Is component = to rgb/scart?

[LaughingMAN.S9]

I ask because i decided to run component out from my ps3 to component input philips CRT my brother bought back in 05 and play ps1 games on it and it looks fucking fantastic, beautiful color separation, everything is bright and vivid and clean


I compared it to the same game (vagrant story) running on original hardware ps1 via s video same tv and it still looked better



To anyone with experience with both rgb and this method of playing ps1 games, would you say the quality is about on par with a ps1 outputting native scart? Would an rgb monitor make that much more of a difference?


Also note that my ps3 can't upscale to 480p because my CRT doesn't support it, just 480i via component and smoothing turned on.

[WCP]

rgb and component are very similar. RGB however has the "full" bandwidth, while Component doesn't quite have the full bandwidth. There is a much longer explanation, but that's the quickie version. Bottom line, unless you're a hardcore videophile, you probably won't notice the difference between the two. RGB is slightly better, but the average person won't notice that much of a difference.

I remember playing San Andreas on my PS2 via component, and it looked pretty damn good. When I hooked it up to my RGB monitor, it looked a little bit better, but the difference was very subtle.

[LaughingMAN.S9]

rgb and component are very similar. RGB however has the "full" bandwidth, while Component doesn't quite have the full bandwidth. There is a much longer explanation, but that's the quickie version. Bottom line, unless you're a hardcore videophile, you probably won't notice the difference between the two. RGB is slightly better, but the average person won't notice that much of a difference.

I remember playing San Andreas on my PS2 via component, and it looked pretty damn good. When I hooked it up to my RGB monitor, it looked a little bit better, but the difference was very subtle.

Thanks for clearing that up, after a bit more ab'ing between ps1 s video and ps1 emulated via ps3 using component, I came to the conclusion that the only advantage gained using the ps3 is much more vivid colors

I never saw why people tended to shit on the ps1 emulation, I always assumed the picture quality degradation came from upscaling on HDTV's and figured if played on regular CRT television the way it was meant to you would get the same picture more or less as original hardware....how wrong I was


Smoothing is basically mandatory for ps1 games because otherwise its a pixelated jagged nightmare, you lose a shitload of detail on player models, with smoothing on, you get closer to ps1 true graphics but still lose out on detail and overall sharpness, this is most evident in in game text


I tested this all using 2 copies of fear effect 2 running simultaneously so the differences perceived weren't imagined


Silver lining tho, all this led to me biting the bullet and jumping on the rgb bandwagon with a Sony bvm 20f1u

Basically I want the vivid colors i got from component with the detail from original hardware, its gotten to the point where I will accept no substitutes

[Ed Oscuro]

A lot of the answers to your questions should be found here.

Also note that my ps3 can't upscale to 480p because my CRT doesn't support it, just 480i via component and smoothing turned on.

Hi there, the connection type does not dictate whether something can be upscaled. Some TVs can upscale (usually slow and bad), and the PS3 can upscale some things too (however the PlayStation 3's upscaler adds about 1.5 frames of lag, according to the source above). Upscaling, however, is only needed when going from a lower resolution source signal to a television that does not natively support that signal - like a LCD television with a higher resolution.

Going from the PS3 to a 240p / 480i CRT television does not require any upscaling at all. The PS3 can output 240p sources, and it'll work with televisions that have 480i display timing as well (if there are any that don't support overlapping the fields as 240p does).

RGB is a bit obscure outside retro gaming, and most all displays (aside from some pro or broadcast video monitors, and PC VGA CRT monitors that have the wrong scan rate) do not support it directly. However it is rather easy to go from an RGB source, which you might have a system output (either with the right cables or with a mod), to component, by using an RGB to component converter box.

The difference between RGB (which is a kind of component video actually) and "component video" (YPbPr) is this: RGB has separate signals (each on its own pin) for red, green, and blue, while YPbPr has luminosity, and then a signal with the difference between blue (the b in Pb) and luma, and then another signal with the difference between red and luma. The green component is then "filled in" from this information. YPbPr is used instead of RGB apparently because it uses fewer signals - RGB not only has the three signals, but it also has other signal pins, i.e. HV (two syncs, one horizontal and another vertical, for RGBHV, or S in RGBS, which has both syncs on one wire; there are a few other formats too like Sony's "sync on green," RGsB).

Good luck with the 20F1, many systems will be able to use RGB cables for it right off the bat, although people can have plenty of problems with them. You can always ask at Shmups before shelling out for a cable if it'll be a good deal.

Personally, I agree, S-Video often looks pretty nice. More vivid colors would be nice though.

[LaughingMAN.S9]

A lot of the answers to your questions should be found here.

Hi there, the connection type does not dictate whether something can be upscaled. Some TVs can upscale (usually slow and bad), and the PS3 can upscale some things too (however the PlayStation 3's upscaler adds about 1.5 frames of lag, according to the source above). Upscaling, however, is only needed when going from a lower resolution source signal to a television that does not natively support that signal - like a LCD television with a higher resolution.

Going from the PS3 to a 240p / 480i CRT television does not require any upscaling at all. The PS3 can output 240p sources, and it'll work with televisions that have 480i display timing as well (if there are any that don't support overlapping the fields as 240p does).

RGB is a bit obscure outside retro gaming, and most all displays (aside from some pro or broadcast video monitors, and PC VGA CRT monitors that have the wrong scan rate) do not support it directly. However it is rather easy to go from an RGB source, which you might have a system output (either with the right cables or with a mod), to component, by using an RGB to component converter box.

