Console Wars SNES vs. Sega Genesis

[bb_hood]

Thank God for emulation, eh?

And flash carts

[celerystalker]

Yeah, TG16 stuff is all but non-existent in the wild, but I disagree with the lack of quality HuCards. Even just domestically, there are lots of great HuCards... Neutopia I & II, Ninja Spirit, the Bonk games, Air Zonk, the Star Soldiers, Sinistron, Blazing Lazers, the Legendary Axes, Dungeon Explorer, and many more. I honestly really feel it stands up really well over all. Yeah, Yo Bro is no Zombies Ate My Neighbors, and Timeball and Drop Off suck really hard, but it skews to average or better for the majority in my book. Cadash, Final Lap Twin, SideArms...

Definitely don't blame people for emulating, though. Prices on that stuff are out of control. Ever since completionists started going after small library systems like Virtual Boy or 32x that were inexpensive forever and then popped off a few years ago when collecting blew up. Neo Geo games costing more than cars, Waterworld hitting triple digits at times, Magical Chase going from about $70 for almost 20 years before jumping into the thousands... It's all crazy. Turbo seems to be one of those that the folks that got their Jaguar CD and Virtual Boy collections finished all jumped on at the same time.

That might be my favorite thing about the Genesis. Yeah, it has its collectors and fanboys, but most of its awesome stuff is so accessible and still cheap even at retail. I can go out any given day and find something at least decent for five bucks or less, so that's neat to me.

[bb_hood]

Yeah, TG16 stuff is all but non-existent in the wild, but I disagree with the lack of quality HuCards. Even just domestically, there are lots of great HuCards... Neutopia I & II, Ninja Spirit, the Bonk games, Air Zonk, the Star Soldiers, Sinistron, Blazing Lazers, the Legendary Axes, Dungeon Explorer, and many more. I honestly really feel it stands up really well over all. Yeah, Yo Bro is no Zombies Ate My Neighbors, and Timeball and Drop Off suck really hard, but it skews to average or better for the majority in my book. Cadash, Final Lap Twin, SideArms...

Yeah it is, but TG16 stuff has almost always been very rare compared to nintendo/snes/genesis. Years ago I scrambled to collect alot of TG16 stuff because i knew how rare the stuff really is. I have a fairly large collection of TG16 stuff and almost everything was bought or traded for online. Maybe its a regional thing but except for maybe 2 TG16 systems with very commons games Ive never found anything at flea markets or on CL locally. I never found that stuff locally, never.


I think there are alot of really good US turbo games, but there should have been way more thats for sure. Many Japanese games could have easily been translated over and would have been well received.
However I always thought Neutopia I & II are.. well just bad games. I was shocked when I played the first one because I read it was one of the best TG16 games but I found it to be a bland zelda rip-off.

Anyway, off the top of my head here are my top 10 US Genesis games:
Top 10 Genesis:
10. Gauntlet IV
9. Contra Hard Corps
8. Rocket Knight
7. Uncharted Waters II New Horizons
6. Lightening Force
5. Alisia Dragoon
4. Sonic T. Hedgehog 2
3. Shining Force II
2. Gunstar Heroes
1. Dynamite Headdy

I strongly believe Dynamite/Gunstar/Shining II are the three best games released in the US, hands down. Hard to choose between Dynamite and Gunstar as the best.

[celerystalker]

Yeah it is, but TG16 stuff has almost always been very rare compared to nintendo/snes/genesis. Years ago I scrambled to collect alot of TG16 stuff because i knew how rare the stuff really is. I have a fairly large collection of TG16 stuff and almost everything was bought or traded for online. Maybe its a regional thing but except for maybe 2 TG16 systems with very commons games Ive never found anything at flea markets or on CL locally. I never found that stuff locally, never.


I think there are alot of really good US turbo games, but there should have been way more thats for sure. Many Japanese games could have easily been translated over and would have been well received.
However I always thought Neutopia I & II are.. well just bad games. I was shocked when I played the first one because I read it was one of the best TG16 games but I found it to be a bland zelda rip-off.

TG16 was extremely regional. NEC marketed only in major metropolitan areas, like New York and Chicago, so basically the closer you were to a city with multiple pro sports teams, the more likely you were to see any games or advertising. I bought a bunch in the late '90s and early 2000s at local stores. Even though it's way tougher now, I can still go to local stores and find the common stuff like Keith Courage or China Warrior any given day, so I've managed to put together about 3/4 of the US library entirely offline. I bought a Last Alert, a Moto Roader, and Timeball in the last year from local places. Timeball was not worth the $8, but I was curious...

