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Thread: Does a larger library really equate to better games?

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    Default Does a larger library really equate to better games?

    There are so many factors than can define what makes a console particularly great to someone, that I don't know if a larger library can equate to quality for a person who owns said console. I always feel this way about some of the more mainstream consoles. I will take suggestions from articles listing overrated/underrated games as well as browse the entire GameFAQs database on certain days when I have the free time to become acquainted with what it has to offer. This rings true to me especially in the case of DS and PS2. A large portion of the library is dedicated to genres (like kiddie games or JRPGs) that don't appeal to me much at all. It seems to be a 'jack-of-all-trades, master of none' type scenario where they made just enough to appear that they cater to all, but at the same time do not really excel at any one genre, or in my case, not enough in the ones I like in particular. I do not want to knock people's taste who enjoy the stronger points in focus on these consoles, but that I am a firm believer in quality-over-quantity and understand where my interests lie. Please share any similar experiences you have been through regarding this.

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    It's not a rule. Just check the Nintendo Wii library, it is full of crap and should have something close to 1,200 games. The Dreamcast Library has much more quality in just about 250 games.
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    In a broad sense, a larger library "could" imply better games. The better the system sells, the more games that will be made available for it, the better chance of either AAA quality games, or games that cover lots of genres will make it out. With those larger numbers also comes higher number of games that aren't good, have a very specific niche market and or are just general crap that pretty much gets made for every system.

    The bigger question is, what do you consider a large library? The Dreamcast had just under 250 games. Is that a large library? The N64 somewhere in that realm as well. Gamecube's 550ish titles too large yet? What about the NES with those 750ish games it's got? Large enough yet? The PlayStation has almost 1300. That's large isn't it? But wait, the PS2 has almost 2k. That's large. The DS has somewhere in the range of 1500-1800 games. That's large. Those modern systems have lots of games too. Wii, PS3 and 360 all have in the range of 1k games.

    The NGPC has 32 (US released) games for it. You'll be hard pressed to find a bad game among the lot, even the gambling/slots games. But those may not float your boat. The Adventure vision has what, 5 games? All of them suck.

    What it comes down to isn't the size of the library but if there are games you like on the system at all. I can find PLENTY of games I like for the PlayStation. Mainstream titles, niche titles are plentiful to me. Same with the DS. Hell I've got almost 700 DS titles and while not all of those are good (far from it), there are plenty of them that are. Inventive games, good games are plentiful. Same with PS2 and I've got 450+ there.

    Plenty of crap out there, but who cares. So say there are 5 PS2 games you like, out of 1800. That right there can be enough to own a system. Maybe you don't value that enough to buy the system at launch (when it's at it's most expensive), but maybe 5 years down the line, when the system can be had new for $100, or you find a deal on a used one. That right there could be the sweet spot.

    ONE game was enough for me to buy both a PSP AND a Vita. Why? I love a franchise, it got games for it on those system that were new, so it was bought. Did I eventually find additional games I'd like on top of that? Yup. Was it ever a worry that I wouldn't, or that there wouldn't be enough? Nope.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PapaStu View Post
    In a broad sense, a larger library "could" imply better games. The better the system sells, the more games that will be made available for it, the better chance of either AAA quality games, or games that cover lots of genres will make it out. With those larger numbers also comes higher number of games that aren't good, have a very specific niche market and or are just general crap that pretty much gets made for every system.

    The bigger question is, what do you consider a large library? The Dreamcast had just under 250 games. Is that a large library? The N64 somewhere in that realm as well. Gamecube's 550ish titles too large yet? What about the NES with those 750ish games it's got? Large enough yet? The PlayStation has almost 1300. That's large isn't it? But wait, the PS2 has almost 2k. That's large. The DS has somewhere in the range of 1500-1800 games. That's large. Those modern systems have lots of games too. Wii, PS3 and 360 all have in the range of 1k games.

    The NGPC has 32 (US released) games for it. You'll be hard pressed to find a bad game among the lot, even the gambling/slots games. But those may not float your boat. The Adventure vision has what, 5 games? All of them suck.

    What it comes down to isn't the size of the library but if there are games you like on the system at all. I can find PLENTY of games I like for the PlayStation. Mainstream titles, niche titles are plentiful to me. Same with the DS. Hell I've got almost 700 DS titles and while not all of those are good (far from it), there are plenty of them that are. Inventive games, good games are plentiful. Same with PS2 and I've got 450+ there.

