Microsoft Just Posted New Xbox One Details Re Privacy, Used and Always Connected

[The Adventurer]

But they are still doing the same thing and restricting used games. Steam restricts ALL used game sales while Microsoft lets you use and sell used games in a limited capacity. But for the sake of argument lets just say that they both restrict used games. You can sugarcoat it all you want with the Steam sales but it's still the same damn thing. And I say that as someone who doesn't like or approve of Microsoft's policy because it isn't the norm for console gaming. But at the end of the day, Steam and XB1 both restrict used game sales. The difference is that PC gamers have gotten used to this and don't really complain about it anymore. Since this is new for console gamers they have atleast been trying to verbally fight back, for whatever thats worth.

Okay, but here's the thing. When I buy from Steam I am buying digital goods. It's a given that selling, sharing, or otherwise transferring games will be difficult to impossible. That is something I accept as a digital only consumer.

But we're talking about physical media. If Microsoft wanted to go full digital only, they should have just done that and given up all physical product sales. As it stands trying to have it both ways is just going to sow confusion and disdain with a consumer base that is used to doing things a certain way.

And Microsoft is basically breaking a system that isn't broken, and reinventing the wheel rarely works out in the short run.

[The 1 2 P]

Okay, but here's the thing. When I buy from Steam I am buying digital goods. It's a given that selling, sharing, or otherwise transferring games will be difficult to impossible. That is something I accept as a digital only consumer.

But we're talking about physical media. If Microsoft wanted to go full digital only, they should have just done that and given up all physical product sales. As it stands trying to have it both ways is just going to sow confusion and disdain with a consumer base that is used to doing things a certain way.

And Microsoft is basically breaking a system that isn't broken, and reinventing the wheel rarely works out in the short run.

While I was initially just comparing the used games model they are imploring I agree with you that digital vs physical is a big determining factor. And like I also said in other threads, the used game model for consoles works perfectly fine the way it is. But going back to my initial statement, Microsoft is essentially just copying the PC used game model. Doesn't mean I like or agree with it(I don't) but it is what it is. It seems they are just doing this as a precursor to their next console that will evidently be all-digital. I think they should of saved all their DRM for that system and left this one alone.

[JakeM]

Mother fucker :/ The PS4 is region free for god sakes! I think Microsoft just doesnt like Japan, and theyre cutting them off.

http://kotaku.com/microsoft-cant-tel...free-513494440

Also, these videos are hilarious!

[Guyra]

See my first post and my response to The Adventurer.

Actually, I see nowhere where you actually explain why trying to market one thing to someone interested in something else is a good thing. And I tried looking for it.

True but if you resell/trade the disc in the new purchaser will need it to install the game to their system.

I think you missed the point. The point is not whether or not someone else will have to do the same thing, it is that unlike actual video games, which play straight from the disc(or cart), this thing you have to install. Just like a PC game. Except you, in essence, also need to be constantly connected to the internet.

Basically, the discs have no actual value: They only serve to reduce bandwidth usage. On a system that has to be always on anyway. You can not play the game with the disc only, and you can not play offline even though you have to install the game. So your physical copy is basically as much worth as a physical copy of any MMO game - not much, and certainly not once the servers are taken down.

Once they were going with this thing anyway, Microsoft should've just gone eShop only. They'd have saved a lot of money on not having the discs for the system. People have to be online anyway, so they'd be better off just downloading the game. It's usually even a bit cheaper to buy games for download instead of physical copies, too.

While I enjoy sales as much as the next guy you do realize that you are using that as an excuse. "It's ok that I can't play used games on Steam because they have sales but it's not ok that you can't play used games on XB1 because we don't know what kind of sales they will have." Granted, we have no idea what kind of sales Microsoft will have. They have some pretty decent ones now(including free games every year) but I'll agree that their sales over the past four years I've had my 360 haven't been as frequent or as cheap as Steams. But regardless, they are still doing pretty much the same thing in regards to restricting used games, minus the 24 hour authentication.

Except that you can quite often pay less than you would pay for a used game there. And I doubt Microsoft will have a very different policy on sales with the Xbox One as opposed to the Xbox 360.

Also, those aren't free games - those are games that paying subscribers to Xbox Live Gold will get. In which case they're not actually free anymore. Players who do not pay to have Xbox Live Gold accounts, do not get any of these "free" games.

You can still play all the games on your account if you get a new XB1. Thats the whole reason they are using that authentication program. The major issue will of course be when they decide to shut down the servers.

