Limited Run Games (producing physical copies of digital games)

[Bojay1997]

It doesn't change the fact that the games are $30 each while the PS4 version launched with with both games at $30. How hard is it to question Nintendo or Sony to customize the case to allow two discs, two Vita cards, two Switch cards, etc. The reason why I mention other consoles, is because this isn't the first time LRG has done this. Steamworld Collection was released on the Vita and that in no way was "insufficient space" to fit on a single card, compared to both PS4 and Wii U that had both games on disc.

Or, how about when I mentioned after the second LRG release of the Kemco RPGs that Kemco announced a Japanese exclusive game that included two of those games. The collection includes four games for less than two LRG releases. LRG later released the final two games in the collection at $25 each. After the Japanese announcement of the collection. I don't think the fanbase who purchased the previous two would be that upset when the alternative is to pay $25, but hey, LRG doesn't give a crap about it's fanbase, it's all about the money and it's always been about the money. The die hard fans are starting to finally realize this, though they should have realized this long before.

And it's already been stated, but why the hell are we still paying a premium when they no longer have any of these games on hand? Their excuse used to be because of the risk. Even back then there was no risk, because when every single game sells out within a few days you've already made your money back alongside a massive return. The fact that they don't even have these games on hand for months means the risk excuse is even more bullshit, so when they do something like this it's even more scummy.

So don't buy the game. You said it yourself, you can buy it cheaper on PS4. You can also buy it cheaper on PC and PS4 digitally. Nobody cares if you buy it or not. Some of us will buy it because we want a physical copy on a great platform in the Switch and there is no other way to get a physical copy for that platform.

LRG is relatively constrained in what they can do because if they change the structure of a digital release, they have to submit it as if it's an entirely new product to Sony and Nintendo. That's why they were floating the idea of doing Telltale game releases that spanned five discs when all of the episodes could easily fit on one disc. They don't have the ability to repackage the assets, they literally just take the digital build and slap it on physical media. That's also why in most cases it only costs $25 or $30 for a game and not $50 or $60 since the amount of technical expertise and programming they are paying for is small.

Whether the games are on hand or not has nothing to do with pricing. Gamestop doesn't discount the price of their exclusives just because you have to preorder months in advance or risk a sellout. You also have no idea if LRG make a big profit or not. They have a number of employees, warehouse and office space, IT and utility costs, packaging and shipping/fulfillment costs, customer service expenses, taxes, payroll, benefits and lots of overhead that eats up the profit they make. Of course, that doesn't even include ESRB costs, replication costs and the most important cost, the revenue share to the developer. Frankly, I suspect you have never run a business in your life and have no idea what you're talking about. Moreover, if you feel so strongly about your opinions, I would encourage you to take them directly to LRG and give them an opportunity to defend themselves. Instead, you always run here where you can hide behind the anonymity of a dead forum where LRG will never see your crazy claims and theories. It's really super sad.

[Gameguy]

Remember, don't have or post an opinion unless it's the same as Bojay1997's.

[Gameguy]

You also have no idea if LRG make a big profit or not.

LRG is doing fine.

So how do you know how they're doing? Do you have access to their accounting information?

[Bojay1997]

So how do you know how they're doing? Do you have access to their accounting information?

I actually know a couple of developers personally who have deals with them, so I know what the publishing deals look like. Similarly, I do a lot of legal work for small businesses in the media and entertainment space, so I understand pretty specifically how a publishing and distribution software business works. Couple that with the information that the owners of LRG have provided publicly about their business and I think I have a pretty good handle on how their business operates.

[Bojay1997]

Remember, don't have or post an opinion unless it's the same as Bojay1997's.

Or, you know, post an opinion that is backed up with actual data or facts instead of just continually attacking a business built with hard work by fellow collectors and gamers through unsubstantiated speculation and innuendo of nefarious activities.

[kupomogli]

Or, you know, post an opinion that is backed up with actual data or facts instead of just continually attacking a business built with hard work by fellow collectors and gamers through unsubstantiated speculation and innuendo of nefarious activities.

Bojay trying to justify why his opinion is more valid than our opinions while he also doesn't know the exact details of LRG's business.

I think this is really the perfect time to say "ithat's just your opinion, man." I'm called out for forcing my opinions down people's throat for liking to give detail as to why I think what I do, but Bojay is saying our opinion is wrong and because he thinks he might have more knowledge about how a business is ran, that he knows exactly how LRG is running their business.

