I was disappointed they didn't show the console or give a price.
I was disappointed they didn't show the console or give a price.
I agree. I also believe the journalists who asked this question asked the wrong question. It doesn't matter if the PS4 can play used discs or not. PCs can "play" used discs and you can install the full game to your hard drive from a used disc, but unless you have a unique key, you can't play the game. What matters is whether or not Sony will allow publishers to lock out used games using unique keys. Both Sony and Microsoft already allow this on the Xbox 360 and PS3 which is why multi-player passes exist. If Sony comes out and says "we will not allow publishers to lock games to a specific user or console", that would put that rumor to rest. Otherwise, they have said nothing at all.Originally Posted by RCM
I think my response about why I was disappointed was pretty clear. This is simply a modestly powered PC in a console form just like the Durango is rumored to be. I wanted something that would actually be a unique console design that does something PCs do not. Unfortunately, this will simply be a repeat of the last generation in that most games will be multi-platform and the differences between versions will be negligible.
I am disappointed that the console is Blu Ray based, even though Sony didn't even mention it during the presentation. Blu Ray is too slow to allow large games to be played off disc, so it means massive installs to the hard drive. I would have loved to see a higher speed Blu Ray or similar disc or even memory card style format.
I would also have liked Sony to actually revamp the Dualshock. Instead all they did is smooth out some of the edges and stick a touch area on the face. It would have been great if they had created a controller that had more design cues from the 360 controller (I have big hands and the Dualshock has always been uncomfortable for me to use) while maintaining the great D-pad. Similarly, I would have loved an actual screen on the controller so that I won't have to have my Vita standing by at all times for games that add some type of touch screen element.
I would have liked Sony to admit that the Move was a mistake and actually create something like a more advanced form of the Kinect. Instead it appears that they just added a second camera to the Playstation Eye.
I would have liked Sony to announce a partnership with a prominent user interface designer so they can get beyond their badly outdated ideas about what constitutes intuitive design. They totally blew the PSN revamp recently and the clips of the new interface we saw during the presentation appeared to be more of the same.
Honestly, my biggest disappointment is that something akin to the Occulus Rift wasn't announced as part of the console yesterday. Sony has been experimenting with headsets for years and having a VR headset that had great video quality at a reasonable consumer price point would revolutionize console gaming. Unfortunately, it looks like this will become a PC gaming staple long before it hits home consoles.
I'm sure I will buy this at launch just like I'll buy the Durango, but I feel like this design is too little too late and not really exciting enough to capture consumers who have moved on to other devices for their gaming or who will be tempted to be by things like Steambox or even plain old gaming PCs.
Last edited by Bojay1997; 02-21-2013 at 12:28 PM.
So what? It's a relevant nugget of information about the PS4, which is what this thread is about, correct? Are you really going to be so anal retentive that you're going to whine if I don't post in the exact thread you'd like? Get off. I got in some stupid arguments with stupid, panicky people about this very subject, and I'd like to enjoy my success. Thanks forum guy.
Here's a whole bunch of links to different articles confirming the information.
LINK UNO
LINK ZWEI
LINK TROIS
It's all from the same source; an interview with Yoshida where he says, and I quote for those too lazy to read the links, "So used games can play on PS4. How's that?". So that's likely to turn out the way GameStop prefers.
So now that we've all forgotten that this is Sony we're talking about, how's about a confirmation that there's no PSN and save game backwards compatibility sound? So we have something to bitch about again?
GET READY GET MAD
EDIT: Ok, now Sony is saying that they COULD make them compatible, "if they choose to." So who knows what's going on.
Last edited by G-Boobie; 02-21-2013 at 12:32 PM.
Again, it was not a clear denial nor did it clarify what happens if and when publishers want to release games on the PS4 and lock content to a particular user or console. His comments could be seen as also describing a Steam like model where used games can be transferred to other users or devices. Here is the first part of the quotation - "They purchase physical form; they want to use it everywhere, right? So that's my expectation." I have a lot of expectations in life, but that's not the same as reality unfortunately.
I completely disagree with you about Move. The tech is extremely well designed, functions amazing in software when well implemented, sold somewhere over ten million units, it's been as supported in retail software as Kinect-compatible games (110 Move games vs. 141 Kinect) and, unlike a vast majority of Kinect software, it has the benefit of a physical interface (ie, buttons). I thought everybody loved buttons? Aren't buttons a thing or has the worm turned there? Do we hate buttons now?
Don't get me wrong, Kinect is completely fine for what it is, but outside of Microsoft blitzing the hardware at retail and getting into millions of homes - I think it being "superior" technology/product is completely a point of opinion.
I don't see any reason why Sony should abandon the Move tech. Support the wands. Give those who have invested in Move a reason to carry the hardware forward to PS4 with the addition of superior camera tech that makes something that works well potentially work even better/more accurately, that seems totally reasonable from a value standpoint.
"And the book says: 'We may be through with the past, but the past ain't through with us.'"
