HD Retrovision High Definition Super Nintendo & Sega Genesis Component Cables

[y9784]

You have an EDTV, or enhanced definition television. These TVs display everything at 480p, and are just as incompatible with most light guns as HDTVs.

I thought Samsung used EDTV as a marketing term, meaning it can do 480 progressive, (heck, it even does 1080i), but I don't believe everything is 480p. It can't even do 720p, let alone 1080p. Are you saying that there is some sort of internal line doubler that makes all 480i signals display at 480p? That can't be the case as there is a distinct "changeover" (for lack of a better term) to progressive signals. Maybe I don't understand my TV enough. Tell me why you think everything is displayed at 480p

[Leo_A]

Your tv is deinterlacing 480i content.

There isn't a 480p CRT in the World that's compatible with light guns. That's why your tv doesn't work with light guns. It has nothing to do with it being a flat screen.

[y9784]

32x works with model 1, and you can "mod" the PBC to work with the Model 2 by busting off the back plastic.

Model 1 is the better model.

ProTip: using a 32x with either model of Genesis will greatly improve the video out, as it uses its own superior video encoder even for Genesis games.

Even better pro-tip: Check out MN12Bird's great video comparing a stock model Gen 1 with that of a 32X enhanced one. You be the judge on whether the quality is improved

----> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbQuWGb7510

[theclaw]

I thought Samsung used EDTV as a marketing term, meaning it can do 480 progressive, (heck, it even does 1080i), but I don't believe everything is 480p. It can't even do 720p, let alone 1080p. Are you saying that there is some sort of internal line doubler that makes all 480i signals display at 480p? That can't be the case as there is a distinct "changeover" (for lack of a better term) to progressive signals. Maybe I don't understand my TV enough. Tell me why you think everything is displayed at 480p

A set that accepts 480 progressive under any circumstances, is not an SDTV.
At least I've never heard of an SDTV with internal scaler that upon detecting 480p or greater, attempts to down-convert them.

[RP2A03]

I thought Samsung used EDTV as a marketing term, meaning it can do 480 progressive, (heck, it even does 1080i), but I don't believe everything is 480p. It can't even do 720p, let alone 1080p. Are you saying that there is some sort of internal line doubler that makes all 480i signals display at 480p? That can't be the case as there is a distinct "changeover" (for lack of a better term) to progressive signals. Maybe I don't understand my TV enough. Tell me why you think everything is displayed at 480p

I was going to give you the exact specifications of your TV, but they are strangely impossible to find. What I can tell you is that your TV definitely has a line doubler, and unless there is an option for you to disable it there is no way for you to display a 240p/480i image.

[y9784]

I was going to give you the exact specifications of your TV, but they are strangely impossible to find. What I can tell you is that your TV definitely has a line doubler, and unless there is an option for you to disable it there is no way for you to display a 240p/480i image.

I strangely disagree with this notion. I have a PS2 with component cables. When I play a PlayStation 1 game using these cables on my LCD monitor, the game does not display since the output resolution is 240p. The Retrovision cables would not work on it However, the game displays perfectly fine on my Samsung CRT / EDTV / SDTV with the ability to display 480p and 1080i.

So I really have no clue what is going on with this thing. I did find a link to the manual online. Maybe you can make sense of it.

http://www.manualslib.com/manual/145...duct-TSL2795HF

[Leo_A]

I strangely disagree with this notion. I have a PS2 with component cables. When I play a PlayStation 1 game using these cables on my LCD monitor, the game does not display since the output resolution is 240p. The Retrovision cables would not work on it However, the game displays perfectly fine on my Samsung CRT / EDTV / SDTV with the ability to display 480p and 1080i.

You've discovered the issue that many HDTV's, especially during the early years of the technology when it finally became a viable mass market item, were plagued with back then.

It most commonly reared its head with the PS2 and Ico (a 240p PS2 game), and its PS1 backwards compatibility when connected via component cables. Many a scaling chip just wasn't designed with the expectation of ever receiving 240p via component and didn't know how to handle it despite being able to successfully handle that resolution via its other inputs.

