Exposing VGA (Video Game Grading Authority)

[badinsults]

Dangerboy, a long time contributor to DP, has put up a great video showing how VGA is nothing more than a pyramid scheme, and does nothing to actually perserve games.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BbHDMXxm04

If you look at VGA auctions, most of them do not sell for any more than a regular sealed copy of the game, let alone the $100+ extra it takes to actually grade the game. If you look at the supplemental video, it also shows how easy it is to create a fake misprint, something that VGA actually graded. Also shown in the video is that the item itself was damaged after being sealed in the case, proving that the cases do not actually provide full protection for the game.

And let's face it, people who use VGA are not interested in preservation. Take this auction of a NES prototype. The seller explicitly states that the ROM image of the prototype has not been dumped. How can you justify sealling up a prototype without dumping the binary? The memory on EPROMs do not last forever, especially when they are allowed to be exposed to open light like they are in this auction.

[bb_hood]

Wow, nice video. I found the part about the ventilation in the cases kinda shocking, I always assumed they were air-tight.
If they were encasing them professionally Id think they would all wear gloves and do the procedure in an area with humidity control. I mean, that seems very basic to me. OF COURSE if air can get in so can more moisture. OF COURSE it will oxidize over time.

Ive never understood the point in getting anything graded, but I also have never understood the outrage against doing it.
Lets face it, most of the people here own more video games than they have time to play. Placing sealed copies of video games in plastic tombs at 50-100$ each will not make opened video games scarce by any means. Quite frankly I really dont care what people do with their money, if someone wants to waste tons of $$ building a VGA collection or getting games graded I dont see how that affects me at all. I dont see how some chump spending hundreds or thousands on a sealed nintendo game will make a loose playable cart more expensive. Totally different buyers; hardcore collectors with alot of money to blow looking to build museum-like libraries are not gonna care about loose/used games, and simple player/collectors (aka people with brains) who have absolutely no intention on spending over 15$ for contra/mario/or any other game.

And most importantly, those cases can be opened. Just give me 5 minutes alone with one and Im sure I can get it open

[TonyTheTiger]

As much as I've grown tired of the VGA ordeal, this is a good video that clearly and concisely points out most of the problems with the whole thing. It sums up pretty much everything that needs to be said in under 20 minutes.

I'm just waiting for the day someone pays to get a game graded, cracks open the case, resubmits it, and gets a completely different grade. I'm convinced there's no meaningful quality assurance going on that can't be reproduced by any semi-diligent consumer. It's unbelievable how an organization could claim a particular expertise, forgo actually explaining said expertise (likely by filing their actual methodology under "trade secrets"), and then convince people to actually trust them based on their word alone.

[bb_hood]

I'm convinced there's no meaningful quality assurance

Thats the problem, there is no quality assurance or proof of expertise by the graders.
Now you can argue that the case will preserve the seal or condition, but I think one major reason people have stuff graded or buy graded games is they think the grade PROVES that the games are authentically sealed. If you buy a sealed game on ebay how the hell can you tell the seal is genuine by just looking at pictures or reading a description? You cant ever be 100% sure. I think people see the grading and think 'well this game was checked by some kind of expert, so the seal has to be legit'. The fact that there is proof of VGA grading open games and grading opened games that have been re-sealed is evidence that 1), the VGA encasing is no guarantee of an authentic seal; 2) there is a good chance they will grade anything (within reason) for money; and 3) THEY ARE NOT EXPERTS IN ANYTHING IN ANY WAY. Like seriously, where the hell do you go to get training on looking at shrink wrap thats 10-20 years old and giving a definite answer to whether the game is authentically sealed or not?

[Panzerfuzion]

I've heard rumors that VGA is a guy in his garage. The fact that they "SLAB" opened items such as the NWC Gold is a joke.

[wiggyx]

I've heard rumors that VGA is a guy in his garage. The fact that they "SLAB" opened items such as the NWC Gold is a joke.

I doubt it. Considering that the company grades a large variety of items and in seemingly pretty large volume, it would be REALLY tough to do as a one or two man show.

[Tanooki]

I can imagine how many peoples heads would implode if this was up on NA.

Sure it's opinion, but isn't that the point of an investigative reporting when you can not get the target of your piece to cooperate and explain things? I've always had a problem with VGA and he added some reasons. I never realized how that pricing tier chart worked and how it works much like a pyramid scheme. I do realize clearly they're full of shit when they're too afraid to post what their standards are and who their qualified reviewers are establishing exactly why they're experts. I've seen people at NA I'd trust far more who are friendly and super into pristine sealed stuff I'd trust far more than that smoke shrouded service for authentication. And what is up with the blister packed VGA cased MGS thing on that video? Clearly, that's a fucked up book and look at the lettering of the grading. And what of the qualified (open but not used) Namco PS1 CD. Claimed opened but not used, he makes a great point anyone could submit the same 'case or manual' art error and get themselves a unique cased gem too which is fraud.

He makes a great point about the air hole there and oxidation with old cartridges, it really is a glorified sneeze guard. If you fear oxidation or sweat, wouldn't creating a true airless vacuum in the case stop the sweats as there would be no environment inside the case so you couldn't get water with no air (H20, no 0 no water.)

[Atarileaf]

I can imagine how many peoples heads would implode if this was up on NA.

Go post the link over there and lets see what happens

[Graham Mitchell]

It's just amazing how this topic strikes a nerve in so many people.

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

It's just amazing how this topic strikes a nerve in so many people.

Seriously.

I don't take any personal offense by their existence or their services.