I mean this in the nicest way possible, but Bojay, you really need to get your head out of your high horses ass.

[Gameguy]

Or, you know, post an opinion that is backed up with actual data or facts instead of just continually attacking a business built with hard work by fellow collectors and gamers through unsubstantiated speculation and innuendo of nefarious activities.

You keep wanting consumers to view LRG from a business perspective instead of from a customer's prospective, that's just not going to happen. Any business won't succeed just because consumers feel sorry for them, empathising with how hard it is to run a profitable business. Consumers support businesses as long as they feel they're personally getting sufficient value for what they're spending, while also feeling appreciated for being a customer. The exception for feeling appreciated is if the product is sufficiently priced lower than it's perceived value, as in being priced incredibly cheap. People buy things from soulless big box stores because they're the cheapest option, and will switch stores if another one becomes cheaper, because there's no loyalty to any particular store due to how impersonal customers are treated.

Even if everything you say about LRG is true, that they truly only care about their customers and are trying their best to meet demands at the lowest prices possible, that they aren't in any way greedy, etc, then they have a much different problem. Their marketing and PR is terrible. They're still coming across like they just care about making as much of a profit as they can and that's it, that their customers should be grateful just for the chance at obtaining one of their elusive products as we're all undeserving of them. Large corporations like Wal-Mart and Disney only care about profit but they still come across as cuddly and friendly because their marketing and PR is much better.

If there are issues or anything that could possibly be improved, those issues should be brought up. If people just stopped buying their products as you're suggesting("So don't buy the game") then that's money they'll be losing, and that would eventually lead to bankruptcy if enough of their customers stop buying from them. It's like when restaurants are just confused why they aren't getting customers anymore and just go out of business, rather than adapt by correcting issues and attracting customers again. It's not just the food or product they receive, but the pricing, and the customer service too. A restaurant can have amazing food but if the servers treat you like total garbage you still won't be eating there again. I welcome discussions here about everyone's opinion and experiences, not just positive-only posts about the company.

Also, I personally don't believe the angle that they're releasing games that just wouldn't otherwise get a release at all, at least not anymore. There are several other companies doing the same thing they are, if LRG wasn't licensing games for release then a different company would be doing it instead.

[Bojay1997]

You keep wanting consumers to view LRG from a business perspective instead of from a customer's prospective, that's just not going to happen. Any business won't succeed just because consumers feel sorry for them, empathising with how hard it is to run a profitable business. Consumers support businesses as long as they feel they're personally getting sufficient value for what they're spending, while also feeling appreciated for being a customer. The exception for feeling appreciated is if the product is sufficiently priced lower than it's perceived value, as in being priced incredibly cheap. People buy things from soulless big box stores because they're the cheapest option, and will switch stores if another one becomes cheaper, because there's no loyalty to any particular store due to how impersonal customers are treated.

Even if everything you say about LRG is true, that they truly only care about their customers and are trying their best to meet demands at the lowest prices possible, that they aren't in any way greedy, etc, then they have a much different problem. Their marketing and PR is terrible. They're still coming across like they just care about making as much of a profit as they can and that's it, that their customers should be grateful just for the chance at obtaining one of their elusive products as we're all undeserving of them. Large corporations like Wal-Mart and Disney only care about profit but they still come across as cuddly and friendly because their marketing and PR is much better.

If there are issues or anything that could possibly be improved, those issues should be brought up. If people just stopped buying their products as you're suggesting("So don't buy the game") then that's money they'll be losing, and that would eventually lead to bankruptcy if enough of their customers stop buying from them. It's like when restaurants are just confused why they aren't getting customers anymore and just go out of business, rather than adapt by correcting issues and attracting customers again. It's not just the food or product they receive, but the pricing, and the customer service too. A restaurant can have amazing food but if the servers treat you like total garbage you still won't be eating there again. I welcome discussions here about everyone's opinion and experiences, not just positive-only posts about the company.

Also, I personally don't believe the angle that they're releasing games that just wouldn't otherwise get a release at all, at least not anymore. There are several other companies doing the same thing they are, if LRG wasn't licensing games for release then a different company would be doing it instead.