So you've correctly deduced that these component cables won't allow you to get a picture from most SuperNes/Genesis games when connected to your LCD to component. But you're incorrectly applying this to your CRT.

Just because you're getting a picture with a 240p signal via component to your 480p CRT, does not mean that it's displaying that 240p signal untouched. He didn't say you wouldn't get a picture, he said it just wouldn't be 240p just as 720p going into a 1080p HDTV is no longer 720p.

With 480p tv's and anything HD, they're all fixed pixel displays (Even ED and HD CRT's) and any non conforming, but compatible resolution, must be adapted to match that native resolution. That means upscaling, deinterlacing, etc.

And 1080i on a EDTV? If you're getting a picture, it's not 1080i. I vaguely recall some EDTV's that were able to downscale a 1080i signal in order for it to still be displayed back around a decade ago. If 1080i works on your set, it's not HD any longer. It's a 480p picture from a downscaled 1080i source.

[Greg2600]

I thought of him and already inquired, but didn't have much luck finding out if it would output a similar RGB signal through the same pins as the SuperNes. He basically told me to do it and find out for myself.

I assume his mod has a chance of working with this component cable though, since his AA ad mentions using a RGB SuperNes cable which seems like it means it's outputting the same sort of information through the same pins on the multi video out port.

How do I tell if my N64 is able to receive this easily? Was bought in 1999 and came with two gamepads (Gray, and a clear purple model). Have another, this time second hand model, of unknown vintage.

The N64 model number will tell you. Or you could open it all the way up and look at the motherboard! This is a good listing of compatible ranges. http://forums.benheck.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=27684

Essentially you need one of the first 3 revisions in the USA. The 04 board works but it's more work to mod. If yours was manufactured after early 1997 it's not compatible. Mine was a V04 purchased in summer 1997 (TRU Gold controller version), so I opted to find an earlier one on ebay pretty cheap.

As for his mod, Yurkie isn't going to guarantee it (rightly so) since he can't be 100% sure. That said, I can't see how it wouldn't work since he's also modding NES's to use the same multi-out and RGB (SCART) cables.

Are you using it with a Framemeister?

[Leo_A]

I'll be hooking it up to a SD Trinitron, at least for now.

An XRGB Mini or equivalent is just a dream at the moment, but it's in my game plan for one of these days and preparing for that is one reason I see these as desirable while still being useful right now (Particularly for the SuperNes where I'm completely satisfied with S-Video connected to this CRT).

I'm hoping to see capabilities increase and prices decrease, something I see as inevitable as we move further into the HD age and the demand for the capabilities that something like the XRGB Mini provides rises.

My original N64 is definitely out judging by what you said. Was new and a Christmas present in 1999, so it all but certainly was produced sometime earlier that year. Hopefully this 2nd hand model that I picked up somewhere is an older model.

[RP2A03]

I strangely disagree with this notion. I have a PS2 with component cables. When I play a PlayStation 1 game using these cables on my LCD monitor, the game does not display since the output resolution is 240p. The Retrovision cables would not work on it However, the game displays perfectly fine on my Samsung CRT / EDTV / SDTV with the ability to display 480p and 1080i.

So I really have no clue what is going on with this thing. I did find a link to the manual online. Maybe you can make sense of it.

http://www.manualslib.com/manual/145...duct-TSL2795HF

From what I have been able to determine from the service manual, YPbPr and VGA are sent directly to the CXA2101. The purpose of the CXA2101 is to convert signals to RGB and then send them off to the video driver. The CXA2101 does not appear to do scan rate conversion, which means that the TV is capable of 15Khz scan if you got 240p working on it. However, everything else is sent to the VPC3230 which may or may not be set up for 15Khz output; I can't tell. Do you have scanlines when a 240p game is hooked through composite?

Also, your TV may be compatible with PAL signals.

[Greg2600]

I'll be hooking it up to a SD Trinitron, at least for now.

An XRGB Mini or equivalent is just a dream at the moment, but it's in my game plan for one of these days and preparing for that is one reason I see these as desirable while still being useful right now (Particularly for the SuperNes where I'm completely satisfied with S-Video connected to this CRT).

