Sega Saturn vs Turbo Grafx CD

[IHatedSega]

In all regions combined, who had the best library of games? Or if you want to answer it a different way, which was best in Japan and then in America?

The Turbo library has a lot of unique shooters, RPGs and Castelvania. The Japanese Saturn has a bigger range of more well known classics, some came to America, but besides those it doesnt have much to offer. They both have good fighting games too, both required cards or cartridges to work. Both consoles had great libraries which a lot of people missed out on for various different reasons and were in 3rd place against their main competitors.

Which one do you like more, and why? :) And can you specifically name games that are often overlooked but are amazing? Im really getting interested in these libraries.

[Orion Pimpdaddy]

This thread is how flame wars begin.

Seriously though, I would love to judge the entire library of games for both systems, but I haven't played either either enough to base a judgement.

[IHatedSega]

Its just for healthy discussion. They have things in common and a ton of people havent experienced their classics, so I want to hear what people think who have.

[Jack_Burton_BYOAC]

This thread is how flame wars begin.

This isn't 4chan, reddit, youtube, gamespy or some other 13 year old's hangout. I think we can express our opinions with civility.

I also, admittedly do not have much experience with either system. I haven't even owned a Turbo CD. I did just finish playthroughs of Valis III, Rondo of Blood, and Lords of Thunder. I was very, very impressed.

I have owned a Saturn, but didn't dig too deeply into the system library at the time. It is high on my list of future aquirements.

I think I would lean towards the Saturn having the overall stronger library. You have at the very least:

Grandia
Radiant Silvergun
X-men vs Street Fighter

Any of which was enough reason to own a system by themselves.

One other thing that springs to mind for me is that the Turbo CD really felt like it was doing something with the CD audio, like the games really put a lot of emphasis on the new tech for the time. The Saturn had awesome music too, but I feel like many of the Turbo CD games I've tried almost play like the point is to experience the OST while playing a game, not the other way around.

[wiggyx]

Saturn also has Castlevania, unique shooters, and great RPGs.

I can't even consider the TGCD when placed by the Saturn. Maybe the Sega CD, but not the Saturn.


As far as fighters go, I can't think of more than 1 TG-16 fighter that I'd ever care about, not to mention having to hunt down a special controller just to make it playable :/

[Jack_Burton_BYOAC]

As far as fighters go, I can't think of more than 1 TG-16 fighter that I'd ever care about, not to mention having to hunt down a special controller just to make it playable :/

Fighting Street aka Street Fighter I is interesting to look at from a historical perspective. Also, the novelty of SF2 on the system is strong since it would have been one of the best ports back in the day.

[wiggyx]

Fighting Street aka Street Fighter I is interesting to look at from a historical perspective. Also, the novelty of SF2 on the system is strong since it would have been one of the best ports back in the day.

True, but it's a miserable game, and I can play SF2 on the Saturn via any one of the many collections. I'm looking at it strictly from a "games that I want to play" perspective. So, for me, there's ONE fighter on the TG/PCE that I'd ever care about and dozens on the Saturn.

[Ed Oscuro]

Here is a bit of ancient wisdom: Buy good games, ignore bad ones.

There is no commandment that you must buy all the games, even the poor ones, or that you can only buy games for one system. I've had PC-Engine and Saturn games for years without either system.

Both the TG (actually forget that - go for the PC-Engine CD-ROM games) and the Saturn have games that are, in my view, irreplaceable. As I would focus only on those, it seems like the question being posed can mislead you into trying for a goal that you probably don't care about.

I would prefer it if the PC-Engine and Saturn had stronger showings in original titles, but when you consider that Dracula X (on PC-Engine) and Taromaru alone will easily set you back half a grand, that's either a lot of money to spend, or a lot of crap games you don't have to worry about.

I think the next PC-Engine game I'll buy is Earnest Evans, unless I find a reasonably-priced good entry in the Soldier series first. I wanted to like Kaze Kiri but it doesn't seem to control well.

[gameofyou]

My vote goes to the Saturn.

[Ed Oscuro]

My vote goes to the Saturn.

What does that mean? You'd rather buy Legacy of War for its 3D glasses than Dracula X?

Nobody's on a desert island, here (and if I was, I'd sacrifice a bunch of early-style huge Saturn boxes to get all the PC-Engine hardware).

[BricatSegaFan]

I love both way too much. But if I had to pick it would be Saturn.

I have to say my Saturn gets the most playtime and I collect for it aggressively

[Koa Zo]

The Japanese Saturn has a bigger range of more well known classics, some came to America, but besides those it doesnt have much to offer.