Here's the thing. People are free to post whatever thoughts and opinions about LRG here or elsewhere. My issue is with people posting and repeating false information in an attempt to support that their opinions are somehow better informed and based in fact when clearly they are not. As someone who has worked with many businesses over the years, I understand how important consumer feedback can be. At the same time, the proliferation of easy feedback tools like e-mail, Yelp, Twitter, Facebook, other social media, etc...have changed the way businesses have to weigh and incorporate feedback. In other words, in the old days when people had to mail a letter or make a phone call to complain, those complaints tended to have more value because it took a lot of effort to even complain. Today, anyone can post a complaint or make a suggestion and unfortunately, businesses can't incorporate all of them or even respond to all of them. Ultimately, the measure of success or failure of a business is its sales and LRG continues to do well, even recently reaching a deal with Best Buy to distribute a few titles in their stores.

With regard to the competition, I disagree that there is any other company out there that has a business model that would allow the release of even a fraction of the releases LRG is able to get into collector and gamer hands physically. I mean LRG is at well over 100 releases in three years when the next most prolific competitors (Play Asia and Soedesco) are at maybe 20 each in the same period. Ultimately, I still contend that much of the negative is being spewed by folks who are envious of what LRG has been able to accomplish and the fact that they are gamers and collectors like many of us. While there is always room for improvement, LRG knows what they are doing and has successfully navigated the transition to a highly saturated marketplace while continuing to provide greater variety for gamers and collectors to choose from.

[Gameguy]

With regard to the competition, I disagree that there is any other company out there that has a business model that would allow the release of even a fraction of the releases LRG is able to get into collector and gamer hands physically. I mean LRG is at well over 100 releases in three years when the next most prolific competitors (Play Asia and Soedesco) are at maybe 20 each in the same period.

The feeling I get with LRG is that it's quantity over quality, they just want to publish and profit on as many games as possible regardless if they're good or not. They know people will buy them for their collectability and as a future "investment" due to how limited they are. I don't know if that's really how they feel or not(I do suspect so), but that's how they're starting to come across to a large number of their customer base. Yes they're still selling out, and as you can see in this thread even the people who regularly complain about them are still buying games from them. Eventually people will become burnt out on buying every release and variant just to have a complete collection, and then they'll just focus on games they personally like, and eventually stop buying the majority of the titles being released. It just hasn't peaked yet, but it will. Just like with Beanie Babies.

I still feel that if LRG wasn't around, other companies already releasing similar games would pick up the slack and start publishing more games. They just aren't fighting over as many of the games that LRG are already picking up.

[Bojay1997]

The feeling I get with LRG is that it's quantity over quality, they just want to publish and profit on as many games as possible regardless if they're good or not. They know people will buy them for their collectability and as a future "investment" due to how limited they are. I don't know if that's really how they feel or not(I do suspect so), but that's how they're starting to come across to a large number of their customer base. Yes they're still selling out, and as you can see in this thread even the people who regularly complain about them are still buying games from them. Eventually people will become burnt out on buying every release and variant just to have a complete collection, and then they'll just focus on games they personally like, and eventually stop buying the majority of the titles being released. It just hasn't peaked yet, but it will. Just like with Beanie Babies.

I still feel that if LRG wasn't around, other companies already releasing similar games would pick up the slack and start publishing more games. They just aren't fighting over as many of the games that LRG are already picking up.

People have been making that same argument since the beginning and what I really like about LRG is that they aren't always just about the higher profile games and that they honor their indie roots by releasing stuff that literally nobody else would. There are very few LRG games that I would say are objectively bad and while not all of their releases are for everyone, I do think they have tons of variety and quality to make it more than just collecting for the sake of collecting. Regardless, they have been the first to admit that their customer base has changed over time and scalpers and resellers are on the decline as are "full setters". That means they have had to broaden their customer base which seems to be good for everyone.

I don't know that there are all that many companies that would be willing to do runs of as few as 2,000 games like LRG does even three years in. Most of the other companies that existed prior to LRG are retail focused and that means quantities of 10K+ on most titles and often more. Some companies like Badlands have essentially collapsed and others like Rising Star have shifted to the digital space and far fewer physical releases. Soedesco is still around but they are doing fewer releases and are now more focused on monetizing by doing large collector's editions. Special Reserve has struggled despite having lots of assistance from LRG and really, the only successful publisher has been Play Asia, although they seem to be focused mostly on games that will sell well in the Asian market as well as worldwide. I just don't see anyone out there that would pick up the slack and there are certainly much less reputable companies out there like Super Rare Games that have no problem artificially manipulating supply by claiming sell-outs and then quickly bundling the same games to maximize profits.