    Plenty of crap out there, but who cares. So say there are 5 PS2 games you like, out of 1800. That right there can be enough to own a system. Maybe you don't value that enough to buy the system at launch (when it's at it's most expensive), but maybe 5 years down the line, when the system can be had new for $100, or you find a deal on a used one. That right there could be the sweet spot.

    ONE game was enough for me to buy both a PSP AND a Vita. Why? I love a franchise, it got games for it on those system that were new, so it was bought. Did I eventually find additional games I'd like on top of that? Yup. Was it ever a worry that I wouldn't, or that there wouldn't be enough? Nope.
    I agree with your point that what matters is if there are games that make the console worth keeping, though for me it has to be a fairly reasonable amount, at east 5 to 10 because I could use the money to get a multitude of games that are just as good if not better by selling the lesser one. That is, unless those few games are REALLY good. I think we agree though that quantity is not quality. PS1 had more games I liked than PS2. But then again, going back to the beginning, we only hold it in a more critical lens if there is more crap because we don't imagine what it would be like if the system had flopped and only had as many games as say, NGPC. Then size wouldn't matter.

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    I think that most people are only going to have 5 or 10 favorites on any platform, regardless of the size of the library. If you're into niche areas, a bigger library often means more variety which means you're more likely to find the stuff you like.

    People who say things like "vita has no games" are generally crying that the stuff THEY like hasn't appeared on the system.

    For me, the Dreamcast or Saturn are more fun than Playstation or PS2 because that's where all the Sega games are.

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    The larger library will usually have more games that are better, but if you were to go by a ratio of good to bad the smaller libraries probably have a better ratio of good games.

    While I own 86 PSP games compared to 72 DS games, and probably games I'd like or I do like for both systems that I don't own, the DS has more of a potential to pass the PSP than the PSP has in retaining its 14 game lead. That's not for sure though. There are some games that were never released in the west for both consoles that I was interested in, more for the PSP, only imported titles that weren't text heavy.

    The PS3 and 360 also win over the Wii, while I think the market leader in every other gen has more quality games than the competition.
    Everything in the above post is opinion unless stated otherwise.

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    Larger library doesn't mean better games, but it does mean a better chance at finding better games I'd think just by the odds of it. Look at the PS1 and the 1000 some games it has. I wouldn't even say 10% of the library is good let alone excellent. Then take a look at the N64 with its just under 300 games and I could find 30 games very worth having on there taking it just a hair or so over the 10% mark. Sometimes quality wins over quantity, but sometimes quantity can get you enough quality too due to mass releases.

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    It's not the size of the library; it's the popularity of the system. Everyone and their brother want to make fast cash on the biggest user base. This will mean those who care only on the bottom line and not actual dev time (see: Data Design on Wii and 3DO on PSX) will churn out garbage to go for the fast buck, while you have other companies spending time to justify the $60 price tag (see Konami, Capcom, Sony, etc).

    If you remove the truly fringe stuff (Game.com, Laseractive, etc) I'd be willing to bet the rest of the consoles, regardless of library size will have an average of at least 10% true 'shit' games, but we have to have a huge * to that statement. When I mean shit - I mean there is a clear, absolute defining nature that the game was shovelware. Genre games, like the Imagine Series can't be considered as such because they sold; I've been in gaming retail 12 years - we may not be the focus of the Imagine games, but they sold like hotcakes, if they didn't, we wouldn't have 80 of them.

    I'd be willing to bet that most systems have about 30% true system selling, AAA titles, and the remaining 60% are you average, good to great games, but not the ones you'd track down a system for to play again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanooki View Post
    Look at the PS1 and the 1000 some games it has. I wouldn't even say 10% of the library is good let alone excellent.
    I dont know about that Tanook, PS1 has tons excellent games. Some of the most popular Konami, Capcom, Squaresoft games were released on the ps1.
    While N64 is far from my favorite system I think its worth owning even for just a handful of games like mischief makers and f-zero.
    Any system with a large amount of games released for it is bound to have alot of crap, especially when you look back on it 10-25 years after its initial release.
    Everybody says that the wii has tons of crap, and its true. It does have many titles that are great games though, and considering how cheap wii stuff is right now its worth it to pick up a few games.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanooki View Post
    Larger library doesn't mean better games,
    No one who has posted has stated this, even the op. However one thing I'll debate about the comment I'm quoting. A larger library doesn't necessarily have better games, as in the best games, but having a larger library means that it has more chances.

