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Thread: Japanese SA-1 SFC games on US SNES?

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    Pac-Man (Level 10) Rickstilwell1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ApolloBoy View Post
    How does cutting off a couple of tabs inside a covered cart slot introduce more dust?
    I have no idea, but my idea introduces plenty of dust during the play session.

    If I was going to butcher some plastic I'd rather do it to a cheap ugly unit I found at a thrift store, like mine which doesn't even have the dust cover for the cartridge slot. $5 deck!
    [quote name='Shidou Mariya' date='Nov 17 2010, 10:05 PM' post='4889940']
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    Not as extreme as Rickstilwell though.[/quote]


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    drowning in medals Ed Oscuro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ApolloBoy View Post
    How does cutting off a couple of tabs inside a covered cart slot introduce more dust?
    Good question

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Oscuro View Post
    Maybe I am being hypersensitive or hypocritical here, but I just don't see the need for any reaction to mentioning the alternatives, especially when it comes with overtones of the extended discussion not being welcome: I don't think you know what a Forum is for. Nobody "owns" a topic, although I would draw the line at diverting the topic without answering the OP - which you will note didn't happen here, at least not until random (and useless) complaints about my post started showing up, and the original question was answered (but only in one way). There's no harm in getting extra info out there and starting new lines of discussion. I feel my post is worthwhile if it made somebody think about the issue in a way they hadn't before, or considered doing things differently - even if they ended up taking somebody else's advice. For example, your pointing out that SA-1 titles aren't not going to work with the Game Genie is a worthy contribution to the topic. Why can't we have the discussion take a direction more like that?

    What is a waste is belaboring the obvious - railing against my little suggestions by stating that it would take "time and money" to try to find a non-destructive route for playing SFC games on a SNES, which I don't deny. For some people, having a pristine, untouched SNES will be worth it. There's no call for "if you ask me" posts which really aim to belittle somebody differing opinion. The sad thing is that Rick Stilwell has pointed out another possibility but it's getting drowned out because let's fight like cavemen over whose opinion is the strongest hurr

    That said, it is strange you're apparently now fighting to not go on record agreeing with my statement that tabs-out means damage to the the SNES shell (which it does, even though it's prompted by an original design flaw; the "mod" doesn't look as nice and leaves a gap for dust and other obnoxious stuff to crawl into), and it serves no purpose.

    I'm not going to go over the whole CRT issue again, and it's especially stupid to bring it up now because I don't think I left any hint, here, suggesting that what people want to do with their own machines is wrong. (I didn't last time, either, but you never seemed able to comprehend that fact.)

    So, how about dem adapters? Aussie2B had one here for sale some years before the Wiggy era, and some Canadian bloke had one on eBay recently. I think all this really entails is just a straight PCB with traces straight through; it's a bit puzzling to me there aren't more out there because you can order a similar product for the Sega Master System, by default in a "more system-tab-friendly" variant, even.
    So you are welcome to give your opinion (even when it doesn't help to answer the OP's Q), but I can't share mine regarding what I feel is a waste of time when trying to play SFC games on the SNES? Yes, hypocritical.

    We did. All I said was that the SA-1 chip games won't work with the GG and that I think it's both difficult and a waste of time to track down a pass through which will allow that. That's me adding info (i.e. a pass through that will offer what the OP needs is going to be pricey and hard to track down).

    So you don't argue with my point. What's the issue then exactly? Do you not like that I feel it would be a waste of time to do so? You feel that breaking the tabs is not the best route to go, and I feel that tracking down a pricey adapter is a waste. I don't take it personally that you don't like the tabs to be broken from the SNES, and my opinion about pricey adapters really has nothing to do with you personally.

    I'm not gonna argue semantics with ya. You're welcome to label it as "damage", but don't insist that I called or regard it as such. The mod can be done so that it looks factory and I have no clue what you mean by letting extra dust in or that it "serves no purpose"(?).




    I use that thread as another example of how you disregard/misinterpret/misunderstand the questions which people ask, whether it be intentional or not.


    There probably aren't a lot of those adapters available at this point because modifying the console itself is so damned easy and pretty much free. You could easily buy 2 or more SNES units for the or the price of that adapter. Soyou could keep your original SNES pristine, and then buy another to modify.

    Also, there's this goofy option.

    http://www.consolegoods.co.uk/

    (under SNES, "SNES SFX (Super FX) import adaptor/convertor")
    Last edited by wiggyx; 04-03-2013 at 05:33 PM.