What do you mean "it doesn't have much to offer"
I seriously can't think of anything Saturn doesn't offer.

As to the question of the thread: I like both consoles. Both presented me with tons of surprises in the libraries. But overall the Saturn has the broader range of to-notch- titles.

It was a distant 3rd place console because they didnt have the distribution or marketing like Sega and Nintendo had. That simple. If they were to sell to places in the US then it would have been larger populated areas. I grew up in Austin TX, and I didnt know about it, but I also wasnt into games as much. The retro store near me has it and the CD drive.

Where are you coming up with this?

TG-16 has substantial print advertising and television advertising. I don't really ever recall browsing videogame sections of stores and not seeing TG-16 games and products.

[Bojay1997]

What do you mean "it doesn't have much to offer"
I seriously can't think of anything Saturn doesn't offer.

As to the question of the thread: I like both consoles. Both presented me with tons of surprises in the libraries. But overall the Saturn has the broader range of to-notch- titles.



Where are you coming up with this?

TG-16 has substantial print advertising and television advertising. I don't really ever recall browsing videogame sections of stores and not seeing TG-16 games and products.

I think that's a gross overstatement. As I noted earlier, it was carried at Toys R Us and certain mall chains before Gamestop, but it certainly wasn't as widely available as the NES or Sega Genesis. The advertising was also limited to game magazines for the most part and they only did one short and concentrated burst of TV advertising and then it was regional and not national in scope.

[Koa Zo]

I think that's a gross overstatement. As I noted earlier, it was carried at Toys R Us and certain mall chains before Gamestop, but it certainly wasn't as widely available as the NES or Sega Genesis. The advertising was also limited to game magazines for the most part and they only did one short and concentrated burst of TV advertising and then it was regional and not national in scope.

Of course it wasn't as widely distributed and advertised as Nintendo and Sega, but anyone who was into games knew about it.
I remember the TV commercials for the Duo and the 3-pack of games, and Lord of Thunder commercials, that was pretty late in the TG-16's life and I was still seeing commercials on MTV or wherever.

I'd wager the TG-16/Duo has as much if not more TV advertising in the US than Saturn.

[BlastProcessing402]

I think that's a gross overstatement. As I noted earlier, it was carried at Toys R Us and certain mall chains before Gamestop, but it certainly wasn't as widely available as the NES or Sega Genesis. The advertising was also limited to game magazines for the most part and they only did one short and concentrated burst of TV advertising and then it was regional and not national in scope.

I remember TG16 stuff being in the old JC Penney's and Sears Christmas catalogs, so they weren't that hard to get, unless you really were in East Tumbleweed c/o Middle of Nowhere.

Walmart and Target weren't really around in our area then, nor Best Buy or Circuit City, so I don't know what they might've done, but TRU, Children's Palace (an old TRU competitor, if you don't remember), Electronics Boutique, Babbages those were the main places to buy games back then, and they all carried it.

K-Mart, I don't remember if they carried it or not (I would guess not), but even their NES selection was pretty lacking back in the day. Yes, they carried NES, but they had maybe a dozen to two dozen games compared to the 50 to a hundred you might find at the other places at any given time. They weren't exactly gaming central, they were where you tried to beg your mom to buy you a game while she was dragging you along shopping. Hey, that's how I got the original Zelda.

[mailman187666]

I remember playing a demo kiosk of some sort when I was younger at either a Sears or Lechmere back when it was still in stores. I'm leaning more toward it being in Lechmere. This was in Nashua, NH all those years ago. There was also Toys R Us, EB, Kaybee Toys and I think maybe one or two other stores that carried TG16 IIRC. I don't recall ever seeing a Duo or TG CD attachment for sale.

[wiggyx]

As for TG16 (all models combined, but most of them would be the original model) vs. Saturn sales, Turbo CD/Duo sales were quite low, of course. TG16 HuCard systems did sell better though. The problem is, we don't really know how much the TG16 sold... the one source that says anything says 2.5 million, but that number seems far too high, I think. The Saturn sold 2-3 million in the US, and there's absolutely no way that the TG16 sold more than that... just look at EBay for instance, there's always a lot more US Saturn stuff than there is Turbografx. Several times more in fact. That TG16 sales number is likely wrong, but who knows that the real one is.

Just because there's more Saturn stuff than TG16 on eBay doesn't mean that Saturn sales were higher than those of the TG16.

The TG16 came out at a time when video games were very much so thought of as disposable. I had many friends who's parents would throw games away when they weren't used anymore. We're talking late 80's/early 90's. No webernets, no eBay, and the only trade-in shops were locally owned. Lamestop didn't exist and places like Electronics Boutique and Babbages didn't do used games. There was really no reason for parents, or most anyone for that matter, to think that these things were worth holding on to.

