Sega Master System Versus Nintendo Entertainment System.

[bb_hood]

SMB3 is not too long, if anything its not long enough. The whistles are easy to get, in a few minutes you can warp to any level in the game.
The NES has way more and way better RPGs than the sms.

[7th lutz]

While the NES has way more RPGs than the SMS, Not a lot RPGs on the NES you can say are better than Phantasy Star. Phantasy Star is considered one the greatest rpgs from the 8 bit era. I consider it stronger than the first two Dragon Warrior games at least. Dragon Warrior 3 and 4 does come close to Phantasy Star and Final Fantasy, but nothing else to me that was released in the united states on the NES in terms of turn based RPGS.

[Tanooki]

I agree that Phantasy Star was one of the absolute best of the 8bit RPGs, perhaps it's unfair, but I think Dragon Warrior IV trumps it and Final Fantasy. The game was a very late release, easily could and should have been a near launch SNES title (like FF2/4j was.) There's so much in that one RPG between all those mini RPGs that make up the first four chapters, then the huge one where the parties combine.

[Zap!]

The only 8-bit console RPG that is better than Phantasy Star is Ys: Book 1 and 2 for the Turbo Grafx CD-ROM, and it's stretching it a bit to call it 8-bit.

[Tanooki]

If Ys were an RPG I might agree with that, but it isnt. Its as much an RPG as Zelda or Golden Axe Warrior is. I mentioned DW4 because it is designed like a 16bit earlier 90s RPG, it just happened to be stuck on old hardware. I never did understand why that never was on the SFC like 5 and 6.

[bb_hood]

In my opinion, Final Fantasy, DW2,3,4 and Sweet Home are all better RPGs than Phantasy Star.

[Tanooki]

I think Master System fans hang off that as it was the only good/great RPG franchise Sega had in the 8/16bit era. It's a good series, but it's not without its flaws, though I don't agree that Dragon Warrior 2 is better as that game is just rough.

[7th lutz]

I think Master System fans hang off that as it was the only good/great RPG franchise Sega had in the 8/16bit era. It's a good series, but it's not without its flaws, though I don't agree that Dragon Warrior 2 is better as that game is just rough.

I agree that Phantasy Star series has flaws since there was translation issues and other issues with the series. I actually don't think any the Genesis Phantasy Star Games is in the same league as Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy 6. I didn't say Super Mario Rpg since I never played it.

To me Phantasy Star 3 is the biggest flawed game of the series although I loved the multiple Generations concept. That needs to be blamed on the fact there was different Development team for Phantasy Star 3 compare to Phantasy Star 1,2 and 4. Phantasy Star 3 the development responsible for the Golden Axe port on the Genesis and the team for Phantasy Star 3 only 1 person from that time that worked with Phantasy Star 2.

My issue with 2 is the encounter rates although the character development outside the main character was about non exist. Phantasy Star 2 end was a bigger shocker and the first game console RPG that had a death from a member in your party.

Phantasy Star 4 was great in Character development, good graphics, and good battle system. The only issues that game had having the same boss multiple times in one game despite its past as a final boss in the first Phantasy games, and the other issue is the game to me seemed easier than Phantasy Star 1 and 2.

[Greg2600]

Even if SMS has better RPG's, it's library doesn't stand up to NES in other genres. Sega knew this, they couldn't get the publishers on their side due to Nintendo's exclusivity agreements. Additionally, SEGA tried to counter with arcade ports primarily of their own stuff. Those attempts were often not good. For every Fantasy Zone, you had Altered Beast or Thunderblade. The SMS was just not powerful enough for those titles. Something only Tengen seemed to screw up on the NES, unlicensed of course.

[Tanooki]

I've only played the first two Phantasy Star games enough, the third was awful to the point I quit pretty quickly on it. I used to have this package on the GBA that had all 3 titles and it blew, the other two I've owned originals of, never had the 4th one. I always liked PS1 over PS2 because as you said, the encounter rate -- it just gets infuriating, much like the DC/GC game Skies of Arcadia, it was so overkill every few steps they fixed it on the GC due to all the complaints. I heard PS4 was fantastic and really a nice topper to the series for the hardware, just like DW4 was for NES. I thought it was entirely unreasonable for them to leave that off that GBA collection.

