Are "hardcore" gamers ruining the industry?

[Bojay1997]

I'm sure there were huge flamewars over Tennis for Two versus Spacewar, but don't forget the Internet existed since 1969...

p.s. Bojay, Frankie gave you a whole bunch of reasons there and you chose to just ignore them. Super awesome debating tacticalness!

Incorrect. He simply provided a laundry list of complaints he has seen people make around the Internet in regard to the game industry. My challenge to him was to offer even one solid example of a company that has been negatively impacted financially or unable to continue producing games as a result of people posting negative things on the Internet. He wasn't able to provide even one. My conclusion is that's because his premise is fundamentally flawed. I also believe, on the contrary, that there is plenty of positive stuff written about games and the industry but that he is simply focused on the negative because it sticks out more prominently because it's the exception and not the rule.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Incorrect. He simply provided a laundry list of complaints he has seen people make around the Internet in regard to the game industry. My challenge to him was to offer even one solid example of a company that has been negatively impacted financially or unable to continue producing games as a result of people posting negative things on the Internet. He wasn't able to provide even one. My conclusion is that's because his premise is fundamentally flawed. I also believe, on the contrary, that there is plenty of positive stuff written about games and the industry but that he is simply focused on the negative because it sticks out more prominently because it's the exception and not the rule.

There's a difference between not being able to produce an example and not being interested in a point/counterpoint debate.

I could produce a list examples of software that has been negatively impacted by what I perceive to be negative press/negative popular opinion of what amounts to minutia but it's going to come down to - I think it's the negativity of the gaming public and gaming press and you think it's the companies making bad decisions that are anti consumer.

So, clearly, the "challenge" isn't worth what is inevitably going to be a stalemate of opinions at best.

I think that the industry treats us pretty good and that people generally over-react. You think inversely. Let's agree to disagree and move on.

[JSoup]

The thing thats ruining the gaming industry is the internet. People going after each other in flame wars, and then others see it and think all video game players have "problems", I blame COD for making this a big thing.

Maybe we should all just learn to get along?

Pretty much this. It's gone from the occasional heated nerd fight to out-right hostility across the internet, with a dash of brainless masses mixed in. It's made me realize that I really dislike referring to myself as a gamer, I'm simply a guy who plays video games now and then.

[LaughingMAN.S9]

You know that people who don't share my opinion wouldn't accept any evidence that I'd be able or willing to present, so that's not even a road worth going down.

People who see the industry in 2013 as some type of evil empire out to get us/that we need to constantly rebel against - there's no way I'm going to sway them with "evidence".

Also, I'm not talking about legitimate reasons to be angry.

There are absolutely legitimate reasons to be angry.

I strongly believe in consumer advocacy, but so much of what other people see as anti-consumer I just see as "business".

Sorry if I'm not outraged by so much that makes our community pound their fists on their keyboards and grunt at their monitors.

A game that ships in a legitimately broken state where the end-user is unable to play it is an absolute reason for public outcry. Thankfully in this modern era - we're fortunate to have patching on all platforms. Even a 3DS game can be patched.

Demanding that "physical media" always be available for all software on all platforms so that those of us inclined to collect, horde, buy/sell used or flip-for-profit can continue to be satiated, violent outrage over the ending of a game, a company deciding to not continue to support a "beloved" franchise on a regular/annualized basis because recent entries have not proved to generate a tremendous amount of income vs. cost to develop, or resistance to DLC/micro-transactions .... to me, calling for a rally against companies with an intent to punitively hurt their business for the reasons mentioned (or any other silly thing) is fucking ridiculous, entitled bullshit.

Often times I find myself to be embarrassed to be lumped in with so called gaming enthusiasts who can't open their mouths without spewing something caustic and disparaging about the industry that we all supposedly love.

Again, it's imperfect. It always has been and it always will be, but I'll take the good with the bad ... because, frankly it's been MUCH worse than it is now.

I'm not saying people should lie down and get bulldozed by bad business practices, but I also don't really see a LOT of bad business practices where others seem to in their minds see cartoon villains in charge of game companies cackling over how they're going to make us suffer.

In fact, I've seen no great injustices done to us in this generation. I think that the disruptions that have occurred are going to shake out with positive results. If that means no more physical games, no boxes, no manuals and no used games - so fucking be it. As long as I get to continue to play great games in the future, that's the only experience I want.

I don't generally agree to pretty much anything you say (lol) but in this case, this....a thousand times this!


You nailed it. I feel the same way, a lot of what this generation of gamers have been crying about, online passes and season passes in particular i see mostly as bitching from spoiled entitled children who didnt support the game new in the first place


Dlc that was originally in the game and was taken out like mass effect 3 protean dlc is bullshit tho

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

I don't generally agree to pretty much anything you say (lol) but in this case, this....a thousand times this!


You nailed it. I feel the same way, a lot of what this generation of gamers have been crying about, online passes and season passes in particular i see mostly as bitching from spoiled entitled children who didnt support the game new in the first place


Dlc that was originally in the game and was taken out like mass effect 3 protean dlc is bullshit tho

Thanks.

