantee. Complexity is exponetially with every console generation and DRM is growing ever more restrictive as time goes by. Things like emulation (Which even if it happens, it will be many years before it reaches the point of even being semi playable), hackers throwing the doors open like has happened on the original Xbox, and so on are hardly guarantees with future platforms.

Imagine if the OnLive proponents end up being correct. We won't even have that hope since the only thing entering our home's would be a video stream.