[celerystalker]

I just read this thread, and I'm a little stunned that anyone would objectively try to say the SMS is better than NES in game library comparison. I have just about the entire US library. It's weak.

Phantasy Star was a marvel in its time, but have you played it lately? Those first-person dungeons with one wall set are pretty rough if you don't go online and print out maps. As a kid, I would never have graphed that all out when Final Fantasy was out just a little later. I like the game. I even played through the PS2 Sega Ages remake. It's not as good as Final Fantasy or Dragon Warrior III or IV. I actually think Miracle Warriors is as good on SMS.

Alex Kidd better than any of the three main NES Marios? No way. As a kid, the Janken match bosses were such a random thing it was ridiculous. When I came back to it later and finished, I still really like it, but seriously, have you finished it? The difficulty curve jump in the last level is an absurd departure. The game is wildly unbalanced.

Light guns... that is where SMS rocks the NES. 2 player Gangster Town shames anything NES. Freedom Force, Hogan's Alley, Wild Gunman, Mechanized Attack, and To the Earth combined can't touch it. Safari Hunt whoops Duck Hunt, Shooting Gallery is better than Barker Bill's Trick Shooting, and Rescue Mission, Rambo III, and Missile Defense are entertaining as well.

Shooters-in the US, Power Strike and Fantasy Zone are about all that don't suck. Give me Gradius, Life Force, Gun Nac, Zanac, Guardian Legend's shooter areas, etc.

Adventure: I love Golvellius. I like the 2 NES Zeldas better. Golden Axe Warrior is OK, but I'll take Crystalis. Aztec Adventure sucks, so I'll take Legacy of the Wizard and Faxanadu. Zillion is NOT Metroid. It's Impossible Mission II at best. Goonies II, Battle of Olympus, Dr Chaos, Rygar, and Milon's Secret Castle widen the gap to distances Spellcaster and Alf can't bridge. Wonder Boy III does rule. I just like Kid Icarus, Spiritual Warfare (I do like it... what? I can like it...), Simon's Quest, and Faria, too.

The best of the best SMS games can compare somewhat well to some of the best NES games, but there are just too manymore on NES to keep it fair. Even if Alex Kidd's games were as good as Mario's, and they aren't, Kirby, Kid Klown, Kiwi Kraze, Toki, Castlevanias, Contras, Rush 'n Attack, Adventure Islands, Bonk, and dozens more overload the scale. You could take the "pound for pound" position, but personally, I wouldn't want to be betting on Penguin Land, James Buster Douglas, and Lord of the Sword to carry me into a fight that makes Captain Skyhawk start to look good.

I like my Master System, but there's a reason it never sold great. Complaining about Nintendo's unfair practices at the time won't make Mega Man retroactively appear on the System. History is what it is, and it left the system's library too soft to compete. These two aren't in the same league, and the Master System is no Genesis. I think if someone posted an SNES vs CD-i thread, some people would pop out to back the CD-i. I can imagine it now... "CD-i has three Zeldas to the SNES' one! Hotel Mario is better than Super Mario World. Math Blaster and Mario's learning games are schooled by CD-i's edutainment software!"

I'd love a consolation prize thread, like 3DO vs Jaguar or CD-i vs LaserActive. Jaguar CD vs 32X... I wanna see somebody arguing BattleMorph vs Shadow Squadron, damn it!

[7th lutz]

I just read this thread, and I'm a little stunned that anyone would objectively try to say the SMS is better than NES in game library comparison. I have just about the entire US library. It's weak.

Phantasy Star was a marvel in its time, but have you played it lately? Those first-person dungeons with one wall set are pretty rough if you don't go online and print out maps. As a kid, I would never have graphed that all out when Final Fantasy was out just a little later. I like the game. I even played through the PS2 Sega Ages remake. It's not as good as Final Fantasy or Dragon Warrior III or IV. I actually think Miracle Warriors is as good on SMS.

I bought the Sega Master System around 2000 when I was a college student. I first played Phantasy Star 1 in the early 2000's. I last played the game around 2010. I had no problems with the game since I have my computer. I always depended on a map for Phantasy Star the SMS and Phantasy 2 for the Genesis.