Hmm. Perhaps it's your attitude that's rubbing me the wrong way. Your original post about it had such an abrasive tone to it and came out of thin air because no one had mentioned the issue in two full pages of posts. It's like that guy who stands up and screams something random in the middle of another conversation. I don't disagree that it's an important topic to bring up, but your comment actually had me looking back through the entire thread to see who you might have even been responding to because I honestly thought I'd missed something, which means you did a poor job of communicating your message. I don't care that you didn't post it in another thread. I care that it came with an abrasive attitude, with no context whatsoever. Congratulations on (maybe) being right.
I actually agree with Bojay. The comments from Sony don't seem to unequivocally support used games. Used games have very little to do with statements like "They purchase physical form; they want to use it everywhere, right? So that's my expectation." - that sounds much more like a Steam model. "So, used games can play on PS4. How is that?" That one seems to indicate used games will work, I agree, but it almost seems like something's lost in translation or the question wasn't fully understood. The fact that always-on connectivity isn't going to be required though seems to lend itself more certainly in the allowing used games camp. Though even that's not a certainty. Not requiring always-on isn't the same as requiring sometimes-on in order to theoretically register games, which, from my understanding of Steam from friends who use it, is how that works.
I disagree. Sony has largely abandoned the Move on the PS3 and the only major first party implementation of Move compatibility lately has been as an add-on feature to FPS shooters. Move was significantly less expensive than Kinect and the worldwide install base on the PS3 is similar in size to the Xbox 360 and yet it moved less than half as many units than the Kinect has. The Kinect has sold over 25 million units and actually works really well for dance and exercise games. It also adds some fun features to various FPS and racing games without messing with their tight control schemes. Have you actually spent any significant time playing with Kinect recently? Developers have become very adept at focusing on its strengths and it doesn't require the user to make much effot to change their play style. I can't say the same about Move.
I like buttons on a joystick or joypad controller. I think buttons and physical devices have no place in a motion type control scheme.
I'm NOT downplaying Kinect's strengths and implemention, I just don't personally consider it to be "superior" tech. They're both good for different reasons and I see no reason for Sony to toss years of R&D on Move to just concede "failure" based on some units sold vs. units sold metric.
If they believe that they can improve on Move in the next gen, why not let them, especially if users don't have to re-buy hardware.
Also, there's a strong possibility that the next gen Playstation camera will do Kinect like body tracking without the move wand. The past two generations of Playstation camera tech already can track motion pretty adeptly. So, if the new cam can do that AND use the Move tech with a greater level of fidelity I don't see a losing proposition, I see all the more bases covered, but we'll have to see what the deal is with the new camera beyond it being stereoscopic.
"And the book says: 'We may be through with the past, but the past ain't through with us.'"
I was pretty impressed with the show, although I didn't watch it live and just read the write ups afterward. Seems like Sony's really learned their lessons about the debacle of the PS3 launch. Expecting Sony to maintain backwards compatibility for all three previous systems was never going to happen -- the Gaikai thing seems like a very logical way for them to use that technology. Yes, it is a PC, but why is that a bad thing? Console have been becoming PC's for a decade now.
As someone who is definitely ready for the next generation to begin (has anyone seen the Crysis 3 videos? unreal), I'm excited to see Microsoft's response.
Regarding the used game issue, I still think it's very unlikely that either Sony or Microsoft would block used games. Doing so would cut off a significant amount of their potential buyers. However, the tech is already there this gen with the PS3 and 360 but only gets used for stuff like making MMO games(DC Universe, etc) a one time use disc and of course the implementation of online passes to block online multiplayer for used games. With each generation it seems that consoles borrow more and more features from traditional gaming PC's but until consoles become download only devices for their game delivery I doubt we will see a traditional console from Microsoft, Sony or Nintendo do away completely with used game disc.
Back on topic, I found the entire conference to be very long-winded and pretty boring at times. That doesn't mean I didn't like the interesting parts but this thing ran around two hours and ten minutes. Had they cut out all the BS fluff/filler they could have streamlined this into a very well organized hour to hour and a half conference. I wasn't interested in any of the exclusives they showed. In fact, the only two games I cared about(Destiny and Watch Dogs) will be coming out for this gens systems as well as next gen systems. But going into this I wasn't expecting much. I knew that this was basically just going to be a tease reveal. But for a two hour long tease they probably could have done alot more with it. But we'll have to wait until around E3 for that. Speaking of which...
While getting to see the actual system would have been nice, there was no chance in hell they were going to announce the launch price. And the reason is very simple. If they tell you right now that this new system is going to cost between $450-$600(which is what the UK equivalent is now being offered on preorder for) then a huge majority of people would already lose interest in the system then and there. The goal is to build up momentum over the course of several months/years to get people so excited that by the time you tell them the price theres a good chance that they will still want to purchase the system on launch....even if it's out of their price range. So don't expect a price announcement until atleast E3 in June but probably even closer to launch.
Last edited by The 1 2 P; 02-21-2013 at 06:29 PM.
ALL HAIL THE 1 2 P
Just as a quick tid-bit...
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/0...ck-used-games/
Bottom Line: Sony isn't blocking used games. If Microsoft chooses too, I'd say it's absolute suicide for the Xbox.