Neutopia a Zelda ripoff?! That's... that's... really true. However, they were pre-Link to the Past, so there was only one top-down Zelda at the time, so it's a little more forgivable to me, and they play well... but yes, ripoffs don't get more flagrant. If they were made tomorrow, though, they'd be called loving tributes probably. Although I enjoy them, I can't defend their borderline plagiarism, as they don't even really tinker with structure like a Soul Blazer, Lagoon, or Beyond Oasis. They just copy/paste, right down to the number of enemies on each screen staying the same if you don't kill them all like in the first Zelda.

[Edmond Dantes]

Still, we need more games like the first Zelda. The series was never the same after Nintendo started catering to babies with it.

"Oh, expecting people to search for secrets is too hard! Let's put BIG, OBVIOUS CRACKS on any wall that can be bombed! And gamers who complain that they miss stuff in dungeons? Lets make it so you HAVE TO EXPLORE EVERY ROOM or you can't even get to the boss!"

Neutopia might not be better than the original Zelda, but its better than most of the later ones easily.

[Tanooki]

Not going to get into the Neutopia thing, it was average to me at best when I had it. I've got to agree though the bounty of TG stuff was likely proportionate to how damn big your city/town/county was back in that period it existed. I had a pretty healthy library of probably 20 hucards and 30-40 discs. Years ago there was this really awesome retail shop in my old home town area in California, the guy was very nice as an owner, and his prices despite being retail were very very fair (stuff was $5 and up, much stuff was just $5 and for example the 'expensive' game was Dragon Warrior 4 CIB for $50 to give perspective.) Store is still there now but the guy went crazy and got mean, prices stuff like 2-5x over ebay but being his own are monopoly he fleeces US Marines stuck on base bored with nothing to do with his stuff. I won't name the shop he deserves no business. The thing is, that place had every game system you could think of from the NES/SMS forward, even Neo Geo too and plenty of games, systems, versions of systems and some Japanese stuff. Of all the TG stuff I had I bought the Duo online for maybe 100 or so along with the system card 3.X with it. All my HuCards and at least 1/2 the discs I got from his store and the prices were better than buying online in the infancy of ebay and other random online shops. I guess I was lucky but there was so much great stuff. I wish I could remember all I had but it was a fair mix of US cards and US/JP CDs. Some of my favorites were imports like Dracula X, Macross 2036, RayXanber 3(shooter), Panic Bomber and others.

I'd love to have a recapped Duo but the price on that thing not to mention the games I once had I could buy a used car in good shape with it which makes it just sick to even consider it anymore.

[celerystalker]

Still, we need more games like the first Zelda. The series was never the same after Nintendo started catering to babies with it.

"Oh, expecting people to search for secrets is too hard! Let's put BIG, OBVIOUS CRACKS on any wall that can be bombed! And gamers who complain that they miss stuff in dungeons? Lets make it so you HAVE TO EXPLORE EVERY ROOM or you can't even get to the boss!"

Neutopia might not be better than the original Zelda, but its better than most of the later ones easily.

I couldn't agree more. I liked Zelda better when the story was a preface for the game. It just gave you a setting and then put you in control of what mattered-the exploration and action. I don't think the games got better after the NES.

Also, yes, I agree that the cost of so much of this has become prohibitive and unrealistic. I remember feeling like I paid a ton for Sengoku 3 on AES some 11 years ago for $120. Now that auctions are edging in on $2000 for English copies, I'm okay with what I paid, but I can only justify buying a handful of common AES carts now before jumping ship to MVS. I wrestle with it, because that one game could pay for a Neo Geo cabinet and the game with hundreds of dollars left over, but having a Neo Geo AES was something I'd dreamed of as a kid (as hobbies go), and I got the 30 or so games I have when they were waaaay less retarded to buy. Sensibly, selling would be a no-brainer, but respect to my early teen years makes me really enjoy playing that home system that always seemed so out of reach at the time.

I do wish there was a cheaper option for a duo, though. Mine was $300 with a handful of games for a Duo-R, and that seems pretty average to good these days. If/when it eventually craps out, it'll really suck.

[Tanooki]

Probably a when as my understanding was all the Duo's used substandard caps on them that give out and it has become a more and more common occurrence which is why you see more of these people doing re-cap services or selling the as such for a premium as they'll last.

Personally I found between Zelda and the clones, often enough Secret of Mana (SD2) alone (not the others) trump it in that style of play. They really need to make more like that one. Also probably the game with the best soundtrack for the SNES too considering how the composer approached it. The game stands out because he didn't like the Nintendo and other public resources for MIDI samples for the audio and made his entire unique set for the game then set out to make pieces that didn't reek of being game music.