During the 8 bit era, I played Atari 2600 and Atari 7800 games. The SMS game library is way better than the 7800's game library without counting the homebrew Atari 7800 games.

I got a NES in 1991 and a Genesis in 92. The NES is one of the best game libraries to me, but the SMS to me is underrated since I looked at the European and Brazil SMS games. The SMS being region free helps out for European and Brazil games that the US didn't in terms of making my game library bigger.

You don't have tell me that the NES has the better game library in the United States because it the worst kept secret as a person that owns a 7800,NES, and SMS. I own US, European, and Brazil SMS games. I am still after more oversea games for the SMS.

The European and Brazil SMS Library is stronger than US. In terms of Imports right now for the SMS from Europe and Brazil, I have Aladdin, Baku Baku, Ariel the Little Mermaid, Asterix, Asterix the Secret mission, Bonkers Wax Up, Cheese Cat-Astrophe Staring Speedy, Gauntlet, Jurassic Park, Klax, Mercs, Mortal Kombat 2, Pacmania, Scramble Spirits, Sonic 2, The incredible Hulk, The Lucky Duck Caper Starring Donald Duck, The Simpsons: Bart Vs the World, The Smurfs, Ultima IV, X-Men: Mojo World. My favorites from an import side are Aladdin, Baku Baku, the 2 asterix games, Gaunlet, Klax, Mercs, Pacmania, and The Lucky Duck Caper Starring Donald Duck.

[Tanooki]

I've had 2 SMS systems before. One was in the early 2000s and lasted about 3 years (victim of unemployment/underemployment great collection die off) with a load of games everything all CIB and pretty and the system too. Prior to that I had never seen one except at one friends house and used it a few times to play some Sega arcade ports like Shinobi, Afterburner, and Fantasy Zone. I then got another and kept it for nearly 2 years but sold it too as with the kid keeping so much around was a bad idea with no time for it. I don't have kiddy nostalgia tingles about the system and never did. THat's why I know I believe what I do that the system was a fairly quality piece of hardware with some nice games, but at the same time it had some seriously glaring problems on the system from the dumb pause/start button on the deck to the multitude of poor games it had outside of Sega entries in a lot of cases. It's not entirely fair though to say poor because we in the US got screwed by Tonka and Sega while the PAL market and Brazil by far more got some stunning stuff. I wasn't even aware with my first system that PAL games worked on the thing and I had like 30-40 games I loved for it, the second go around I bought the stuff that still played well but had a good healthy split of some fantastic UK releases which kept things fresh.

The SMS was deservedly the second best system on the market, and I agree the 7800 sucked compared to the SMS and was a floundering joke against the NES as far as what it offered. The SMS was only underrated if you understood what we did not get at retail, but that is fair as most people wouldn't think to look overseas to games that normally would NOT work on a NTSC TV due to being PAL. We have a LOT of info out there now from more places than even are necessary to exist, but back in the early 2000s that little fact probably was largely less obvious if you didn't hang at Sega16, Eidolons Inn and other dedicated spaces. Pound for pound the SMS library was loaded with so much crap in the US only market it was just tragic against the NES which was no slouch in shoveling turds too but due to quantity had so much more going right both 1st and 3rd party. Had Sega put the full PAL lineup here, I think it would have been them still in second, but a much stronger one. Even they realized it far too late rebadging 5-6 solid UK releases with US barcode stickers because those titles were just that too good to miss.

[celerystalker]

You know, for years I've been hearing about the vaunted Brazilian and European MasterSystem lineup, and it's frankly just not there. Yeah, there are quite a few exclusives, but this isn't some stash of Phantasy Stars and Castlevanias. It's Game Gear ports, hacks to change games like Wonder Boy to popular Brazilian characters like Monica and Xule, and interesting ambitious but failed attempts to port arcade games like Street Fighter II, Mortal Kombat 3, Virtua Fighter, and Golden Axe to a system that just couldn't handle it. Yes, there is a sloppy Streets of Rage that is choppy and only supports one player (like Golden Axe), and yes, Sonic's conversions are about as good as their Game Gear counterparts. Battle Outrun is a nice idea, but it doesn't run well. I mean, I had a little fun with games like Speedball from Bitmap Brothers, but it's nothing special.

