Thunder Spirits V.S. Thunder Force III

[8-Bit Archeology]

I found Thunder Spirits at a yard sale and popped it in today.

I am a huge fan of Thunder Force III, and was let down by how it played and sounded.

The wiki said the soundtrack was improved but I noticed the sound wasnt better. The music was fine, but the sounds where lacking big time.

Also it seemed to slow down a lot when the screen was more populated.

What's your opinion about this port?
&
Does anyone have any info on the port, such as Technosoft taking sides with Sega?

Or why they took out the turbo style shooting to destroy thumbs?

[davidbrit2]

Slowdown isn't a big surprise. The Genesis has a significantly faster CPU, as well as DMA capability. The general rule is that Genesis games are smoother and faster, while SNES games look and sound a little nicer.

[Gentlegamer]

Thunder Spirits is a bad port of Thunder Force III, which accounts for the poor SNES optimization and resulting slowdown, the same issue many of EA's sports games had. In modern gaming, the PS3 suffered from this early in its life, as most games were designed for Xbox 360 then ported, resulting in unoptimized performance that made the platform look weaker than it really was.

If you want to see what the SNES can do with a shooter, look at Space Megaforce.

[genesisguy]

Genesis games are always a little smoother. Especially in the quick paced shoot em' up genre.
THe NHL EA games are another example. Play NHL '94 on both systems back to back. The SNES is actually missing some of the animation frames and appears clunkier in it's actual game play.

Sound is debatable.

[WCP]

THe NHL EA games are another example. Play NHL '94 on both systems back to back. The SNES is actually missing some of the animation frames and appears clunkier in it's actual game play.

SNES always seemed to get the short end of the stick when it came to sports games. I don't think any of the Madden Football games on SNES are any good, and you'd think with the built-in scaling and rotation, that they would be fantastic.

The only sports games that work really good on SNES is the NBA Live series. I always felt like NBA Live '95 on SNES is pretty freaking amazing. The sound is amazing, the color is amazing, and the playability is very good. I also thought that the unique 3D perspective of NCAA Basketball was really cool upon release, although the game doesn't stand the test of time very well. NBA Live still holds up pretty well even today.

[SparTonberry]

I also thought that the unique 3D perspective of NCAA Basketball was really cool upon release, although the game doesn't stand the test of time very well. NBA Live still holds up pretty well even today.

I only played its hockey counterpart NHL Stanley Cup briefly. I couldn't tell what was going on. :P

[ccovell]

Slowdown isn't a big surprise. The Genesis has a significantly faster CPU, as well as DMA capability.

The SNES also has DMA, several kinds of it, in fact.

[davidbrit2]

The SNES also has DMA, several kinds of it, in fact.

Ah, you're right. Sounds like the Genesis may have had a bit higher DMA throughput, though.

[8-Bit Archeology]

I know a decent amount about games. But not so much about the tech of the consoles. So I need to ask a dumb question. Whats DMA, and how is the SNES DMA different from the Sega DMA?

I want to learn. O.o

[ccovell]

Good learning material here:

http://wiki.superfamicom.org/snes/show/DMA+%26+HDMA

DMA, or "direct memory access" is found in a number of computer systems, not just the Super Nintendo. It’s basically a way for a peripheral or coprocessor to read data directly from memory, instead of requiring the main CPU to do a number of reads and writes. This is typically faster, if only because it lets the system skip the opcode fetch-and-decode. In the SNES, the CPU is paused during DMA since the address busses are in use for the transfer.


HDMA is similar in concept, though rather different in execution: instead of transferring a block of memory all at once, it transfers a few bytes during the H-Blank period of each scanline. This is extremely helpful, as most PPU registers may only be changed during a frame (at least without glitching) during this narrow window.


The SNES has 8 channels (numbered 0-7) that can be used for either DMA or HDMA

Also: http://trixter.oldskool.org/2008/12/...rocessing-101/

Multiple DMA VRAM copies during vblank were how games did scrolling and animation. It was even common on the NES: games would transfer sprite position data via DMA during vblank. The Master System, Genesis, and SNES used DMA to upload new frames of animation to VRAM, update tilemaps, and sprite position data.

Both Snes and Genesis have DMAs but the Genesis has better DMA than the Snes has.

1) Snes’s DMA is 2.68 Mbps, whereas Genesis’s DMA is 3.35 Mbps

2) Snes can’t DMA during active display at all, whereas Genesis can, only at a slower pace.

(Point #2 directly above is not exactly correct, as HDMA is a type of DMA for during active display, and the S-PPU contains writeable registers that can point to CPU RAM (thus making ROM-to-RAM and RAM-to-RAM DMA possible mid-screen on the SNES, but anyway...))

[Tanooki]

DMA is a direct memory access if I remember right. Basically tasks are sent through the machine and the SNES has both a 24bit and an 8bit BUS. Normally you can only send one task at a time to be processed, but with the DMA you can do more which allows for things to run faster/more efficiently than they would otherwise.

[Steven]

I found Thunder Spirits at a yard sale and popped it in today.

I am a huge fan of Thunder Force III, and was let down by how it played and sounded.

The wiki said the soundtrack was improved but I noticed the sound wasnt better. The music was fine, but the sounds where lacking big time.

Also it seemed to slow down a lot when the screen was more populated.

What's your opinion about this port?
&
Does anyone have any info on the port, such as Technosoft taking sides with Sega?

Or why they took out the turbo style shooting to destroy thumbs?

Thunder Force III >>> Thunder Spirits. It's not even close. Still, I enjoyed Thunder Spirits after readjusting my expectations. But it was clear there was a lack of care and polish that went into it. It should have been awesome, but was rather disappointing (though far from worthless)

As for turbo, there is, thankfully, an option to do that, but you need to make a small input first:



It does help out the enjoyment of the game tremendously, unless one prefers button mashing. Personally, I never did.

Wrote a review of it several years back: http://www.rvgfanatic.com/7401/1532120.html

Should have been the ultimate TF game. Sadly, it wasn't. Oh well, you win some, you lose some!