That said, I do tend to agree with you regarding sales numbers. It's hard to imagine the TG16 sharing the same sales as the Saturn. But we can't know for certain either way...

[theclaw]

I remember playing a demo kiosk of some sort when I was younger at either a Sears or Lechmere back when it was still in stores. I'm leaning more toward it being in Lechmere. This was in Nashua, NH all those years ago. There was also Toys R Us, EB, Kaybee Toys and I think maybe one or two other stores that carried TG16 IIRC. I don't recall ever seeing a Duo or TG CD attachment for sale.

Yeah that's still 3-4 times the population of Oak Harbor, WA. Getting likely at this point TG16 was in fact not released there.

[7th lutz]

I remember TG16 stuff being in the old JC Penney's and Sears Christmas catalogs, so they weren't that hard to get, unless you really were in East Tumbleweed c/o Middle of Nowhere.

Walmart and Target weren't really around in our area then, nor Best Buy or Circuit City, so I don't know what they might've done, but TRU, Children's Palace (an old TRU competitor, if you don't remember), Electronics Boutique, Babbages those were the main places to buy games back then, and they all carried it.

K-Mart, I don't remember if they carried it or not (I would guess not), but even their NES selection was pretty lacking back in the day. Yes, they carried NES, but they had maybe a dozen to two dozen games compared to the 50 to a hundred you might find at the other places at any given time. They weren't exactly gaming central, they were where you tried to beg your mom to buy you a game while she was dragging you along shopping. Hey, that's how I got the original Zelda.

Walmart and Target existed in my era in the early 1990's and I believe Walmart first came in 1989 or 1990 in my area. What I can tell is there was no tg-16 games in those 2 stores or for K-mart either at the time. Walmart and Target only carried Nintendo and Sega at the time.

[A Black Falcon]

Where are you coming up with this?

It's very well known that NEC badly bungled TG16 marketing in the US, particuarly in the first few years when it mattered most. They focused mostly on a handful of major cities; elsewhere, it just depended if you had a Toys R Us near you. They did not market it well or enough. Maybe serious, hardcore gamers knew about it, sure, but the mass market either didn't, or thought that it was worse than Genesis (or, once it released, SNES) based on hearsay, probably didn't see them on the shelves anyway because both of the low sales and because of the poor marketing efforts, and dismissed it.

TG-16 has substantial print advertising and television advertising. I don't really ever recall browsing videogame sections of stores and not seeing TG-16 games and products.

Beyond what I mentioned above there was a decent-sized marketing push (in magazine ads, particularly) for the TurboDuo in '92-93, but it was too little, too late, and the Duo bombed. There's a reason why TTI was pretty much dead a year after the Duo released -- they didn't sell enough. Of course, it didn't help that some of their marketing was that controversial "Johnny Turbo" magazine ad campaign...

Of course it wasn't as widely distributed and advertised as Nintendo and Sega, but anyone who was into games knew about it.
I remember the TV commercials for the Duo and the 3-pack of games, and Lord of Thunder commercials, that was pretty late in the TG-16's life and I was still seeing commercials on MTV or wherever.

I'd wager the TG-16/Duo has as much if not more TV advertising in the US than Saturn.

The SNES and Genesis didn't sell what they did because of people who knew about games... and as for Duo ads, as I said, that was a last, desperate attempt to make the system successful, and they completely failed, unfortunately.

As for TG16 (all models combined, but most of them would be the original model) vs. Saturn sales, Turbo CD/Duo sales were quite low, of course. TG16 HuCard systems did sell better though. The problem is, we don't really know how much the TG16 sold... the one source that says anything says 2.5 million, but that number seems far too high, I think. The Saturn sold 2-3 million in the US, and there's absolutely no way that the TG16 sold more than that... just look at EBay for instance, there's always a lot more US Saturn stuff than there is Turbografx. Several times more in fact. That TG16 sales number is likely wrong, but who knows that the real one is. http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/ind...45723#msg45723 (Post claiming maybe under a million? The number is very plausible, but we can't be sure it's accurate; I'd take that over that absurd "2.5 million" number for sure, though.)

For Duo sales... http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...&postcount=190 Victor Ireland of Working Designs here says that he thinks the Duo itself only sold 20,000 systems, and that the Turbo CD sold about that amount too, or less. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...51&postcount=8 Here he says how they destroyed some leftover unsold TG16/Duo hardware, in order to get a tax writeoff for it. They apparently had a lot left over.