Believe me, I want there to be more, better games out there. If there are, please, tell me, because I'd love to have something new worth hunting for. I want the Master System versions of Alien Syndrome and Alien Storm to be awesome, but they aren't. I don't want the Master System to be as lacking as it is to me. I'm just a little disinclined to buy repackaged Game Gear games. Baku Baku's always been a Saturn game to me, but the SMS version is a Game Gear port. Most of the Sonics-Game Gear ports. X-men? Game Gear. Little Mermaid? Mickey's games? Bonkers? Game Gear ports. These all came out late in the '90s after the NES had long since retired.

The thing with Tec Toy... They weren't these wizards putting out gem upon gem and making waves. What they did was closer to what Majesco tried to do in the late '90s in the States: put out dated hardware and software at a budget price, marketed at low-income consumers. Brazil's economy has been for the longest time horribly divided into the super-rich and poverty with little in between on a national scale. In 1997, they weren't buying Playstations. That is the year that Virtua Fighter came out. 1997. The Genesis had come and gone by then, and the Saturn was dying. We were buying Nintendo 64s and Playstations. They were getting Master System games still, and Virtua Fighter wasn't the last one, and it's a bad port of a bad Game Gear game based on a bad cartoon based on a good Arcade game.

I don't mean to be overly aggressive in comparing systems, but as it is what the topic is about, I want to get to the bottom of it. I love 'em both, but I just can't believe some of the stuff I've read trying to make it seem like there is more to this comparison than there is.

So, please, and I mean this in earnest and not condescent, let me know what I'm missing, because my spending, ordering, and research has left me scratching my head, but I keep hearing about the brilliant overseas games. What are they? Power Strike II looks pretty good... Please don't say Mickey's Ultimate Challenge.

[Koa Zo]

I enjoy playing my Master System. I enjoy playing my NES.
Looks like I win this "vs." battle!

[Tanooki]

Celery I think you're being a bit overly hard on the 'vaunted' Brazilian and UK marketed games. You're correct though it's mostly just ported Game Gear and a few Genesis games too, but they're very well done games despite that and do add missing variety and quality depth to the system. I know stuff like the rebadged Brazilian mascots onto other games are junk and that SF2 is barely if at all passable, but they did have some solid games they only got just as the UK market did too. The largest issue with the market down south though, the stuff they uniquely got people have been scamming hard on the prices and it's just not there in quality, but if you could get them for a flatter to reality price with your normal UK or even US SMS releases they're good. Dynamite Headdy, Battletoads and some others were solid works down there. The UK though I think really brought it with the Genesis ports of the first two Streets of Rage games and then the other stuff like the Castlevania clone(forget name and I owned it), the Mickey 'Illusion' title, the Donkey Duck game, the 2 Sonic GG conversions, Strider, Golden Axe Warrior, and the rest. Sure they're not really 'something special' but if you're a SMS owner they are whether you agree or not. Sure they came out far too late to matter as these were like SNES/Genesis era conversions but it kept that old system alive in areas outside the US.

There isn't more comparison really on how the SMS is better, it wasn't, but they did have a lot of variety to choose from if you could get outside of what the US was sadly only given.

[celerystalker]

I may be being a little tough on the system, but I do really enjoy it. I've bought a lot of those exclusives, though, and at the time there wasn't as much info readily available, so I was super let down to find out I already had a lot of them on my Game Gear. I really did kinda secretly hope maybe you or 7th Lutz knew something I didn't though, I wasn't just trying to be a jerk. It's been years since I bought anything new to play on Master System, and I kinda miss the days when it felt like a new frontier to me. I do think that the Brazilian games are really over-hyped, though. They're almost all games readily available for a couple bucks a piece domestically on Game Gear, but fans tend to misrepresent them as exclusives, and that's where I take exception. I think potential buyers need to know what they're getting into, because a lot of these go for upwards of $100 anymore at auction.

Side note, though, I'd like to try a Castlevania clone on SMS. The only one I'm familiar with is Kenseiden, though I've heard a few people make the comparison with Lord of the Sword and Spellcaster.

Anyhow, sorry if I rubbed anyone the wrong way, there. I do think the quality of the overseas library is somewhat of a myth, but I don't mean to be rude about it.