However, if they're out there doing a thing, they're game for criticism and I do see some logic in questioning the claims of the services that they offer.

I certainly don't think VGA is to blame for people having non-rare/common games graded and expecting some kind of massive return just because the games are slabbed/graded. People should not be using this service for any game that's not worth at least two or three times the cost of the grading service. Personally I wouldn't even consider it unless I had a game that was worth over $1000.

Also, I think it's important to note that that they have no other peers or competition in the market. They've stepped up to fill some type of void and if it turns out that they're not doing it well enough, some other company should give them some competition. It's a free market.

This coupled with the fact that they don't seem to have any transparency about their process/public representation out there talking about it beyond what's on the site that makes it easy for skeptics and detractors to soap-box against their practices. If VGA isn't out there defending, potentially offering up sound reasoning for the services that they offer - people are only going to see/hear what the critics have to say.

Like I suggested earlier, they really should visit some trade events like E3 or PAX and talk to the gaming public about what they do. I think that might help their public reputation.

[Bojay1997]

Seriously.

I don't take any personal offense by their existence or their services.

However, if they're out there doing a thing, they're game for criticism and I do see some logic in questioning the claims of the services that they offer.

I certainly don't think VGA is to blame for people having non-rare/common games graded and expecting some kind of massive return just because the games are slabbed/graded. People should not be using this service for any game that's not worth at least two or three times the cost of the grading service. Personally I wouldn't even consider it unless I had a game that was worth over $1000.

Also, I think it's important to note that that they have no other peers or competition in the market. They've stepped up to fill some type of void and if it turns out that they're not doing it well enough, some other company should give them some competition. It's a free market.

This coupled with the fact that they don't seem to have any transparency about their process/public representation out there talking about it beyond what's on the site that makes it easy for skeptics and detractors to soap-box against their practices. If VGA isn't out there defending, potentially offering up sound reasoning for the services that they offer - people are only going to see/hear what the critics have to say.

Like I suggested earlier, they really should visit some trade events like E3 or PAX and talk to the gaming public about what they do. I think that might help their public reputation.

All of your points are valid ones. Unfortunately, that's never what the vast majority of people who take issue with VGA seem to be concerned about. Instead, they take the position that only they understand what collecting is about and that anyone who collects in a different manner than they do is not a legitimate collector and is harming the hobby. The reality is that the same criticisms about collecting VGA can be made about sealed games and can be made about collecting CIB games. Frankly, if all you really care about is playing games, you can just buy loose cartridges and discs and for those games that require them, instruction manuals. Of course, I've never heard anyone take the position that collecting boxed games leads to higher prices on loose games and less supply, but it's certainly a more logical attack than that sealed games and rarer still VGA graded games are impacting prices or reducing supplies of playable games.

[o.pwuaioc]

All of your points are valid ones. Unfortunately, that's never what the vast majority of people who take issue with VGA seem to be concerned about. Instead, they take the position that only they understand what collecting is about and that anyone who collects in a different manner than they do is not a legitimate collector and is harming the hobby. The reality is that the same criticisms about collecting VGA can be made about sealed games and can be made about collecting CIB games. Frankly, if all you really care about is playing games, you can just buy loose cartridges and discs and for those games that require them, instruction manuals. Of course, I've never heard anyone take the position that collecting boxed games leads to higher prices on loose games and less supply, but it's certainly a more logical attack than that sealed games and rarer still VGA graded games are impacting prices or reducing supplies of playable games.

That's highly exaggerated. So some people don't like sealed collecting. Big whoop! Who cares? It's their right to have that opinion. They have the right to criticize, same as you or anyone else.

And from my experience, the vast majority of people who attack the VGA attack it on account of its lack of transparency and obvious scam-like operation. Most of those just so happen to also not get sealed collecting, as most video game collectors do, and a small minority openly belittle sealed collectors. (Anyone who gets their game VGA graded though deserves the belittlement.)

[Bojay1997]

That's highly exaggerated. So some people don't like sealed collecting. Big whoop! Who cares? It's their right to have that opinion. They have the right to criticize, same as you or anyone else.

And from my experience, the vast majority of people who attack the VGA attack it on account of its lack of transparency and obvious scam-like operation. Most of those just so happen to also not get sealed collecting, as most video game collectors do, and a small minority openly belittle sealed collectors. (Anyone who gets their game VGA graded though deserves the belittlement.)

It's not highly exaggerated at all. Just take a look at this very thread. There is literally one, maybe two people who are actually focused on the issues raised in the video and everyone else against VGA simply because they don't believe there is any reason to ever have a game graded let alone keeping one sealed. I would agree with you that there is a lack of transparency with regard to VGA. That's not the same as being a "scam-like operation".

[Frankie_Says_Relax]

All of your points are valid ones. Unfortunately, that's never what the vast majority of people who take issue with VGA seem to be concerned about. Instead, they take the position that only they understand what collecting is about and that anyone who collects in a different manner than they do is not a legitimate collector and is harming the hobby. The reality is that the same criticisms about collecting VGA can be made about sealed games and can be made about collecting CIB games. Frankly, if all you really care about is playing games, you can just buy loose cartridges and discs and for those games that require them, instruction manuals. Of course, I've never heard anyone take the position that collecting boxed games leads to higher prices on loose games and less supply, but it's certainly a more logical attack than that sealed games and rarer still VGA graded games are impacting prices or reducing supplies of playable games.

Oh yeah, totally.

That stuff I don't even really pay attention to.

I thought Dangerboy brought up some good points in his video. Some I agreed with, some I didn't ... but people over-reacting in this hobby/on the internet isn't going away any time soon.