Disaster with Xbox One OS and Xbox Live this close to launch ??

[parallaxscroll]

http://doddscientifics.com/2013/10/2...proach-launch/

Xbox One OS and Xbox Live issues bouncing about as we approach launch
Posted on October 28, 2013 by pete dodd

EDIT: I wrote this entire thing on GAF but never got the go ahead from the mods to post it so I moved it over here. There are formatting (as in HTML/ETC) errors because of that . The guys’ I talked to also made errors… we talked through means which require shortening of words. I will own my mistakes… but don’t hold it against the people quoted that are incorrect – it’s how we talked. I could fix it now but I feel like editing this would be dishonest so I’m keeping it as is and just leaving this up here.

Ok, first off: the origin of the rumor. I was contacted by someone claiming to be a dev. He told me a bunch of info. I had no idea if it was true or not. I know a lot of people really hate me currently so I was very wary that I was being trolled by a well-informed person. I was looking for other sources for hours. Nothing. And then I got partial verification from another dev (not that he/she disagreed with part, but only knew part and said it was 100% correct) and then at once I got verification by two people who have never wronged me. So this isn’t flimsy but I’m still filing it under rumor because, well, it is. But it isn’t.

I’m putting it all out on the line here. I enjoy breaking leaks but if this is wrong I’m fucked. I know this. This is how much I trust the people who have verified (and I hope for a CBoaT appearance).

The short story is that Xbox Live and the OS, especially in functions that involve XBL, are a complete fucking mess. One source says we aren’t talking weeks until it works correctly but “months.” Things like parties dropping people when moving from one thing to another. Connectivity issues. Missed invites. Friend requests not working, etc.

He then said “If all you are doing is running a game and that’s the only app things are fine.”

So why do think things are going wrong?

“The system OS and network integration was written by a group of people who do not play games. They don’t understand why things were set up in the ways they were designed by J Allard back in ’05.”

So… what changed?

“Let me get into some technical detail regarding it – on 360, the OS handles all of the party and chat functionality. All you do is hook up the XBL VOiP OS API into your game, and it does most of the work for you. With it results in is a shared experience across multiple entertainment. If you’re watching movies or playing games, you can do it together. However, this system is entirely different on Xbox One. So, lets say me, you, and Thuway have xbox one’s that are online. We are signed in our profiles. Sitting at the home screen, we are considered to be in a “Xbox Party” on the server. There are no more ‘party leaders’. With that said if any one of us decide to start a game, the party is shifted over to that game’s party system. Each game now has their custom written VOIP.” (Pete note: shoutout to thuway!)

“In essence, it is almost EXACTLY how it was on the PS3, and it is in those API “handshakes” that is breaking the online experience.”

I asked if could be fixed soon. He said that anything is possible and Microsoft is obviously working on it but he thinks it will be months, not weeks. Getting online launch games certified is taking so long that it’s pushing games after launch back.

Talking to a different developer he says: “Yeah, getting anything online to work was a pain for months, barely worked at the very end of last month. Adding friends, sending game invites or even achievements’ toasts could be a nightmare. I don’t know that much outside of “my” project, but from what I saw in others, online was always a problem. No idea if this will still be an issue at launch though, I think it would be too much, but it looks like it won’t be flawless at all.”

As of now the Xbox One OS and XBL (the name for the XBL side of Azure is “Thunderhead”) are having major issues. Maybe it will be fixed in time, maybe it won’t. The obvious question to me was does this have to do with Microsoft reversing the DRM and having to strip it out (Pete note: That would partially make it my fault and I wouldn’t like that at all)?

“This was happening either way. This was built into the OS long ago. The DRM-removal clogged their pipelines somewhat, but this blockage was always there. It’s just simply a way they setup the VOIP API and how it would be handled. It was an oversight, not just voip, all of parties and network connectivity really.”

Ok, anything else?

“By the way, do not be surprised at the reaction you get from MS over this.”

Yeah, I know.

From what I've been reading, PS4's OS and PSN will have some problems as well, but most likely not on the same level as what Microsoft is facing with Xbox One.

Provided things aren't terrible on the other side, I'm looking at getting a PS4 within a couple of months but don't plan to get XB1 until a year has past--Hopefully by then XB1's problems will be sorted out.

[Daltone]

So, Self Important Man on the Internet says that Mystery Developers say that Microsoft have made a total hash of the Xbox One OS / Internet functionality?

There are three ways to approach this story:

(1) No truth - all is well for Microsoft, this has come from nowhere.
(2) Some truth - There are issues but it is not the end of the world
(3) Totally true - Armageddon! Delays! Floods!

(3) seems a little bit too exciting. (1) seems unlikely given that this is a major hardware / software launch. I am going with (2). Microsoft will have some issues with this and some that don't even relate to this article. They will be fixed. Armageddon isn't on the way quite yet.

Saying that, I'm not in a hurry to buy one.

[parallaxscroll]

I think there will probably be some significant problems until Jan/Feb. Nothing so huge that would kill the Xbone by itself, but will add to its long list of troubles / bad perception.

[Jorpho]

Has it ever been remotely sensible to buy a console at launch?

[Guyra]

Not a single thing to back up the rumour. But there is a certain amount of plausibility to the story.

I'm pretty much with Daltone on this one. There will probably be some minor problems at launch, but nothing that will be "make or break" for the system.

[Andreas]

A friend who works in the game development told me that it is actually "pain in the ass" to develop for xbox one. But he couldn't tell me any details about the problems.