[kupomogli]

The feeling I get with LRG is that it's quantity over quality, they just want to publish and profit on as many games as possible regardless if they're good or not. They know people will buy them for their collectability and as a future "investment" due to how limited they are. I don't know if that's really how they feel or not(I do suspect so), but that's how they're starting to come across to a large number of their customer base. Yes they're still selling out, and as you can see in this thread even the people who regularly complain about them are still buying games from them. Eventually people will become burnt out on buying every release and variant just to have a complete collection, and then they'll just focus on games they personally like, and eventually stop buying the majority of the titles being released. It just hasn't peaked yet, but it will. Just like with Beanie Babies.

I still feel that if LRG wasn't around, other companies already releasing similar games would pick up the slack and start publishing more games. They just aren't fighting over as many of the games that LRG are already picking up.

It is and people have been starting to get burnt out. Just take a look at LRG earlier releases once they started getting a bit more popular and how many games they moved, now a lot of their most popular games are only pushing around the same the less popular games in the past were.

Take Salt and Sanctuary, a very recent PS4/Vita release. 4300 copies for PS4 and 2800 for Vita.
Then there's Nex Machina was PS4 only that was in the peak of LRG popularity, with 8500 copies, more than both the PS4 and Vita version of Salt and Sanctuary combined. La Mulana was Vita only and had 5500 copies. Windjammers was 12,300.

Or even compare the Kemco titles. Asdivine Hearts was the first released Kemco title with 3800 each console, while Dragon Sinker is the latest released game with 2300 each console. So yeah, people have definitely been getting burnt out on LRG releasing anything and everything they can.

[Aussie2B]

While there has been a general trend of LRG releases selling less and slower, recent Vita games are poor examples. Sony is limiting how many Vita cards can be ordered by each publisher, so LRG has to ration their allocation among all the remaining Vita releases they have. They would make the Vita print runs larger for some games if they could. Salt & Sanctuary sold out extremely fast on Vita and didn't come close to meeting demand. They also underestimated Salt & Sanctuary demand by assuming the Switch release would lower demand more than it actually did.

[Bojay1997]

While there has been a general trend of LRG releases selling less and slower, recent Vita games are poor examples. Sony is limiting how many Vita cards can be ordered by each publisher, so LRG has to ration their allocation among all the remaining Vita releases they have. They would make the Vita print runs larger for some games if they could. Salt & Sanctuary sold out extremely fast on Vita and didn't come close to meeting demand. They also underestimated Salt & Sanctuary demand by assuming the Switch release would lower demand more than it actually did.

Not to mention the Switch releases have been selling massive amounts during the preorder windows. If you look at total number of units across all SKUs in any given month, LRG's sales are up substantially from last year even with a much higher volume of releases.

[kupomogli]

While there has been a general trend of LRG releases selling less and slower, recent Vita games are poor examples. Sony is limiting how many Vita cards can be ordered by each publisher, so LRG has to ration their allocation among all the remaining Vita releases they have. They would make the Vita print runs larger for some games if they could. Salt & Sanctuary sold out extremely fast on Vita and didn't come close to meeting demand. They also underestimated Salt & Sanctuary demand by assuming the Switch release would lower demand more than it actually did.

There's still the Kemco comparison I made. Asdivine Hearts with 3800 on PS4 and Dragon Sinker with only 2300. Vita doesn't change the fact that they cut the quantity nearly in half.

[Bojay1997]

There's still the Kemco comparison I made. Asdivine Hearts with 3800 on PS4 and Dragon Sinker with only 2300. Vita doesn't change the fact that they cut the quantity nearly in half.

They have a total allotment of carts for the rest of their vita releases, so they are dividing them in a manner which they feel fits demand. It doesn't change the fact that their total sales, including on Vita, are way up this year.

[Aussie2B]

Dragon Sinker was affected by the rationing just the same as Salt & Sanctuary. You'd have to go to back June releases or either further to find a Vita game where LRG could pick any print run size they wanted. The fact Dragon Sinker is still in stock says something, but there's no conclusions to be drawn from the print run size.

[kupomogli]

I'd say no offense, but making me having to reiterate my post a second time because blind ignorance, yeah. I'm not sure if people aren't just fucking stupid or fucking blind, but the entire reason I already reiterated my post once, is to point out that the PS4 version of Adivine had 3800 copies, and the PS4 version of Dragon Sinker only had 2300 copies. The amount of PS4 copies of these two PS4 games were cut nearly in half from the first PS4 Kemco release to the latest PS4 Kemco release because the PS4 version of these PS4 games do not have limitations restricted on them because they are for the PS4 console, printed on PS4 Bluray discs, and packaged in PS4 cases with labels that explicitly state PS4 on the front cover of this PS4 label, in the PS4 box, and on the PS4 disc, of the PS4 game, that you can only play on the PS4 or the PS4 Pro, and possibly even the PS5 if it has backwards compatibility with the PS4 or a PC emulator once there's PS4 emulation where you can play the PS4 games that are meant to be played on PS4 hardware. PS4.