    Also, while the PSX had a lot of crap titles, it also had a lot of great games. One thing people like to debate when talking about the RPGs because people like me will praise the PSX as the RPG king, which it is, is that the system might have the most RPGs, but it doesn't mean all or most of them are good. With RPGs on the PSX, that's the area where the system shined the most and there are very few RPGs on the system that aren't good. I actually made this list a long time ago, RPGs on the SNES and PSX that were localized and released in the west to show someone a comparison of how many games each system included, and even split the list between non Squaresoft titles and Squaresoft titles. I included Terranigma even though it wasn't released in the US, and I left off games on both consoles that I didn't consider RPGs. although left off games that I didn't consider RPGs. I may have missed some RPGs as well. Anyways, while the PSX has many more RPGs than the SNES, it also has a much higher ratio of quality as well.

    Games like Alundra, Illusion of Gaia, aren't included. I also didn't include Castlevania Symphony of the Night, Threads of Fate, and Brave Fencer Musashi, seeing those as more of action platformers with RPG elements that have less of an influence than Terranigma which I included. Benefited the SNES far mroe as well. Also included the limited western RPG line up as well. Anyways, listed everything seperate as Final Fantasy Chronicles isn't a game, it's a collection of two games. There are only eight ports on the PSX list though, three of which were never released in the US to begin with.

    Arc the Lad
    Arc the Lad 2
    Arc Arena
    Arc the Lad 3
    Azure Dreams
    Beyond the Beyond
    Breath of Fire 3
    Breath of Fire 4
    Brigandine
    Darkstone
    Diablo
    Digimon World
    Digimon World 2
    Digimon World 3
    Dragon Seeds
    Dragon Warrior 7
    Eternal Eyes
    Grandia
    Guardian's Crusade
    Hoshigami
    Kartia
    King's Field
    King's Field 2
    Koudelka
    Legend of Dragoon
    Legend of Legaia
    Lunar
    Lunar 2
    Monster Rancher
    Monster Rancher 2
    Monster Seed
    Ogre Battle
    Persona 2 Eternal Punishment
    Revelations Persona
    Rhapsody(or Chrapsody
    Saiyuki Journey West
    Shadow Madness
    Shadow Tower
    Star Ocean the Second Story
    Suikoden
    Suikoden 2
    Tactics Ogre
    Tales of Destiny
    Tales of Eternia
    Thousands Arms
    Torneko the Last Hope
    Valkyrie Profile
    Vandal Hearts
    Vandal Hearts 2
    Vanguard Bandits
    Wild ARMs
    Wild ARMs 2

    52 games.

    Chocobo's Dungeon 2
    Ehrgeiz(Forsaken Dungeon)
    Final Fantasy
    Final Fantasy 2
    Final Fantasy 4
    Final Fantasy 5
    Final Fantasy 6
    Final Fantasy 7
    Final Fantasy 8
    Final Fantasy 9
    Final Fantasy Tactics
    Chrono Trigger
    Chrono Cross
    Front Mission 3
    Parasite Eve
    SaGa Frontier
    SaGa Frontier 2
    Vagrant Story
    Xenogears

    19 games.

    SNES titles. Again titles that I wouldn't consider as RPGs won't be listed.

    7th Saga
    Brain Lord
    Brandish
    Breath of Fire
    Breath of Fire 2
    Dragon View
    Drakkhen
    Dungeon Master
    Earthbound
    Eye of the Beholder
    Inindo
    Lufia
    Lufia 2
    Might and Magic 2
    Magic and Magic 3 (SNES version is slow, play PC version)
    Ogre Battle
    Paladin's Quest
    Robotrek
    Shadowrun
    Super Ninja Boy
    Tecmo Secret of the Stars
    Terranigma
    Ultima the False Prophet
    Wizardry 5
    Ys3

    25 games.

    Chrono Trigger
    Final Fantasy 4
    Final Fantasy 6
    Final Fantasy Mystic Quest
    Secret of Evermore
    Secret of Mana
    Super Mario RPG

    7 games.