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    drowning in medals Ed Oscuro's Avatar
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    I have to start out by acknowledging that yeah, I do come across as questioning the tab modification, but I think that's a reasonable opinion to have. If everything in the hobby came down only to money, shit, we'd all be bootleggers. However you respond with a strident "that's a stupid thing to say, if you ask me" type post in response to that, so you don't have any reason to act "holier than thou," either. We probably both should stop being so defensive about what other people write in response to what we write, but frankly, your first post in response to me is more obviously defensive and seeking to attack a legitimate opinion than mine. And that takes me to the second point...

    About this whole "you don't answer the question" smear you're trying to stick on me: You admit there already was an answer to the topic, and no attempt to suppress it, so the charge doesn't even make sense. At the same time, it's not an exhaustive answer, and I attempted to offer some other ideas - you're just being nonsensical when you accuse me of not trying to answer the question. As you note, I gave two other potential answers (one tentative, because I didn't remember if it worked for the SA-1, and of course I was corrected, no harm done although of course I wouldn't have mentioned it if I had remembered correctly). Like I said, I don't hold other people to some personal standard about what information they should use, but "if you ask me" you show nothing but contempt for anybody who tries to offer another opinion, and that is not a healthy thing for a Forum. Incidentally, I was the first person to open up another line of conversation which other people have tried to follow (Rick Stilwell, theclaw) in between the wreckage of our rather stupid and wholly unnecessary squabble.

    I'll do my best to be more respectful but that's a two-way street, man, excuse the cliche.

    I'm chill. You gonna be?
    Last edited by Ed Oscuro; 04-03-2013 at 09:50 PM.

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    Pac-Man (Level 10) Rickstilwell1's Avatar
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    That's just the way I operate. If I don't find what other people are saying is useful to me or the person asking the question, I just try to come up with an idea that makes the one being argued about less important to even argue about anymore. People would go "forget these guys, this guy's idea is even better."

    The solution I actually used first was to take my old FC Twin (which I bought only to play NES games with an SNES controller) and do the tab cutting on it. Because #1 being a cheap clone they should have already made it non-region locked like the rest of them, and #2 the games ran much more accurately for SNES than for NES so I didn't mind playing my only PAL SNES game Mr. Nutz on it. The only problem is that that solution probably wouldn't work with certain copies of games with special chips because the FC Twin model had come out before the other clones that fixed those issues.
    [quote name='Shidou Mariya' date='Nov 17 2010, 10:05 PM' post='4889940']
    I'm a collector, but only to a certain extent.
    Not as extreme as Rickstilwell though.[/quote]


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    Quote Originally Posted by Rickstilwell1 View Post
    People would go "forget these guys, this guy's idea is even better."


    Oh yeah, I'm looking over that site you linked, Wiggyx, thanks for that!

    Hm, a variety of pros and cons with the device. It might help increase the lifespan of console pins but if the connector material isn't the right type there's a possibility of corrosion if left against the wrong kind of metal (haven't been able to dig up the connector material type, but it could happen with some early PCs). It represents an ever-so-slight increase in distance of the cartridge (hence slower access) and slightly more resistance (more metal to travel through) but this will not cause any kind of practical or even measurable difference to gameplay and probably not to power usage either. And, of course, it costs more than removing the offensive tabs.

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    Welp, I cut the tabs out of both my mini and original SNES consoles. Though now that I have The original one all together again, I'm having a hard time getting the reset button to slide. I guess it's not really all that important, but still...

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    FWIW SA-1 games are playable on the SD2SNES now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coreykun667 View Post
    Welp, I cut the tabs out of both my mini and original SNES consoles. Though now that I have The original one all together again, I'm having a hard time getting the reset button to slide. I guess it's not really all that important, but still...
    That shouldn't happen...I would open it back up again and try putting it together again, sounds like something isn't fit right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Oscuro View Post
    So, how about dem adapters? Aussie2B had one here for sale some years before the Wiggy era, and some Canadian bloke had one on eBay recently. I think all this really entails is just a straight PCB with traces straight through; it's a bit puzzling to me there aren't more out there because you can order a similar product for the Sega Master System, by default in a "more system-tab-friendly" variant, even.
    Funny you should bring that up considering the whole reason I sold that adapter was because it didn't support SA-1 chip games (actually, I've had two adapters pass through my hands, and neither supported those games). When I was first getting into Super Famicom games, I wanted to go with an adapter because I was worried how well I could pull off the modification and I didn't really want to do any damage to my system. But the first game I wanted to play through, Star Ocean, the reason I bought an adapter in the first place, uses the side tabs, and I assumed that an adapter would allow me to play all Super Famicom games. I spent months waiting to land good deals on an adapter (which set me back around $30 with a couple cheap freebie games that I didn't care about) and then Star Ocean itself (which was usually $60+ back then for a complete copy). After all my patience and the eager anticipation of finally getting to play, you can imagine my disappointment when all I got was scrambled graphics. Those stupid converters often have side slots so the tabs can fit in, but if you look closely, you can see that the slots are completely empty. I immediately said "To hell with this" and modified the system. I was amazed at how easy it was and how clean it looked. I didn't need a game bit or anything. With just a pair of needlenose pliers, I bent the relatively soft plastic back and forth until it all chipped away, leaving only a slight seam. I felt like a fool for ever wasting my time and money on those stupid adapters. I can respect that some people absolutely do not want to modify their systems in any shape or form, but SNES modification will always been my personal recommendation to any American gamer interested in Super Famicom games. Besides, I also have an unmodified SNES kicking around if I ever concerned myself with wanting to possess an untouched model (and I have a third SNES, the mini version, that is also modified).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg2600 View Post
    FWIW SA-1 games are playable on the SD2SNES now.
    Whoa, really? It seems like only yesterday that every source was saying "Not now, maybe never." That's great news, but now my Super EverDrive is looking nervous...