I'm hoping to see capabilities increase and prices decrease, something I see as inevitable as we move further into the HD age and the demand for the capabilities that something like the XRGB Mini provides rises.

My original N64 is definitely out judging by what you said. Was new and a Christmas present in 1999, so it all but certainly was produced sometime earlier that year. Hopefully this 2nd hand model that I picked up somewhere is an older model.

Just my two cents, but I don't feel there's much of a difference between S-Video and component (via RGB) from the N64, on a CRT.

[Leo_A]

Yeah, I suspect it will be negligible under such circumstances unlike the Genesis version where I'm confident I'm going to see a clear difference.

But future proofing my setup with a cable that may not be available when the day arrives where it is going to provide a clear advantage, still makes it desirable. And if it can be utilized on a RGB modded Nintendo 64, even better.

Plus, there's nothing confusing with component like worrying about different standards, sync, etc. Avoiding RGB/Scart cables is fine by me just for the simplification.

Edit: I thought you were talking SuperNes, but my answer still applies. Add an XRGB Mini and a large screen HDTV to the equation and I think the differences between S-Video and component, even on consoles with high quality S-Video output, will be readily apparent.

You can see the difference when upscaled via an XRGB just on YouTube videos. I was watching a Majora's Mask video via S-Video to an XRGB Mini a few hours ago and while it basically looked about like it would via S-Video to my Trinitron, the RGB videos were amazing (At least those without the awful fake scan-line effect like this below is riddled with).

S-Video XRGB Mini



RGB XRGB Mini



RGB XRGB Mini (With awful fake scanlines destroying the picture)

[theclaw]

Indeed from the viewpoint of users like myself, component is nothing short of a savior.

Universally common cables/jacks/etc
No broadcast formats RF has to deal with (even NTSC-US and NTSC-J have compatibility issues via RF)
No NTSC/PAL/SECAM color encoding (good as it can look, s-video still uses them)
No SCART vs JP21 pinout
No c-sync vs CVBS sync.
No sync on green (why PS2/PS3 VGA is useless on most TVs)
No DVD movies turning green on PS2/PS3
No SCART signaling voltage
No cable swap for 480p and greater on compatible TVs (480p in SCART-like formats is a non-standard most consoles don't officially allow anyway)
Cables work for all regions of the same console (as far as I know, unlike RGB changes or removal on SNES/Saturn/GC/Wii/etc)

I admit component vs d-terminal is disappointing in this sense. But impossible to confuse, mutual physical incompatibility.

[y9784]

From what I have been able to determine from the service manual, YPbPr and VGA are sent directly to the CXA2101. The purpose of the CXA2101 is to convert signals to RGB and then send them off to the video driver. The CXA2101 does not appear to do scan rate conversion, which means that the TV is capable of 15Khz scan if you got 240p working on it. However, everything else is sent to the VPC3230 which may or may not be set up for 15Khz output; I can't tell. Do you have scanlines when a 240p game is hooked through composite?

Also, your TV may be compatible with PAL signals.

Ha ha. Nope, it doesn't work with PAL. I remember trying to run Bust-a-Move 3DX (a PAL game) on my PS1 back in 97 or 98 when I had no idea about the differences between releases. All I saw was a black and white picture that was offset. It may have rolled or was fuzzy too. I can't remember.

[RP2A03]

Ha ha. Nope, it doesn't work with PAL. I remember trying to run Bust-a-Move 3DX (a PAL game) on my PS1 back in 97 or 98 when I had no idea about the differences between releases. All I saw was a black and white picture that was offset. It may have rolled or was fuzzy too. I can't remember.

The VPC3230 is PAL compatible, but before that I now see a comb filter that is not. There is still a chance that it could take PAL through component.

[Pikkon]

I have a pal snes that I modded with a supercic chip and also modded it for component.

On my sony trinitron with the pal snes hooked up with component it will output pal 60 and it works great.

[theclaw]

Edit: pointless

[Nz17]

Anyone who has used these: how are the HD Retrovision component cables?

[Eternal Champion]

Looks like initial production run sold out. Prices ended up being $55, plus Genesis Model 1 needs an adapter.