It doesn't change the fact that their total sales, including on Vita, are way up this year.

And their numbers being up doesn't change the fact that each title is selling less. I'm not sure why you're starting to argue that they're making more sales than ever before even though they're selling less of each title. They're releasing more product than ever before, that much is obvious. You still have a lot of people that will purchase anything and everything that releases and that is going to make up for any lost amount of individual game sales when they're purchasing from a larger release pool, that includes many mom and pop businesses that buy games bulk which LRG has a few of those. That's the likeliest reason why there's more sales overall but the individual product sales are lower.

I'm certain though that LRG would rather sell more copies of fewer games rather than more games with fewer copies each release. So despite having more sales, the individual releases expenses are eating into their profits more so than if they were to have less games and lower sales. Who knows how much profit they're making in comparison, it's not too difficult to do some research and come up with a decent guess if they're making more or less, and more than likely they are making more profit with nearly every release getting a half assed overpriced collector's edition it doesn't deserve combined with a much higher quantity of releases. However, if they didn't alienate their fanbase by releasing a constant stream of shit month in and month out for long periods of time week after week, they would have had a grew to a higher amount of sales per week, they wouldn't have to be putting so much effort licensing games as quickly as they can to make the same or a bit more, they wouldn't have had to pay all the expenses for each game. LRG treated their fanbase like dollar signs and the fanbase quit supporting them.

I'm just one of the few people who weren't blind of all this and realized what LRG was doing long before the flood of people who attack LRG Twitter day in and out are stating the same thing. If I'm a troll, then there's thousands of LRG fans who are trolls as well because they've started feeling the same way. And I'm aware that "if you don't like their practice don't buy it." But by not complaining about it, the practice gets worse, other publishers pick up that the public doesn't care, and then we start seeing this happen everywhere until it's out of control and no voice of the public can do anything to stop it(day one DLC, season passes, microtransactions, etc.)

[Aussie2B]

LRG has released four Kemco RPGs thus far, each for both PS4 and Vita, and of those, only one didn't have matching print run sizes for both platforms. So even though, yes, LRG doesn't have to ration out PS4 discs, there's still no way of knowing for sure that the limits for Vita aren't also affecting their choices for PS4 in the case of multiplatform releases, if LRG or a developer wants the print runs to be equal. Also, if you start your argument factoring in something, don't be surprised if people don't immediately realize or notice that you're suddenly factoring that out of your argument. Snide remarks and insults are uncalled for.

[Aussie2B]

Today is "Next Level Friday", and LRG is selling Double Switch for PS4 and Night Trap for Vita, with a collector's edition of each available. Unrelated to the Sega CD theme, there's also Siralim 2 for Vita and PS4. The first batch is selling out pretty fast, especially standard copies of Night Trap.

After skipping the PS4 and Switch versions, LRG finally suckered me into buying Night Trap. I got the CE and a Vita copy of Siralim 2.

[kupomogli]

Thanks to LRG and the shitty fucking way they announce games, I didn't Syralim 2 was coming out until today. Keeping up with their piece of shit Twitter account is like a full time job if you want to make sure you don't miss anything that might interest you. Siralim was announced this Tuesday and people bitch about this shit constantly, but what does LRG do? They know their shit will sell so who the fuck cares. I'm tired of hearing the excuses they're bound by contractual agreements, etc, because you don't know what the fucking agreements are, and until you do, your excuses don't mean shit. Anyone with fucking common sense realizes how bullshit it is the way that LRG are doing their announcements yet they consistently do this same shit nearly weekly. It wasn't a day prior this time but it was damn near close.

So I didn't get the Vita version of Siralim 2. Do I want it? Yeah, but I'm not even going to bother wasting my time for the late release. I've got shit to do, not going to have every waking moment revolve around LRG and their bullshit. Yet Doug and Josh act so surprised when their releases sell out slower and slower because they pull bullshit like this. Srsly fuck the way they do business, shitting all over people who are interested in the games they release and acting like everything revolves around them.

*edit*

You got to put a lot of effort just so you can reward yourself with some overpriced fucking games.