Cheating in single player games

[gbpxl]

It's universally agreed upon that if you are competing in an online game of Call of Duty and you have some sort of device or modification that allows you to have infinite health, this constitutes "cheating." And most would say that a Game Genie plugged in, allowing Mario to have infinite health would constitute "cheating" as well since it is creating an advantage against the AI that was not inherently accounted for during the programming. In the human VS computer example here, the human has an unfair advantage that goes against the original intent of the game developer's vision.

Where this gets tricky is, how is that example any different from having access to maps, FAQs, walkthroughs, hidden button combinations that arent advertised to the player (think the Konami code or lengthy combos in Mortal Kombat.) Some of those things, having knowledge of them, makes the games a breeze to play through. An example for me personally is Metroid. There's no way in Hell I would've ever been able to obtain the Varia Suit without looking it up online. So whenever I tell people I beat the game, I am quick to point out that I used the maps and some FAQs to assist me. This wasn't the original intent on the developer's part, for a gamer to be able to look up videos on exactly what you are supposed to do. Is that cheating? In my eyes, partially yeah.

But is it any different than a football coach video taping hand signals that the opponent is using in order to anticipate plays from the opposition? To me, it's using every resource possible to win. Looking up chess strategies, is that cheating? Almost everyone would say no. So is that any different than entering the Konami code and beating Contra? You researched a way to beat the game and you did so.

Obviously manipulating the data of the game to give an unfair advantage is a bridge too far for most purists, but watching Youtube videos and knowing exactly how to overcome a puzzle or what to type or what weapon to use on what enemy? How is that any different when you didnt try to figure it out on your own? You're taking the knowledge and hard work of others and just copying what they did.

I personally will try to figure a game out on its own but if it's too difficult, I will look it up. Still feels like cheating to me though.

[YoshiM]

I look at maps, hints and such not as "cheating" because you still need the skill to actually pull off what you are trying to accomplish. That'd be like getting hints from a friend or teacher how to do something better or how you can defeat an opponent better ("he favors his right side-punch him there").

Now devices that artificially give you the upper hand and you are competing with others, THAT'S cheating.

[gbpxl]

I look at maps, hints and such not as "cheating" because you still need the skill to actually pull off what you are trying to accomplish. That'd be like getting hints from a friend or teacher how to do something better or how you can defeat an opponent better ("he favors his right side-punch him there").

Now devices that artificially give you the upper hand and you are competing with others, THAT'S cheating.

yeah I agree with this. but man for a game like King's Quest, if you know all the commands, it takes a lot away from the challenge of the game. Some games take minimal skill, just problem solving

[YoshiM]

yeah I agree with this. but man for a game like King's Quest, if you know all the commands, it takes a lot away from the challenge of the game. Some games take minimal skill, just problem solving

When it came to games like King's Quest or their like (the early versions), it seemed like it was really a guessing game on what commands to use. If you didn't use the exact verbage the game recognized, you were up the creek. You had to try and put your mind into the developer's brain to figure out their "language" and word-object association.

Graphic icons made it better BUT then you had to figure out the proper item combinations to get ahead. What was that game where you had to combine syrup (or something sticky) with cat hair (or something like that) to make a mustache for a disguise? And sometimes logic didn't work-in CoCo game "The Interbank Incident" there was a manhole cover that acted like you could manipulate it. However every logical tool you'd use would not open it.

[nebrazca88]

Is there something inherently wrong with cheating at single player games? As long as you're not BSing people and telling them you did it the old fashioned way, who cares?

These days I cheat at single player games constantly. Time is limited and I can't sit around grinding for hours.

Over the past few weeks I've beaten Ys, Ys III and Light Crusader. In all three instances I gave myself max gold to start off and if I got stuck for more than 15 minutes or so I hit up a walkthrough. I found it immensely enjoyable and got to see virtually all of the content in all three games in less time than it would have taken me to beat just one of them.

Next up is Crusader Of Centy and Traysia and I can guarantee you I'll be cheating.

[SpaceHarrier]

Sometimes I feel the need to tattle on myself when talking about beating old arcade games, like Sunset Riders, by referencing the fact that I "quarter fed" my way through it.

How about re-released retro games that contain official emulation overlays with the ability to create save states, like 3DS eShop games or the NES/SNES Classic Mini? The original games didn't allow you to restart/retry from literally any point, but now official Nintendo products give you this feature.

Or using an officially licensed turbo controller, like the NES Advantage?

[nebrazca88]

Or using an officially licensed turbo controller, like the NES Advantage?

I see your location is The Fantasy Zone and my favorite way to play Fantasy Zone is with a Genesis 3 controller and turbo on. To me it's still cheating even if the controller is licensed, same with save states. I use them on the Everdrive all the time knowing full well I'm cheating, at least in my mind.

[YoshiM]

Sometimes I feel the need to tattle on myself when talking about beating old arcade games, like Sunset Riders, by referencing the fact that I "quarter fed" my way through it.

How about re-released retro games that contain official emulation overlays with the ability to create save states, like 3DS eShop games or the NES/SNES Classic Mini? The original games didn't allow you to restart/retry from literally any point, but now official Nintendo products give you this feature.

Or using an officially licensed turbo controller, like the NES Advantage?

I guess it's in the eye of the beholder and how nit picky they are. Personally I'd rather do the save state thing than a hack that gives a bunch of lives/coin, invulnerability, etc. Saves states is how I finally beat Super Mario 3 after thirty years.