    BTW my understanding is that PAL games need either (a) certain models of Pro Action Replay, or (b) a console mod (snipping a leg on the lockout chip) to work -- but that the mod breaks compatibility with certain games unless you add a switch. Is there a third alternative, maybe modding the lockout chip on the cart itself?

    The only PAL games I can't play via flashcart are Dirt Racer (which I have and can't play) and Winter Gold (which I don't have yet). Both use the SuperFX, and I'm reluctant to mod my SNES or spend big bucks on a PAR just to play 2 games (one of which is allegedly crap).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie2B View Post
    Funny you should bring that up considering the whole reason I sold that adapter was because it didn't support SA-1 chip games (actually, I've had two adapters pass through my hands, and neither supported those games).
    Thanks for the info. I guess the buyer found that out the hard way, though. Caveat emptor?

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    Huh? I said exactly what it was, brand and all (and who knows what extra info/pictures I may have shared privately), and I don't remember the buyer being anything but happy. If somebody is looking specifically for one of the rare adapters that does support SA-1 chip games, it's their job to do the research to find out which brands and models have that feature and to ask sellers questions if necessary. It's not a seller's job to guess at what the buyer knows or doesn't know or wants or doesn't want (in fact, I don't think I even knew at the time that adapters that do support them existed). I don't at all blame the seller who sold the adapter to me. I wasn't promised that I could play every single Super Famicom game in existence with it. I got exactly what I paid for, a working SFC to SNES adapter. It was my mistake for not knowing that most SNES adapters don't support SA-1 games. I mean, what, was I required to say that it won't play PAL games too? Or that it won't play NES games? If I sell a Genesis 3, am I required to point out that it can't connect to a Sega CD? If I sell a toploading NES, am I required to point out that it doesn't output composite? When somebody sells something, all you have to do is explain what it is, if it works, and point out any damage. Suggesting that it's necessary to point out what it DOESN'T do, when it was never made to do that in the first place, is just absurd. You make it sound as if I sold something that was broken and conned somebody, and I don't appreciate that at all.

    Christ, to think I'm being called out for how I sold something NINE years ago when I never once heard a complaint from the buyer, not immediately after nor later on. Ridiculous.

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    With the cost of adapters I don't see why more people don't just import Super Famicom systems. I mean if you do that you can usually get those cool looking Super Famicom controllers with it as well as a game lot.
    [quote name='Shidou Mariya' date='Nov 17 2010, 10:05 PM' post='4889940']
    I'm a collector, but only to a certain extent.
    Not as extreme as Rickstilwell though.[/quote]


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    Hot damn, an apology is in order for that. I didn't intend to mean you were deliberately misleading anyone and will say no more on that but I am sorry to have given you that distress. At the same time, I certainly didn't (and it has unfortunately proven not to be) "funny" that I mentioned the sale; it hasn't been easy to find good information about converters, and (for entirely innocent reasons) it's not really reasonable to expect a person to even know about the SA-1 before they go playing imports, let alone figure out that converters don't act as a simple cartridge expansion. And if they do try to cut through all the "cut the tabs" responses, they're likely to find some information like that sales thread, which as you say isn't exhaustive.

    For what it's worth, the quest continues: I read elsewhere that the Xband modem has a passthrough mode "which connects all the pins," so hopefully that will work. But at this stage, who knows. I thought a simple passthrough couldn't be too hard to produce, but then they got super fancy on me...and screwed it up, unfortunately. I'd love to see the inside of one of these converters so I could put my mind at rest about what's going on; they can't have saved any money leaving out a few (essential) traces on the PCB extension.