Update: Speaking at a roundtable session with the press attended by Ars Technica, Shuhei Yoshida stated that "when you purchase the disc-based games for PS4, that should work on any hardware." When asked whether games would require online registration, Yoshida noted that that decision was up to the publisher. When asked if Sony, as a publisher, would require games to be registered online, Yoshida said, "we are not talking about that plan."
While Yoshida's statement leaves open the possibility that individual publishers can still block used games at will, it's just as likely he was simply leaving the door open for the kind of "Online Pass" purchase systems that already routinely limit certain online game functions in used copies of games. So while there's still a bit of wiggle room in Sony's public comments, we'd also caution against reading to much into what Yoshida did (or didn't) say.
Original story: It's been a tense time for gamers who happen to be fans of both Sony and the preowned game market, with rampant rumors (and even patent filings) suggesting that the PlayStation 4 might include a method to let the system block used game discs. Sony didn't directly address the matter during its lengthy PlayStation Meeting Wednesday night, but Sony Worldwide Studios boss Shuhei Yoshida has now publicly put the whole thing to rest: The PlayStation 4 will not block used game discs from being played.
Eurogamer got a chance to sit down with Yoshida after the public presentation, and the publication asked him about the issue directly. "Do you want us to do that?" he reportedly answered, coyly, before noting that the "general expectation" among consumers is that they should be able to use their discs everywhere. After conferring with his Japanese PR advisor, he answered a bit more directly:
"So, used games can play on PS4. How is that?" Eurogamer's reporter said it was fine, and we have to agree.
Eurogamer also cites an unnamed Sony source in saying that the previously reported disc-blocking patent "had nothing to do with PlayStation 4 at all."
The focus now turns to Microsoft, which has seen more rumors that it will use forced installs and a required Internet connection as a method to stop used game sales on its next Xbox (even earning a preemptive public warning from GameStop on the matter). Making such a move independently of Sony would seem to be extremely risky, given that consumers could easily change their system purchase decisions based on this important factor. Still, a determined Microsoft could power through the consequences anyway in an attempt to cater to the many big publishers that absolutely hate the used game market, which they see as a drain on their profit-generating new game sales.
Mangar
http://www.lucid-vision.org
You really need to read the entire article if you're going to use it as the basis for your representation of something as a fact. The article concludes that Sony didn't rule out allowing publishers to block used games and didn't rule out doing it in the future themselves. The writer cautioned not to read too much into anything Mr. Yoshida said. I personally think neither Durango nor PS4 will launch with titles being locked to a particular console or account or user. I do, however, think individual publishers will start doing it pretty quickly, especially since games are likely to be released across PS4, Durango and PC simultaneously this generation and PC users already have such locks in place. I hope I'm wrong, but Sony has not been clear at all in what their intent might be regarding this issue.
Uh-oh. Not good news...
http://www.gamespot.com/news/playsta...itles-6404274?
Sounds like a hardware issue? If someone was looking for a specific example of a PS4 disappointment, this would be mine.
"One of the ways I gauge a DS game is by recharges. "...Tycho (Penny Arcade)
So, hypothetical scenario:
PS4 games brand new on Blu-Ray come with a one-time activation code (either on paper or coded into the disc).
Another "activation code" costs, say, $10 for a game that's $40-$60 MSRP, and $5 for a game that costs $20 MSRP. (I HOPE that the fees will be less, but let's just go with those numbers for the sake of this scenario.)
If GameStop wants to continue to monetize used software on this platform, they give less in trade in value for the game and sell the used copy at a low enough price point to accommodate for the activation code price and not make the buyer "feel" it.
If they were going to sell the used game for $40, they'll have to sell it for $30. Period.
Sure, GameStop will feel it a bit, but ultimately, it's a hit they'll have to take if this is the reality that consumers are going to face with used software.
IF this turns out to be the reality of the situation, they can't do it any other way. Where a new game costs $50 they can't sell the used one for $40 knowing that the buyer is going to have to pay another $10 when they try to play it. They're still going to have to give shoppers a reason to go with the used merch because that's their business model.
There are still plenty of other avenues for them to profit as a retail chain.
"And the book says: 'We may be through with the past, but the past ain't through with us.'"
I considered this very scenario when the rumors kicked up regarding blocking second hand games. Stop ripping me off.
I don't want you to hate me, I want you to want to hate me - GamersUniteMagazine.com
I'm inside your mind!
"And the book says: 'We may be through with the past, but the past ain't through with us.'"
Yeah I read that earlier. But I can honestly say it doesn't bother me one bit. Of course thats probably because Zombie Nation is the only PSN game I have and that was free from the Outage aftermath. But I could totally understand if this issue pissed people off who own dozens of games on PSN, including their instant game collections for those who are still active PSN+ members when the PS4 launches.
ALL HAIL THE 1 2 P
I am, in fact, a jerk. You'd best put me on "ignore" if you want to avoid future jerkery. Ass.
Good. Clarification is needed (like this) for them to hit the ground running for this system.
Game on!
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