Also, for the record, I'm not out to try to convince anybody that my position is the "right" one.

It's only my opinion and food for thought.

If you happen to agree with it, great, if not, you're certainly entitled to your own and I'm not going to try to pick it apart and shout it down.

[PreZZ]

I wonder what retro gaming will look like in 15 years. No patches available for your 360 or ps3, good luck playing broken games, its gonna suck!

[Tupin]

I wonder what retro gaming will look like in 15 years. No patches available for your 360 or ps3, good luck playing broken games, its gonna suck!

Piracy will ensure that games are playable decades down the line.

[JSoup]

No patches available for your 360 or ps3, good luck playing broken games, its gonna suck!

You'd think that since so many current games have/require patches, Sony/Microsoft would think far enough ahead to make sure a patch server is always up. But I'm sure that's not what's going to happen.

[FayeC86]

You'd think that since so many current games have/require patches, Sony/Microsoft would think far enough ahead to make sure a patch server is always up. But I'm sure that's not what's going to happen.

There is no money to be made in that. The issue with most modern games is they are hard coded to reach out to networks that probably wont be there some day.

[Opti]

quit crying. As price goes up demand goes down. The game companies know this and when they price at 60 its not aimed at the people who wont pay that, they are trying to take advantage of the people that will pay the 60 dollars. Almost every industry does this. Look at cars. New model comes out and many times it sells for over sticker (think of every anticipated new model recently (ZR1, Camaro, ZL1, Mustang, FR-s, BRZ) and by the end of their life cycle they have rebates or are discounted, unless they are still selling like crazy, then the price stays high (games do the same thing, thats why blockbusters take so long to come down in price).

Tons of industries operate like this, thrifty/frugal/financially responsible/smart/hardcore/casual people are not killing the industry, at most the can change it a little, if there is a change in what people want, then firms have to change also, which can easily be seen by looking at the past trends in what type of game was popular at the time and the amount of said genre prduced and how it has changed over time (FPS today). The only time the industry will die is when there is no demand. Otherwise someone will see a profit opportunity and make games for us.

If as an audience we decide we want cheaper they will make cheaper, but they are selling plenty of the good stuff at the high cost so I dont expect it to change any time soon.

If a producer/developer/whatever complains about their audience is causing them to go out of business, I just chuckle and hope they do go out of business, their job is to earn my money, they arent entitled to it. Whoever best serves us will prosper and whoever cant will go out of business.

Capcom for example, They were once my favorite game company, right now I'm halfway hoping they go under, they have been so dissapointing lately, with so many good dormant franhcises and others that have become a tiny shadow of their former selves. If they go out of business, someone will pick up the Breath of Fire franchise and hopefully finally make a good game for it. Hell, it was rated as the franchise most needing installment or something like that, and they dont care.

You should all want some turnover in the industry, it brings innovation. Without it the industry would stagnate and we'd still be playing NES games.

Tell me im wrong

[PreZZ]

You'd think that since so many current games have/require patches, Sony/Microsoft would think far enough ahead to make sure a patch server is always up. But I'm sure that's not what's going to happen.

Definitely wont happen! So what we will need is someone dumping patches for EVERY game and find a way to update through usb key or something. At least my good old consoles are just plug n play, this will be a pain in the ass for sure.

[Orion Pimpdaddy]

The terms "hardcore" and "casual" for gamers is subjective as can be, and therefore the whole argument about which camp is ruining or saving gaming is completely insane.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

[Lothars]

Capcom for example, They were once my favorite game company, right now I'm halfway hoping they go under, they have been so dissapointing lately, with so many good dormant franhcises and others that have become a tiny shadow of their former selves. If they go out of business, someone will pick up the Breath of Fire franchise and hopefully finally make a good game for it. Hell, it was rated as the franchise most needing installment or something like that, and they dont care.

You should all want some turnover in the industry, it brings innovation. Without it the industry would stagnate and we'd still be playing NES games.

Tell me im wrong

Your wrong, Capcom is guilty of some shitty things they have done but they have done just as much good as they have ever done plus they are still releasing amazing games all the time, Now hoping they go under makes you exactly what Rob was referring to.

I don't understand that though process and actually I think it's pretty insane.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Your wrong, Capcom is guilty of some shitty things they have done but they have done just as much good as they have ever done plus they are still releasing amazing games all the time, Now hoping they go under makes you exactly what Rob was referring to.

I don't understand that though process and actually I think it's pretty insane.

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

The veritable blood-lust to watch companies burn baffles and saddens me.

I mean, for anybody who calls Capcom (or any other developer/producer/publisher) one of their favorites, but now wants to see them "go under" instead of rallying or hoping for them to instead LISTEN to their fans and correct or stop repeating mistakes/failings is just downright senseless negativity.

Yet, in 2013, thanks to this sentiment being published and parroted over and over it has become the default for a lot of gamers - "Game X sucks, I hope Company X goes out of business."