[Edmond Dantes]

Also, yes, I agree that the cost of so much of this has become prohibitive and unrealistic. I remember feeling like I paid a ton for Sengoku 3 on AES some 11 years ago for $120. Now that auctions are edging in on $2000 for English copies, I'm okay with what I paid, but I can only justify buying a handful of common AES carts now before jumping ship to MVS. I wrestle with it, because that one game could pay for a Neo Geo cabinet and the game with hundreds of dollars left over, but having a Neo Geo AES was something I'd dreamed of as a kid (as hobbies go), and I got the 30 or so games I have when they were waaaay less retarded to buy. Sensibly, selling would be a no-brainer, but respect to my early teen years makes me really enjoy playing that home system that always seemed so out of reach at the time.

There are converters that let you run MVS games in an AES. Better than having essentially two of the same console, and both worlds are open to you.

I do wish there was a cheaper option for a duo, though.

Any reason just getting a coregrafx/tg16 and then buying the CD addon (or getting them altogether in a lot) isn't an alternative? It seems to be cheaper, and my PC Engine has proven more durable than my Duo.

[celerystalker]

Yeah, I'm aware of MVS/AES converters, but for what they usually cost, I could get a 2 slot MVS cabinet on craigslist for close to the same, which I'll probably end up doing eventually. I think I'd enjoy having a cabinet anyway, really... I wrestle more with keeping some of these games that I bought long ago at way better prices that now cost a ton, like Saturn games. Back in '99, the most I paid for anything on Saturn was $40 for Panzer Dragoon Saga, because it hadn't all gone bananas yet... Shining Force III was $20, as were Burning Rangers and Dragon Force... Heck, a buddy of mine got Burning Rangers for $2.99 at a Game Crazy, and another friend and I both got loose MUSHA carts for the same. It's a struggle between the part of me that really enjoys having games like that against my pragmatic side seeing dollar signs. Having games makes me happy and I enjoy playing them, but if I did like a lot of folks and changed over to flash carts, emulation, and MAME, I could sell it or a lot of it and pay my house off or let my wife quit working all together, even though at least I've been able to earn enough to let her quit the job she hated and go part time... I dunno. I get older and I enjoy all of this every bit as much as I did when I bought most of it 15+ years ago, but money means different things than it did in my teens and twenties. I've been very fortunate in my life to be in a good situation where I don't have to make that kind of decision financially, but it's hard to ignore the kind of profit margin that's sitting there.

I do have a base TG16 unit as well, and a CD unit alone is a bit cheaper, but by the time I would pay for it and ship it, it's still a good deal to get in at $200, so I'd probably look into a repair for my DUO-R if it breaks down first, as it seems a little cheaper, and would also spare me the $20-$30 on a converter or core grafx for my Japanese HuCards.

Sorry if that's all a little long-winded... I think I let a bit of internal monologue or stream of consciousness out there. I mean, I don't really intend to sell my stuff. It's my favorite hobby... I just also like the idea of being able to do some really nice things for my wife with the kind of money it's all worth now, but I do work hard to give her a happy life and comforts, because she's such a good person. She'd kill me if I got rid of her Fortune Street or Culdcept Saga, though!

[Tanooki]

You know I'm curious what's the current difference? Duo alone $? TG16+CD+System Card 3.X $? It would be interesting to see the difference, and of course I have no idea if the TGCD needs its own wiring and power source, and what about rca jacks as the TG was annoyingly RF only. I know Turbo boosters can get spendy to add that.

[celerystalker]

It's about a $50 difference without the turbo booster. Not a huge savings, but having them separate means only having to replace part of the total. I went the Duo-R route from a local shop where the owner knew I'd wanted one for years and held onto it for me. It wasn't super cheap, but the fact that he held it back for me, not knowing when I'd be in again, was really cool of him. I miss that store... The guy knew I was game for weird crap, so occasionally he'd see me walk through the door, laugh and say, "Ah!" He'd go to his back room and pop out with something odd like Combat Queen or Time Gal/Ninja Hayate and say something along the lines of "Gotcha!" It was fun.

[Tanooki]

I miss that kind of service. I had that in the past with that one place I mentioned I shopped originally where the owner in the last 4~ years has turned into a greedy sadist twat who admittedly rips off boot camp marines to make money because they're trapped there. :\ Before he went amoral he was very friend, heaps of stuff you may never have heard of before, fair prices (not stupid cheap but not ebay or over either), and he was a nice person who would hold onto stuff, take requests if you were good/regular, and even gave out a freebie once in awhile.

[bb_hood]

You know I'm curious what's the current difference? Duo alone $? TG16+CD+System Card 3.X $? It would be interesting to see the difference, and of course I have no idea if the TGCD needs its own wiring and power source, and what about rca jacks as the TG was annoyingly RF only. I know Turbo boosters can get spendy to add that.

The Duos are a much better choice over the TG16+CD system. Regardless of the price difference its worth it to get a duo.
PC engine Super cd rom2 systems are also excellent systems.