Sorry, but you missed the point again: When you buy a new Xbox 1, you get the same thing. Except maybe a version with more disc space. When you buy a new computer, you can get one that is twice as powerful as your current one.

And how is that "the whole reason they are using that authentication program?" Because last I checked, you could do get a new Xbox 360, Wii, Wii U, and PS3 as well, and still play the games on your account. Without that authentication program.

[The 1 2 P]

Actually, I see nowhere where you actually explain why trying to market one thing to someone interested in something else is a good thing. And I tried looking for it.

No this is what you originally said:

they're trying to make a computer gaming machine for console gamers

And this was my original post:

Essencially this system has been set up to replicate that of PC gaming. The weird thing is that everyone seems to worship Steam but now that Microsoft is taking a similiar route everyone is complaining about it.

I think you missed the point. The point is not whether or not someone else will have to do the same thing, it is that unlike actual video games, which play straight from the disc(or cart), this thing you have to install. Just like a PC game. Except you, in essence, also need to be constantly connected to the internet.

I understood it perfectly, I was just adding that the disc could be reused if certain publishers allowed it. But yes it would once again only be for the purpose of an install. I also think they should have just gone all digital instead of doing this half-ass but their execs thought this was for the best.

Also, those aren't free games - those are games that paying subscribers to Xbox Live Gold will get. In which case they're not actually free anymore. Players who do not pay to have Xbox Live Gold accounts, do not get any of these "free" games.

Yes they are free. I've paid between $8-$30 a year for XBL for the past several years and any free games I've gotten were actually free, meaning they weren't advertised as part of the initial service(paid online multiplayer) when I signed up and were thrown in as a free bonus. Unlike PSN, if I cancel my XBL membership I get to keep all 15+ games I've gotten for free over the last 4 years. And the samething goes for all future free games. Your logic is very flawed to think that if you are a paid member of a specific service and you get additional free items that were not advertised as part of that service when you signed up that somehow those items aren't really free. By that assumption, if you are a paid cable subscriber and sometime after you've been a member for twelve months or so they offer you a free choice of five different pay-per-views as a thank you gift for staying with them you aren't really getting it for free because you are paying your regular monthly bill but will not have to pay the $50-$60 for the ppv. Thats just not correct.

Sorry, but you missed the point again: When you buy a new Xbox 1, you get the same thing. Except maybe a version with more disc space. When you buy a new computer, you can get one that is twice as powerful as your current one.

And how is that "the whole reason they are using that authentication program?" Because last I checked, you could do get a new Xbox 360, Wii, Wii U, and PS3 as well, and still play the games on your account. Without that authentication program.

For the first part, all you initially said was that with Steam you can keep playing your games if you get a new PC(same thing for getting a new XB1) or have several of them(you can play on any XB1 as long as you are logged into your account) and can upgrade your PC. I'm well aware of PC upgrading for sound cards, graphics cards, memory and everything else. So your point was that you can upgrade your PC to make it more powerful(and pay alot more money in the process)than not upgrading a current gen console? As for the second part, what else would they be using authentification for but to check rather the games you play are legitimately part of your account? It's their form of DRM.

[Ed Oscuro]

Did you folks see this yet?

and this:

Some more information on that suspicious HP box here:
http://www.dualshockers.com/2013/06/...e-games-at-e3/

PC ports incoming confirmed!

[kainemaxwell]

Whoops, wrong board.

[Guyra]

I understood it perfectly, I was just adding that the disc could be reused if certain publishers allowed it. But yes it would once again only be for the purpose of an install. I also think they should have just gone all digital instead of doing this half-ass but their execs thought this was for the best.

Apparently not. They are making a system that is more comparable to a PC than a console, and they're making it for(ie. marketing it towards) console gamers.

And yeah, I agree, they shouldn't have done things half assed like they have.

Yes they are free. I've paid between $8-$30 a year for XBL for the past several years and any free games I've gotten were actually free, meaning they weren't advertised as part of the initial service(paid online multiplayer) when I signed up and were thrown in as a free bonus. Unlike PSN, if I cancel my XBL membership I get to keep all 15+ games I've gotten for free over the last 4 years. And the samething goes for all future free games. Your logic is very flawed to think that if you are a paid member of a specific service and you get additional free items that were not advertised as part of that service when you signed up that somehow those items aren't really free. By that assumption, if you are a paid cable subscriber and sometime after you've been a member for twelve months or so they offer you a free choice of five different pay-per-views as a thank you gift for staying with them you aren't really getting it for free because you are paying your regular monthly bill but will not have to pay the $50-$60 for the ppv. Thats just not correct.