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    That's probably exactly why "cut the tabs" responses are so prevalent. The adapters out there are cheap unlicensed devices mostly made in Taiwan and what have you. I don't think information on them is ever going to be that great. For many players of Super Famicom games, it doesn't really matter to them what kind of adapter they get, though, since there aren't a huge number of games with enhancement chips:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ancement_chips

    And not all of those on the list use the extra pins. Going through that list, quite a few got US release, and of the Japanese exclusives, it's mostly stuff like sports and shogi, which most gamers don't care about, or RPGs and other text-heavy stuff, which a lot of importers avoid (although I don't, so it's important to me to be able to play stuff like Star Ocean, Marvelous, and Tengai Makyo Zero).

    So if you really want to spend the time and money to get one of those dumb adapters, they can get the job done for the most part. But if you care about Super Famicom games with enhancement chips, it makes a lot more sense to modify and it's a good solution for anybody looking to play Super Famicom games.

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    I found another possible choice - the Naki Tek (or maybe Nakitek, it's not clear Naki Tek and Nakitek are the same company) Game Saver. A couple on Amazon for $17 or so, and a couple on eBay for $18 + 6 S&H (but with best offer). I'm going to try to get one, but not for more than $15. I'm actually not sure I need one of these; the Game Shark super cheap passthrough method does work with quite a few titles and I don't know if I even have any SA-1 games besides a few domestics.

    However all this stuff seems dodgy to me and I have to admit cutting the tabs can't possibly fry your cartridge or system. But I'd like to see if the Naki Tek device is useful, too.

    Speaking of dumb Nintendo design decisions, it's the same situation on the N64. However I don't think there's a region lockout there, either, and certainly the situation is much better than a lockout chip and missing / displaced pins would have been (as on the NES).

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    I have a Nakitek Game Saver and just confirmed that I could load Jikkyo Oshaberi Parodius with it. It was listed at http://www.mobygames.com/attribute/s...ributeId,1162/ as having the SA-1 coprocessor.
    I also tried a Super 8, Honey Bee Adapter, and Game Genie without success.

    Cutting the tabs seems the most reasonable solution and works perfectly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Oscuro View Post
    Speaking of dumb Nintendo design decisions, it's the same situation on the N64. However I don't think there's a region lockout there, either, and certainly the situation is much better than a lockout chip and missing / displaced pins would have been (as on the NES).
    Playing imports on a US N64 isn't too hard, but I'd say it's slightly more of a pain in the butt than with the SNES. The tabs are in the corners of the slot so you can't get a grip around them, and the plastic seems harder as well. You need some more serious tools to pull off a modification than merely a pair of pliers and a little elbow grease. Most methods require opening the system up to either remove the entire plastic piece with the tabs or to cut them out, so you'd need a game bit for those approaches. I personally melted the tabs down with a soldering iron, which didn't require opening the system, but it's not nearly as pretty as my SNES modifications (and I got a couple tiny melt marks on the flaps).

    And I also have heard that some N64 games won't work with some of the passthrough devices out there, so the adapter route isn't perfect either.

    However, one advantage the N64 has is that, besides the different notches for the tabs, the plastic front and back pieces of N64 carts are the same for both Japan and the US, unlikely the entirely different cart designs of SFC and SNES games. You can just as well open up an N64 import you want to play, open up some random US cart, swap the back pieces, and close them up. Then your Japanese game will fit in the system just as well as any US cart. Then just swap the shells again when you're done. Of course, this all requires a game bit too.

    Even though it sucks that imports can't be immediately played on a US SNES or N64, I'm not going to complain or suggest that Nintendo was dumb. I'm very glad they made it as easy as it is. Most home consoles have regional lockout, and the fact that the SNES and N64 merely have a physical lockout that's easy to get around is great.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie2B View Post
    That's probably exactly why "cut the tabs" responses are so prevalent. The adapters out there are cheap unlicensed devices mostly made in Taiwan and what have you. I don't think information on them is ever going to be that great. For many players of Super Famicom games, it doesn't really matter to them what kind of adapter they get, though, since there aren't a huge number of games with enhancement chips:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ancement_chips

    And not all of those on the list use the extra pins. Going through that list, quite a few got US release, and of the Japanese exclusives, it's mostly stuff like sports and shogi, which most gamers don't care about, or RPGs and other text-heavy stuff, which a lot of importers avoid (although I don't, so it's important to me to be able to play stuff like Star Ocean, Marvelous, and Tengai Makyo Zero).

    So if you really want to spend the time and money to get one of those dumb adapters, they can get the job done for the most part. But if you care about Super Famicom games with enhancement chips, it makes a lot more sense to modify and it's a good solution for anybody looking to play Super Famicom games.
    Indeed dumb is literally correct in this case, NTSC import adapters are passive.
    Either the sides are connected or not. They contain no functional purpose of their own.
    Last edited by theclaw; 04-09-2013 at 08:46 PM.
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