It's just sad.

[Tupin]

Companies that mess up too much and that alienate fans deserve to go out of business. I don't see how that's bad for the consumer.

[SOL BADGUY]

Ill bring up another type of industry that I see some parallels with video gaming in a lot of ways: pro wrestling.

Theres not a "hardcore" vs "casual" dynamic in the fandom , because pro wrestling fans wither they only watch Raw or have seen every 5 star rated match there is, lusts for the day that their friends and girls on the street will accept wrestling as a normal pass time. Fans on message boards talk about why this thing in wrestling sucks or why things were better back in the day too. Almost everyone you ran into on a pro wrestling message board wanted TNA to go out of business because they only did harm to the industry. Theres some fans who only think guys in WWE could be worth their time to care about and stuff in Japan wasnt for them. But as I said, it doesnt matter what level of pro wrestling fan you are, everyone just wants everyone to like wrestling and no one would go after others because they hadnt watched as many matches this week as they had. Theres no internal division made.

So just stop it, realize that you guys like the same medium of entertainment. If someone who plays a ton of FB games tells you youre wasting your time playing video games, just say you spend as much time playing the games as they do on FB so it doesnt matter what games people play, were all gamers.

Heres something to end this with.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

Companies that mess up too much and that alienate fans deserve to go out of business. I don't see how that's bad for the consumer.

"mess up too much" is far too often a myopic viewpoint.

Companies like Capcom, EA and Activision have many contracted designers and studios working for them.

To "wish" for the complete and total collapse of a publisher based on what is potentially isolated/unique failings is pretty unfair if you ask me.

As far as "alienated" fans go ... while in some cases publishers may suffer for not listening to their core demographic, I'm sure there are a lot of things that they absolutely have statistics on projected profit vs. time, money and effort to be expended and they see that whatever it is that the "fans" are crying for just is. not. worth. it.

In those cases, patience pays off. Just because Capcom isn't making a Mega Man game this year doesn't mean that they're NEVER going to make one again. If you wind up rallying the fans to destroy the company through consumer boycott, well, that's a fair chance that you'll REALLY never see a property get picked up and utilized again.

[bb_hood]

Capcom for example, They were once my favorite game company, right now I'm halfway hoping they go under, they have been so dissapointing lately, with so many good dormant franhcises and others that have become a tiny shadow of their former selves. If they go out of business, someone will pick up the Breath of Fire franchise and hopefully finally make a good game for it. Hell, it was rated as the franchise most needing installment or something like that, and they dont care.

You should all want some turnover in the industry, it brings innovation. Without it the industry would stagnate and we'd still be playing NES games.

Tell me im wrong

You are wrong, Capcom is releasing stuff on the PSN (and probably xbox wiiu) all the time. Really good stuff too, I tend to buy everything they release on the PSN.
Plus Capcom's fighting games, MvC3 and Street FIghter are still really popular. There are always people playing them online. The current popular Capcom games do not need a new installment yet, alot of people are still playing them. They do need to bring back the Breath of Fire franchise and Im sure they will. They brought back Bionic Commando, twice.

[PreZZ]

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

The veritable blood-lust to watch companies burn baffles and saddens me.

I mean, for anybody who calls Capcom (or any other developer/producer/publisher) one of their favorites, but now wants to see them "go under" instead of rallying or hoping for them to instead LISTEN to their fans and correct or stop repeating mistakes/failings is just downright senseless negativity.

Yet, in 2013, thanks to this sentiment being published and parroted over and over it has become the default for a lot of gamers - "Game X sucks, I hope Company X goes out of business."

It's just sad.

Not if its EA!!

[Tanooki]

Sure it's not good to wish death to a developer and it is part of the problem that's confusing some here loving but wanting stuff to die or be gobbled up, but I think in the case of Capcom, EA and Activision if you look long term over say 10+ years of history you'll see this repeated pattern that happens. Those three companies kind of fall into a history teachers favorite saying on 'why bother' to the kids who think it's junk -- if you don't learn from history you're doomed to repeat the failures of the past. Fans don't seem to learn that lesson at all. The three tend to do some atrocious things to their games and in turn the fans who buy the stuff, they'll lie about things, manipulate people into buying stuff in hopes of getting more, dangling carrots that really aren't on the stick, and when they push it too far and enough bitching arises they'll do something 'nice' as fan service and it's like every pissed off person gets amnesia and the company gets another free pass. Those big three do take that history lesson to heart as they know they can royally screw the consumer, fake an apology, do some little fan service thing or project, then go back to twisting the knife. Keep in mind I'm not talking isolated behaviors but long term accumulated stuff that shows a history. Wishing some developer would fail over one or two bad choices is pretty foolish.

If all three of them dropped dead and their franchises got auctioned off like what happened to THQ so more competent and non-deaf developers and publishers can get some of these IPs to make great games I don't think it's such a bad thing to wish some of these 'favorites' would just drop dead. Stagnation and knife twisting behaviors are doing no one into the industry who buy good games any favors either.