They are only "free" if you have the subscription. Normal Xbox Live members do not get them, ie. they have to pay for Gold membership if they want them. This is not flawed logic. Sure, they are bonuses, but they are not truly for free. You have to pay for the service through which you get them. You don't get them unless you are paying Microsoft money. How is that free? The same with your hypothetical example there. You don't get those PPVs without handing money over to the cable company in the first place. Again, it's not free, it's an added bonus, and one that is there only to keep you paying, and get more people subscribing. I'm not saying it's bad practise, getting some added bonus benefits when you're paying for something is great. I'm just saying it's not really free, it just seems like it is to the paying customer.

Although kudos to MS for letting you keep the games. I'm not really for having to pay for PS+ anyway, just to make that clear.

For the first part, all you initially said was that with Steam you can keep playing your games if you get a new PC(same thing for getting a new XB1) or have several of them(you can play on any XB1 as long as you are logged into your account) and can upgrade your PC. I'm well aware of PC upgrading for sound cards, graphics cards, memory and everything else. So your point was that you can upgrade your PC to make it more powerful(and pay alot more money in the process)than not upgrading a current gen console?

While you can play on a different XB1 using your account, you can only do so for a single hour, and then your "home" XB1 will have to reauthenticate. That is barely being able to play anywhere else at all. That is a restriction.

And upgrading your computer(or buying a brand new one), compare it to switching from the Xbox 360 to the Xbox One. You get a brand new gaming machine. But you're no longer able to play the Xbox 360 games on your XB1. Although some 360 games will be available on the Live Marketplace, but then you'd have to buy them a second time. The same goes for the PS4.

With a PC on the other hand, you can still play all the games that you bought since before the nineties if you so want. And you don't pay more money upgrading your computer to specs better than the consoles, than you would pay for the consoles themselves. And when the next generation of consoles comes out, you can upgrade again, and keep playing all your favourite games, both new and old, still on that one machine.

As for the second part, what else would they be using authentification for but to check rather the games you play are legitimately part of your account? It's their form of DRM.

It is also used to check on what machine you're playing. As I mentioned above, and as several others probably have mentioned as well, you are only allowed to play for a single hour if you're not playing on that one console to which your account is connected. That is no longer just checking whether you own the game or not, it is restricting how you enjoy playing. For example, I often get together with friends and play for hours at a time. Quite often the game does not belong in the home we're at, but we can still play it for as long as we like. With XB1, we'd only be able to play for a single hour, before I'd have to get home and make sure my XB1 gets reauthenticated.

And don't forget, it doesn't just want to authenticate when playing games. It wants to authenticate once every day, no matter if you even own a game or no. That is not DRM.



Anyway, I hope you see my points by now. If not, then I don't see how else I can make you understand them. In any case, this will be my last post in reply to you on these matters because I'm simply not cut out for long discussions - it's simply a bit taxing on me. Cheers!

[JakeM]

http://kotaku.com/microsoft-we-wont-...ium=Socialflow

The question:
After the Xbox One servers are shut down at the end of the new generation, will Xbox One games still be playable?

Major Nelson's answer (emphasis added):
I'll just say this: We haven't even started this generation, so it's kind of early to talk about the end of the generation. That's certainly something we would not do. That's not the way the system is designed. It's designed for flexibility. But let's get the system out there first.

Its like someone from EA is leering at him off camera, when the hell will Microsoft give up trying to be the bad guy?

[Carnby]

Mother fucker :/ The PS4 is region free for god sakes! I think Microsoft just doesnt like Japan, and theyre cutting them off.

http://kotaku.com/microsoft-cant-tel...free-513494440

Also, these videos are hilarious!

that was great. I'm sharing this with GAF. Thanks.

[The 1 2 P]

They are making a system that is more comparable to a PC than a console, and they're making it for(ie. marketing it towards) console gamers.

I'm pretty sure I said that same thing multiple times already. As for how they market it, thats up to them. But I will point out that many people who play console games also play PC games so it's a bit easier for them to understand than the casual gamer. But until they further clarify things everyone(core and casual gamers alike) will be a bit confused.