    *edit*

    So having more games doesn't guarantee better games, but there's a lot more chances, and sometimes, like RPGs on the PSX, most of the games might actually be good games.
    Last edited by kupomogli; 05-18-2014 at 03:51 AM.
    Everything in the above post is opinion unless stated otherwise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kupomogli View Post
    Etc., etc.
    In some ways I prefer the SNES RPGs for the fact that they rely less on fmvs, lengthy cinematics and drawn out battle animations, etc. that dominated the PSX ones. The PS1 era was good but sometimes people prefer a certain era more for a particular genre, like you see with Doom/Wolfenstein vs. CoD/Halo fans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Manhattan Sports Club View Post
    In some ways I prefer the SNES RPGs for the fact that they rely less on fmvs, lengthy cinematics and drawn out battle animations, etc. that dominated the PSX ones. The PS1 era was good but sometimes people prefer a certain era more for a particular genre, like you see with Doom/Wolfenstein vs. CoD/Halo fans.
    You described most Squaresoft titles on the PSX. In terms of storyline, most of the non Squaresoft games had about as much story(FMV combined) as FF4-6, Chrono Trigger, or Capcom's Breath of Fire games. Some had more, Dragon Warrior 7 and Star Ocean the Second Story, others had less, Diablo, Brigandine, Azure Dreams, Chocobo Dungeon, Torneko the Last Hope, Monster Rancher, Dragon Seeds, King's Field, and Shadow Tower.
    Everything in the above post is opinion unless stated otherwise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kupomogli View Post
    You described most Squaresoft titles on the PSX. In terms of storyline, most of the non Squaresoft games had about as much story(FMV combined) as FF4-6, Chrono Trigger, or Capcom's Breath of Fire games. Some had more, Dragon Warrior 7 and Star Ocean the Second Story, others had less, Diablo, Brigandine, Azure Dreams, Chocobo Dungeon, Torneko the Last Hope, Monster Rancher, Dragon Seeds, King's Field, and Shadow Tower.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PapaStu View Post
    Hell I've got almost 700 DS titles and while not all of those are good (far from it), there are plenty of them that are.
    I can't find 70 DS games I would ever want, let alone 700.

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    What's better, a system with 500 games where 90% are crap, a system with 50 titles where half are crap, or a system with only a handful of games where one or two are crap?

    I guess it would depend on the individual non-crap titles, and just how good they really are. In general though I'd like the one with the most good games, regardless of how many pieces of crap also happen to be on the system.

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    The definition of what is good is never clear either. Some people like a lot of games that other people think suck and vice versa. You find yourself hating a game that tons of people love or loving a game that tons of people hate.
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    Not as extreme as Rickstilwell though.[/quote]


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanooki View Post
    Larger library doesn't mean better games, but it does mean a better chance at finding better games I'd think just by the odds of it. Look at the PS1 and the 1000 some games it has. I wouldn't even say 10% of the library is good let alone excellent. Then take a look at the N64 with its just under 300 games and I could find 30 games very worth having on there taking it just a hair or so over the 10% mark. Sometimes quality wins over quantity, but sometimes quantity can get you enough quality too due to mass releases.

    I'm pretty sure I can find over 100 great games on the Playstation and even more if you count every game within a compilation. I'd be hard pressed to find over 20 great games on the N64 and maybe another dozen or so that are worth having. I'd say the Gamecube has a better selection of great games than the N64.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlastProcessing402 View Post
    What's better, a system with 500 games where 90% are crap, a system with 50 titles where half are crap, or a system with only a handful of games where one or two are crap?

    I guess it would depend on the individual non-crap titles, and just how good they really are. In general though I'd like the one with the most good games, regardless of how many pieces of crap also happen to be on the system.
    Obviously a system with 500 games with 90% are crap. That system has 50 good games, the second one would have 25 good games, and the last one, I dunno, 5? To me, I'd be much happier with a system that had 50 quality titles than one with 25, and with one with 25 than one with 5, given the quality of quality games being (roughly) the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamevet View Post
    I'm pretty sure I can find over 100 great games on the Playstation and even more if you count every game within a compilation. I'd be hard pressed to find over 20 great games on the N64 and maybe another dozen or so that are worth having. I'd say the Gamecube has a better selection of great games than the N64.
    N64 definitely has more than 25 games worth owning, depending on tastes, of course. But the dilemma is a false one. 100 great games on the PS1 is way, way better than 25 great games on the N64. Ratios mean shit. You're far more likely to get less enjoyment out of 30 games than 100 games.
    Last edited by o.pwuaioc; 05-30-2014 at 01:40 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by o.pwuaioc View Post
    I can't find 70 DS games I would ever want, let alone 700.

    Then you're not trying hard enough!

    Seriously, almost all the Nintendo published titles are great, many of the mainline Konami, Square and Capcom titles as well. A bunch of good smaller franchises also out there by smaller publishers are also worth getting (Cooking Mama springs to mind), not even factoring in the likes of Atlus and NIS or the other J-RPG publishers.
    Because it makes no attempt to be great, it is therefore extremely great.
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