ok, so what's the deal with PAL games

[Flam]

what are they? are the inferior?

I was looking at Little Samson listing and ran across this http://www.ebay.com/itm/LITTLE-SAMSO...item2ec70c9948

I noticed that it is significantly cheaper that the other realeases. Why? Is the quality worse?

[Jack_Burton_BYOAC]

Many of them play slower than the NTSC counterpart, or have black borders, or both. Some were heavily censored.

A few, like Star Fox 64, benefit from slightly higher resolution.

[Ed Oscuro]

In a few cases, PAL territories got games we didn't (my favorite example must be Power Strike II SMS, not the Game Gear one, which is a totally different game) and maybe even were made for use on PAL consoles first. But almost any game that was developed for NTSC areas (Japan or the Americas) is going to be much worse off.

However it seems that if you could use converters, many of these games would run just fine on NTSC consoles. I don't remember all of the details, but the SNES CPU was slowed down for the PAL release, and that black border should be due to the PAL region SNES outputting more lines to fit the PAL area TV (PAL has more TVL, lines of TV resolution, than NTSC). Get it running again on a system with the "right" speed CPU and which outputs the right resolution for NTSC territories and you should be back in business. However all bets are off if the software has been altered.

In the case of the SMS, it's no big deal running Power Strike II on NTSC machines. I forget what people have said about the apparent speed of the game, whether it seems more suited for PAL or NTSC, but people still like it on NTSC machines (and being faster is, in this case, actually a bonus).

A few, like Star Fox 64, benefit from slightly higher resolution.

Was it running full speed, though? Even in NTSC-land, processing speed was always an issue for those older N64 games.

[spman]

Overall they just as desirable to collectors. Many Euro games were produced in much larger numbers than their North American counterparts, so they aren't as rare. I have some PAL titles like U*Foria, TMHT, and International Cricket, which play fine on my North American top loader. If you just want the game to play, it should be fine.

[Aussie2B]

Its value has nothing to do with the fact that it's in the PAL format. Different regional versions of games will always have different values, sometimes drastically so. They're manufactured/sold in different quantities, and there are different levels of demand from the gaming populace. If a European release is cheaper than its American counterpart, it's probably just more common there. There are also plenty of games that are more expensive in Europe/Australia because there are fewer copies to go around than the American release in the US. Same kind of deal even when the format is the same. Both the US and Japan use NTSC, but the differences in game values can be huge. For example, RPGs are more popular in Japan than any other genre, so the big-name RPGs sell boatloads and are thus very common and cheap. You can get, say, a complete Super Famicom copy of Chrono Trigger for next to nothing, but getting the same for SNES commands a premium. For something the other way around, the Mega Drive wasn't remotely as popular in Japan as its Genesis counterpart in the US, and some Genesis games that are pretty common, like Castlevania: Bloodlines, are rare and very expensive in Japan.

[Flam]

I remember when I was looking for my Mr. Gimmick reporoduction, there was something to do with if it was a PAL or not. In which case the repro I got was not.

Anyway, point being. Would a Little Samson PAL play different in my toaster than the NTSC?

[spman]

What are some of the rarer / more expensive PAL titles for NES? I know Megaman V was the last official release, and is amongst the most rare and expensive, right? I know there's other titles too that are more obscure and were only released in certain territories, right?

[theclaw]

Yup, Mega Man 6 still isn't sold in Europe today.

Wario's Woods was NES final US and PAL release. Adventure Island 4 came out afterward in Japan.

US version = only ESRB-rated NES cart.
PAL version = only licensed NES game dated 1995 on its box.

[recorderdude]

What are some of the rarer / more expensive PAL titles for NES? I know Megaman V was the last official release, and is amongst the most rare and expensive, right? I know there's other titles too that are more obscure and were only released in certain territories, right?

Mr. Gimmick and U-Four-ia are definitely up there as Scandanavian and Australian exclusives, respectively. It's also quite hard to find Noah's Ark for NES (Konami, PAL)

[bb_hood]

Mr. Gimmick and U-Four-ia are definitely up there as Scandanavian and Australian exclusives, respectively. It's also quite hard to find Noah's Ark for NES (Konami, PAL)

Mr. Gimmick was released on the Famicom in Japan as well, not just exclusive to scandinavia/aust.