[gbpxl]

game how you wanna game, its a free country BUT if someone brags about beating X game and they used save states, I think the gaming Gods strongly frown upon NOT disclosing that information. There's a huge difference between beating a game without the use of it and with the use of it and I dont think I need to explain to anyone here why that is because we are all familiar with how it de-incentivizes actually using skill. if there's no threat of having to start allllll the way back at level 1, I can keep trying to get past this enemy without actually killing him.

[Jimmy Yakapucci]

One of the ways of "cheating" that I have no problem with using is hidden level select codes. I remember back when Mickey Mania came out for the SNES. I was working my way through that and one day my wife asked me if I was going to try some more of my game before we went out that evening. I told her that I wasn't because we were leaving in an hour and it would take most of that to work my way back up to where I died off the last time I was playing. It was more trouble than it was worth if I have to play 30 - 45 minutes to even get back to where I left off, so a level select code is fine with me.

[Edmond Dantes]

Next up is Crusader Of Centy and Traysia and I can guarantee you I'll be cheating.

What the hell do Ys III or Centy even have that would warrant cheating though?

When it came to games like King's Quest or their like (the early versions), it seemed like it was really a guessing game on what commands to use. If you didn't use the exact verbage the game recognized, you were up the creek. You had to try and put your mind into the developer's brain to figure out their "language" and word-object association.

This is one reason I love Infocom games--they programmed their parser so you can type like a human being and get a response, so it was almost like the comp was human (and that mailbox was the cutest thing ever). It kinda spoiled me on other text adventures that have the "use only two words" limitation so you had to figure out how to make the dude chop down a door with an axe.

Then there was the time there was a parser oversight (like the ending of the second Leisure Suit Larry II) that forced you to type a very specific line a very specific way to very specifically do a specific thing, specifically.

What was that game where you had to combine syrup (or something sticky) with cat hair (or something like that) to make a mustache for a disguise?

Gabriel Knight III. What made that even better was the dude you were disguising as *doesn't have a moustache*

Where this gets tricky is, how is that example any different from having access to maps, FAQs, walkthroughs, hidden button combinations that arent advertised to the player (think the Konami code or lengthy combos in Mortal Kombat.) Some of those things, having knowledge of them, makes the games a breeze to play through. An example for me personally is Metroid. There's no way in Hell I would've ever been able to obtain the Varia Suit without looking it up online.

For me this stuff is.... well I tend to have a "it depends on the game and my mood" thing.

Like, I absolutely will not use a walkthru with any of the Myst games. Not at all. That would be admitting defeat, it would also be defeating the purpose of the game itself. Like why even buy it if I'm not gonna experience it on my own, I might as well watch a lets play in that case.

But where I get frustrated is when a game is story-driven, and it makes it seem like you just have to do whatever you would naturally do in the circumstances... but then suddenly you get stuck. I only played it once but I recall one of the Danganronpa games having a part like that where during one of the trials, the thing you needed to present as evidence was something nobody would ever naturally think of. That was annoying because up until then the game had gotten me in a groove of thinking it would gently prod me in the right direction, then it throws this curveball.

JRPGs and Zelda-clones also sometimes have this problem. I know at one point in Landstalker I was stuck because the story would not advance (turned out I apparently needed to talk to specific NPCs in Mercator and there was one--a gal guarding a stairway whose hitbox almost overlaps with another gal--that I missed).

A game like say Dragon Warrior or Might and Magic: Secret of the Inner Sanctum though... I try to avoid walkthrus, and I usually take it as a bad sign when I'm using one, as it usually means I'm bored or getting burned out on the game and just want it over already, and at that point I might as well not even play if I'm so displeased with the experience.

[Gameguy]

Is it cheating if you're not using a Game Genie or Gameshark, or modding a PC game with patches of some type?

[Edmond Dantes]

Is it cheating if you're not using a Game Genie or Gameshark, or modding a PC game with patches of some type?

Just the way this thread has played out, apparently even using a walkthru is a form of "cheating." I've just been going with the definition everyone else has been using.

[nebrazca88]

About Ys III or Crusader Of Centy it's just about giving myself max gold so I save the time I would have spent grinding.

[gbpxl]

About Ys III or Crusader Of Centy it's just about giving myself max gold so I save the time I would have spent grinding.

Never played either one. If that's a feature that is inherently built into the game, to save you time, so you dont have to play the game, I dont see it as cheating at all.

[nebrazca88]

Never played either one. If that's a feature that is inherently built into the game, to save you time, so you dont have to play the game, I dont see it as cheating at all.

It's the Game Genie feature that's built in to my Everdrive so it's definitely cheating.

[Edmond Dantes]

Wow, it's been too long since I've played Centy as I completely forgot it even had money as a gameplay element.

[Emperor Megas]

What the hell do Ys III or Centy even have that would warrant cheating though?

In Ys III if you have a controller with auto fire and you don't want to grind you can switch it on in certain spots where weak enemies constantly respawn onscreen and just let the game auto grind for you.

Gabriel Knight III. What made that even better was the dude you were disguising as *doesn't have a moustache*

That's HILARIOUS!

[RARusk]

Gabriel Knight III. What made that even better was the dude you were disguising as *doesn't have a moustache*

Reminds me of Hitman 2. In Whittleton Creek there is a guy named Spencer Green, one of the Guards inside the Cassidy House, that you can knock out and take his clothes for a disguise. And pretty much almost all of his fellow Guards are cool with you when wearing the disguise.....despite the fact that Spencer is black and Agent 47 is white.