I try to translate to quote... "The xboxone is like a beautiful old racing motorcycle. It may look like something from, but it has so much power and it would be a great pleasure to drive it. But this motorcycle has a big problem, the carburetor don't work proper. May be it beautiful, may be it has power... you will never know.

[Tanooki]

I'd kind of in agreement, it sounds like a middling between option 2 and 3 from the choices given a few posts ago. Had MS not been such complete and total bastards with how they launched the 360 early and all those problems, then really never truly fixing the issue and doing soft long warranties, I tend to think they're more interested in making a date instead of making it right. They got a history of it, much like until PS3 Sony had a habit of making turd hardware that didn't last long either and just died from regular use over time. I've heard the story of the system being harder to code for, but that shouldn't be much of an issue because when you have fanboy developers and sympathizers in the industry willing to do what it takes to be right, they'll go right on ahead and suck it up. If MS were in the position Nintendo got shoehorned into years ago though and it was a bitch to code for I could see people around the DRM debacle, other issues and this if it is really on the nose, causing them to get raked for it. If anything it'll be another log on the fire of it having a rocky start, rockier in going forward than the PS4 will have, and it will be something huge 360 early adopter types probably won't care about, but it will cause more rational normal people to wait and see.

[kupomogli]

Has it ever been remotely sensible to buy a console at launch?

Nice video. Favorited.

[parallaxscroll]

Things still sounding pretty grim...

[Daltone]

Who are these people?

[parallaxscroll]

Here's the huge NeoGAF thread which is now closed: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=705280

And here's the newer thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=705667

Also related: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=705712

I'm surprised GAF hasn't crashed yet.

[JakeM]

Wasnt going to buy it anyway, and I really dont have the desire to ever buy it new.

[Gameguy]

It will still sell just fine. The 360 still sold well even when the systems sell-destructed within a few months from normal use.

[Andreas]

It will still sell just fine. The 360 still sold well even when the systems sell-destructed within a few months from normal use.

Word!

The PS3 still sold well even when sony started to cut off dozens of features and it still sold well after the psn hack.

The most people out there who are buying video games don't even now what an API is and if they hear that word, they think about a graphic card

[Ed Oscuro]

The part about Microsoft having to spend (waste) a lot of time clearing out the DRM systems makes sense and I could absolutely see that taking up a fair amount of development time. On the other hand it's not clear that these other problems should have been occurring even as far back as the DRM volte-face.

Maybe getting rid of party leaders (I really don't know how that works on the 360, since I just single player game on that system) was intentional and meant to be a good thing. I could definitely see how it screwed up though.

I don't see what the point is of forcing each game to write its own VOIP routine. If bandwidth is going to change from game to game, just offer different implementations or settings in the OS, have them hook into that, done. That one sounds pretty unbelievable to me, but things like this have happened before...

[BlastProcessing402]

The short story is that Xbox Live and the OS, especially in functions that involve XBL, are a complete fucking mess. One source says we aren’t talking weeks until it works correctly but “months.”

Did Obama design the system or something?

Has it ever been remotely sensible to buy a console at launch?

I had no regrets doing so with Genesis or SNES. But that was then, this is now.

[Nz17]

Has it ever been remotely sensible to buy a console at launch?

Not if you want Mega Man Legends 3. I'm still burnt from that one - I bought a 3DS at launch just for it. What I should have done is wait until the game was close to being released in North America before buying a 3DS. That way when the cancellation was announced it still would have burned, but it would have been much more tolerable than having an expensive ($250) console which I otherwise didn't have a strong interest in owning.

As for the new consoles launching in November, I don't think the people with them in their homes should be called owners or early adopters - these days it's more like renters and beta testers. After all, hundreds of dollars will be paid to get hardware with missing or buggy functionality at launch, and anything internal to the console can be remotely disabled or altered at a whim over the Internet these days.

[Jorpho]

What I should have done is wait until the game was close to being released in North America before buying a 3DS.

Ayoye! What you do is wait until AFTER THE GAME IS RELEASED and reviewers have looked at it and determined it to be not a buggy piece of crap!

[Nz17]

Ayoye! What you do is wait until AFTER THE GAME IS RELEASED and reviewers have looked at it and determined it to be not a buggy piece of crap!

With MML3, I couldn't wait that long: I would have to have it at launch.

[WCP]

Well, I've been an early adopter since buying the Super Nintendo at launch in late August of 1991. I bought the Playstation, PS2 and PS3 on launch day. I got Xbox and Xbox 360 on launch day. All 5 of those launches have been entertaining in one way or another. PS3 was probably the weakest of the bunch. Resistance was the only good game. (I imported the Japanese version of Motorstorm in Dec 2006, so it wasn't too bad for me). The PS2 was also pretty lame just a couple of good games at launch (Madden, Smugglers Run and SSX). The original Playstation had an amazing launch imo, if you consider all the games that came before Xmas 95. Wipeout, Loaded, Destruction Derby, Doom, Twisted Metal, NFL GameDay. The original Xbox had a pretty good launch. Halo and Project Gotham Racing. Xbox 360 had Call of Duty 2, NFS: Most Wanted (the original one), NBA 2K6, Condemned and Kameo.


Anyways, sorry for the rant, but basically it's in my nature to buy these things, so I'm going to have to get one of each. If they are totally borked, I'll know about it in a couple of weeks.