[bb_hood]

Both the US and Japan use NTSC, but the differences in game values can be huge. For example, RPGs are more popular in Japan than any other genre, so the big-name RPGs sell boatloads and are thus very common and cheap. You can get, say, a complete Super Famicom copy of Chrono Trigger for next to nothing, but getting the same for SNES commands a premium.

Well, you can get Japanese RPG very cheap compared to the english counterparts because they are in Japanese. Demand is not as high as the English versions because without a knowledge of English most are unplayable without a walkthrough. I wouldnt say the Japanese games are more common just not sought after like the english versions are.

[Daltone]

Many of them play slower than the NTSC counterpart, or have black borders, or both. Some were heavily censored.

What kind of games had stuff censored? I am curious to know what kind of filth I am missing out on! (Excluding the stuff that went to the Germans and the Aussies, who seem to miss out on everything)

[extrude]

Mr. Gimmick was released on the Famicom in Japan as well, not just exclusive to scandinavia/aust.

Ufouria: The Saga, known in Japan as Hebereke.

Im a big fan of the game, and i highly recommend the translated japanese version, it plays much better than the PAL version on a NTSC NES.

[theclaw]

A lot of PAL games were forced into 50hz by the hardware. Others had it set in software.

Sometimes you saw partial optimizations. Certain aspects of a game updated for PAL yet not the whole thing.

[Flam]

so, back to my comment, do you think a PAL Little Samson would play the same?

[recorderdude]

so, back to my comment, do you think a PAL Little Samson would play the same?

download the PAL little samson ROM, open it up in FCEUX, disable PAL emuation and see for yourself. Some games like Ufouria get their music fucked up but some like noah's ark are just fine albeit faster.

You would be running this on a toploader, right?

[Aussie2B]

Well, you can get Japanese RPG very cheap compared to the english counterparts because they are in Japanese. Demand is not as high as the English versions because without a knowledge of English most are unplayable without a walkthrough. I wouldnt say the Japanese games are more common just not sought after like the english versions are.

That would be assuming Japanese releases were only sold to Westerners. Values of Japanese games are usually roughly the same between sales within Japan and sales to foreigners (minus the general increase in prices that comes with importing). Japanese RPGs are typically just as cheap within Japan, even among gamers who would prefer the Japanese release over an American release. The Japanese releases are absolutely more common than their US counterparts the majority of the time. All you have to do is look at sales data for that. Just look at this report from Square Enix in 2003:

http://www.jp.square-enix.com/ir/e/e...01.pdf#page=27

Outside of mainstream stuff like Final Fantasy, practically no RPGs sell as well abroad as they do in Japan. Sometimes the gap can be over a million copies. Like for Chrono Trigger, 2.3 million versus 290,000. Or Secret of Mana, 1.5 million versus 330,000.

[Ed Oscuro]

PAL versions of games sometimes are worse than NTSC versions for use on NTSC machines. Alien Soldier, for example, probably plays well enough on a PAL Mega Drive, but that optimization isn't right for a NTSC machine.

[SparTonberry]

Yup, Mega Man 6 still isn't sold in Europe today.

Wario's Woods was NES final US and PAL release. Adventure Island 4 came out afterward in Japan.

US version = only ESRB-rated NES cart.
PAL version = only licensed NES game dated 1995 on its box.

Adventure Island 4 was the final Japanese release (June 1994), after Wario no Mori (February). But long before Wario's Woods (December).

As to last PAL release, I thought it was close between the PAL exclusive games The Lion King, Aladdin, and the Smurfs. (Wario's Woods' 1995 date certainly puts it in the running, but you can't be sure whether the others were actually released in 1994. GameFAQs claims Lion King was released in May 1995).

[Parodius Duh!]

Mr. Gimmick and U-Four-ia are definitely up there as Scandanavian and Australian exclusives, respectively. It's also quite hard to find Noah's Ark for NES (Konami, PAL)

Ufouria was released all across Europe, not just Australia. It also turns into a glitchy mess at times on a NTSC console. It was also released in Japan as 'Hebereke' with different character sprites.

All you need to do is disable that one pin in a toaster nes and itll play PAL games. It takes two seconds. You do not need to rely on a top loader to play PAL titles.