The difference between RGB (which is a kind of component video actually) and "component video" (YPbPr) is this: RGB has separate signals (each on its own pin) for red, green, and blue, while YPbPr has luminosity, and then a signal with the difference between blue (the b in Pb) and luma, and then another signal with the difference between red and luma. The green component is then "filled in" from this information. YPbPr is used instead of RGB apparently because it uses fewer signals - RGB not only has the three signals, but it also has other signal pins, i.e. HV (two syncs, one horizontal and another vertical, for RGBHV, or S in RGBS, which has both syncs on one wire; there are a few other formats too like Sony's "sync on green," RGsB).

Good luck with the 20F1, many systems will be able to use RGB cables for it right off the bat, although people can have plenty of problems with them. You can always ask at Shmups before shelling out for a cable if it'll be a good deal.

Personally, I agree, S-Video often looks pretty nice. More vivid colors would be nice though.

Oh my bad, I actually already knew that (the part about ps3 upscaling) i just messed up when wording it, I meant to say my CRT tv simply had component in but was not 480p capable

[Ed Oscuro]

Yeah, that's quite normal. I don't know if the 20L1 has any 480p support but it might. The more recent 20L5 supports 1080i and will also do 480p. I don't think you have to full around with SDI input cards for these models.

[theclaw]

Doesn't the PS3 render 240p games at 240p, then interlace before final 480i output? I don't really feel like dragging my PS3 to another room just to glare at scanlines...

As I understand 240p consoles render and output progressive no different from 480p. But traditional 480i TVs interlace in the display process.

[Ed Oscuro]

Doesn't the PS3 render 240p games at 240p, then interlace before final 480i output? I don't really feel like dragging my PS3 to another room just to glare at scanlines...

As I understand 240p consoles render and output progressive no different from 480p. But traditional 480i TVs interlace in the display process.

Well, the PS3 might throw a wrench in the works churning out an easy answer because PS1 compatibility is provided by an emulator. I don't know if it's selectable what it outputs at; I read something the other day about people having problems with (most) Wii VC games because most of them output 240p (like they originally would) instead of 480i. Then they started outputting 480i as standard, with a button combination to choose 240p (see Fudoh's post here).

It really depends on the television itself whether 240p is supported, being that it is basically a non-standard (but great) "trick" mode, or whether 480i is the way to go.

About 240p classic consoles, they'll always output 240p, but I think you would be hard-pressed to find a CRT TV that does not recognize their signals (assuming it accepts the right connection of course). 480p didn't have much of a lifespan, but it is slightly different from 240p in that it was both officially supported, and it also needs 480p-compatible sets specifically, and on these sets I am sure the scanline spacing is such that you do not get the classic scanlines of old consoles.

The simple answer to the question - no, traditional 480i TVs do not scanline when displaying a signal. The whole point of 240p is that using a trick (timing I believe), both fields are displayed on the same line, rather than alternating. Give an interlaced tube television a 480i signal, of course, and it will display it correctly. It's just a quirk, a fortunate one, that allows 480i televisions to display a 240p signal.

[WCP]

Silver lining tho, all this led to me biting the bullet and jumping on the rgb bandwagon with a Sony bvm 20f1u

Basically I want the vivid colors i got from component with the detail from original hardware, its gotten to the point where I will accept no substitutes

Wow, there's no going back now. Assuming the 20F1U you're getting is in good shape, you'll never want to play your retro games on any other display. Are you going to get that scart adapter from that dude on Atari Age ?

[Greg2600]

I would NOT recommend Sony HDTV's for 240P signals! Samsung gets my personal vote (from experience).

[theclaw]

Well, the PS3 might throw a wrench in the works churning out an easy answer because PS1 compatibility is provided by an emulator. I don't know if it's selectable what it outputs at; I read something the other day about people having problems with (most) Wii VC games because most of them output 240p (like they originally would) instead of 480i. Then they started outputting 480i as standard, with a button combination to choose 240p (see Fudoh's post here).

It's largely a PAL issue on Wii. Except for Neo Geo, 240p even in NTSC.

Nintendo Europe had the bright idea to remove 480p from most VC games.

[LaughingMAN.S9]

Wow, there's no going back now. Assuming the 20F1U you're getting is in good shape, you'll never want to play your retro games on any other display. Are you going to get that scart adapter from that dude on Atari Age ?

I was going to but then I saw over in the neo geo forums that he wouldn't be making some for a while on top of the already month long waiting list to get them after payment so i said screw it, bought one from retrovideogamecables for 50, looks to be of slightly higher quality to


Finding playstation euro scarts is harder than I thought it would be, Saturn scart was the one i thought would be hard to find but got that on my first search.

[theclaw]

I was going to but then I saw over in the neo geo forums that he wouldn't be making some for a while on top of the already month long waiting list to get them after payment so i said screw it, bought one from retrovideogamecables for 50, looks to be of slightly higher quality to


Finding playstation euro scarts is harder than I thought it would be, Saturn scart was the one i thought would be hard to find but got that on my first search.

It's not been proven. But the box for one 3rd party scart suggests the possibility of an actual US release.

Some clues point to that.
-Does not mention the word "scart".
-Company address in Los Angeles CA.
-American spelling (maximize, color, favorite...)