They are only "free" if you have the subscription. Normal Xbox Live members do not get them, ie. they have to pay for Gold membership if they want them. This is not flawed logic. Sure, they are bonuses, but they are not truly for free. You have to pay for the service through which you get them. You don't get them unless you are paying Microsoft money. How is that free? The same with your hypothetical example there. You don't get those PPVs without handing money over to the cable company in the first place. Again, it's not free, it's an added bonus, and one that is there only to keep you paying, and get more people subscribing. I'm not saying it's bad practise, getting some added bonus benefits when you're paying for something is great. I'm just saying it's not really free, it just seems like it is to the paying customer.

Although kudos to MS for letting you keep the games. I'm not really for having to pay for PS+ anyway, just to make that clear.

You can call them bonuses but that doesn't change the fact that they are still free and I'll give you two examples why. First, a good majority of the free games are games that you in fact have to pay for. Let's take Fable III for example. It's free to download this month only(and obviously yes you have to be a gold subscriber) but next month it will go back up for $10 or whatever Games On Demand price it normally is. Thats taking something that is normally a paid-for item and making it free. It wasn't advertised as part of my subscription. Looking at my 3 month Gold card in front of me, it mentions playing games with friends, watching movies and video apps and chatting face-to-face with friends. Theres no mention of getting free games. Second, lets take four games I have downloaded as an example. Crysis, Alan Wake: AA, Uno and Fable III again. Two of those games I had to buy with actual currency/Microsoft points. They weren't given to me for free because I'm a paying member of XBL. The other two games were both given to me for free at different random times. And although I got Uno and Fable for free(as I will get Halo 3 and Assassin's Creed II for free next month), they are not free downloads on XBL marketplace. A game like Crash Course is free to download for any gold XBL members at any time. But for alot of other select games, they are not free games. They are paid games that Microsoft may randomly make for free to gold members for a very limited amount of time.

I used the cable example because I wanted another subscription example but you could also take WB dvd movies that come out right before a WB/DC comic movie. Those first run dvds will usually have a free movie ticket to one of the WB/DC comic movies. I suppose you could call it a bonus but that doesn't change the fact that you are getting something for free that normally cost between $8-$12. The price you pay is for the dvd itself(and second run dvs of the same title will no longer include the coupon but still be sold for the same price until they go on sale), much like the price I pay for XBL is primarily for online multiplayer. Ultimately we'll just using different terms to describe the same thing and while the games are a bonus they are still free until Microsoft starts charging for them again.

While you can play on a different XB1 using your account, you can only do so for a single hour, and then your "home" XB1 will have to reauthenticate. That is barely being able to play anywhere else at all. That is a restriction.

The first part of your quote is correct. When playing on XB1 systems that are not your own you can only play offline for an hour. After that hour the console you are playing on simply needs to check online and you can continue playing. It doesn't need to do anything with your home console. So basically, play your own XB1 and you'll need to do an online check in once every 24 hours. Play someone else's XB1 with your account and you will have to do an online check in every hour to continue playing offline. It's simply a more annoying check in process than the one you use while playing at home.

And upgrading your computer(or buying a brand new one), compare it to switching from the Xbox 360 to the Xbox One. You get a brand new gaming machine. But you're no longer able to play the Xbox 360 games on your XB1. Although some 360 games will be available on the Live Marketplace, but then you'd have to buy them a second time. The same goes for the PS4.

True but I think we've all been well aware that neither the XB1 or PS4 would be backwards compatible this gen. It sucks but it just means I'm going to keep my 360 and PS3 hooked up.

It is also used to check on what machine you're playing. As I mentioned above, and as several others probably have mentioned as well, you are only allowed to play for a single hour if you're not playing on that one console to which your account is connected. That is no longer just checking whether you own the game or not, it is restricting how you enjoy playing. For example, I often get together with friends and play for hours at a time. Quite often the game does not belong in the home we're at, but we can still play it for as long as we like. With XB1, we'd only be able to play for a single hour, before I'd have to get home and make sure my XB1 gets reauthenticated.

I already covered that above but once again you are preaching to the choir. I don't like any of the XB1's restrictions but two of them(online connection and Kinect) I could live with. The used game restrictions is the one that negatively affects me the most.

Anyway, I hope you see my points by now. If not, then I don't see how else I can make you understand them. In any case, this will be my last post in reply to you on these matters because I'm simply not cut out for long discussions - it's simply a bit taxing on me. Cheers!

Yup I understood your points and appreciated both your point of view and insight. Cheers mate