Sachen console = Nes-cione or Sachen nes console ?

[mrjones2]

HI,

I was wondering if I should catogorize my Sachen Console as

Nes-clone or Sachen Nes Console?

If you don't know about it already, it eats Sachen carts along with normal Nes carts ( with no adaptor needed )

mrjones

[mrjones2]

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/view...ghlight=sachen

mrjones

[hydr0x]

it's an nes/famiclone, it's not licensed by nintendo, so it's a pirate famicom/nes which are called famiclones, NO WAY listing it as a Sachen console, if you do so you'd have to list ALL famiclones who have compatibility to not-pirated nes/famicom-carts as consoles by their manufacturer

[mrjones2]

Here's a pic of it:

http://huuto.net/auctionimages/1/87/...d43d0-orig.jpg

mrjones

[hydr0x]

yeah, i'd say that's a typical famiclone

[Ed Oscuro]

To be sure, a pretty cool one though.

[mrjones2]

I must disagree with a "famiclone", as this does not accept Famicom or famiclone carts , instead this was sold along with Sachen Manual + poster with all realeased Sachen carts sofar.

I believe the cart that came along with this was Jovial Race.

I would still like to stick with Sachen Nes console

mrjones

[Ed Oscuro]

I must disagree with a "famiclone", as this does not accept Famicom or famiclone carts , instead this was sold along with Sachen Manual + poster with all realeased Sachen carts sofar.

I believe the cart that came along with this was Jovial Race.

I would still like to stick with Sachen Nes console ;)

mrjones

You said it takes NES carts--while it's not a Famicom, I think the term "Famiclone" isn't too far off. I would call it a "Pirate NES."

[mrjones2]

I have thought this many times , and as there are various options of Scahen carts ( were they "pirated" or are they legal ), why did they wasted time on producing this console for playing ( obviously ) Sachen carts...the controllers are a rip-off from Snes, is that why they did not openly marketed this console ever ?

The Q-boy from Sachen is obviously produced 4-6 later than this machine ( yes, it's a Famiclone ), this may have seen it's birth somewhere 1992, who knows ?

mrjones

[hydr0x]

I must disagree with a "famiclone", as this does not accept Famicom or famiclone carts , instead this was sold along with Sachen Manual + poster with all realeased Sachen carts sofar.

I believe the cart that came along with this was Jovial Race.

I would still like to stick with Sachen Nes console

mrjones

You said it takes NES carts--while it's not a Famicom, I think the term "Famiclone" isn't too far off. I would call it a "Pirate NES."

famiclone is not only a term for famicom-compatible consoles, also for nes-compatible, the only reason they are all called famiclone is that 99% of those pirates are hk/asian consoles so they take famicom carts, but a nes pirate is a nes pirate, no matter if sachen or whoever made it, even if sega made one it would be a pirate

[norkusa]

You said it takes NES carts--while it's not a Famicom, I think the term "Famiclone" isn't too far off. I would call it a "Pirate NES."

Exactly! If this Sachen system is a pirate NES, then why aren't the games that were made for it considered pirate? Because they have an American patent and a few copyrights on their games? Bullshit.

[Ed Oscuro]

You said it takes NES carts--while it's not a Famicom, I think the term "Famiclone" isn't too far off. I would call it a "Pirate NES."

Exactly! If this Sachen system is a pirate NES, then why aren't the games that were made for it considered pirate? Because they have an American patent and a few copyrights on their games? Bullshit.

So, wait a second...are we in agreement or no? (I hasten to add that I haven't stated an opinion on whether Sachen games are pirates or not--I'd say unlicensed myself)

[jonjandran]

Isn't there a difference in " pirate " and " unlicensed " ?

Pirate is a cart with games on it that aren't theirs to release. Like a 110-n-1 cart with stolen Mario games.

Unlicensed carts have unique games on them , not stolen games, made by a company that isn't paying a licensing fee to Nintendo (sega , whoever).

[hydr0x]

Isn't there a difference in " pirate " and " unlicensed " ?

Pirate is a cart with games on it that aren't theirs to release. Like a 110-n-1 cart with stolen Mario games.

Unlicensed carts have unique games on them , not stolen games, made by a company that isn't paying a licensing fee to Nintendo (sega , whoever).

EXACTLY, that's why the console itself IS a pirate (it is an illegal copy of the system) and the games aren't, as they are not stolen from somewhere

[jonjandran]

Exactly! If this Sachen system is a pirate NES, then why aren't the games that were made for it considered pirate?

If they didn't use the NES bios is it considered Pirate ?
Bear in mind I'm asking , not raising a debate. I have no idea if they did or not. I just thought it was like an Emulator, only illegal if you use the bios and reverse engineer from there.

[jonjandran]

EXACTLY, that's why the console itself IS a pirate (it is an illegal copy of the system) and the games aren't, as they are not stolen from somewhere

This makes perfect sense to me UNLESS the games have the NES bios in them in order for them to run on a NES system. Because the NES bios is copywrited.

[hydr0x]

Exactly! If this Sachen system is a pirate NES, then why aren't the games that were made for it considered pirate?

If they didn't use the NES bios is it considered Pirate ?
Bear in mind I'm asking , not raising a debate. I have no idea if they did or not. I just thought it was like an Emulator, only illegal if you use the bios and reverse engineer from there.

technically you're totally right, if they did not use a single part that is patented by nintendo than it's not a real pirate, not sure what it is then, if it allows playing nes games than it is at least unlicensed though

[Dr. Morbis]

Regardless of whether or not they reverse engineered a NES to get the NES bios, it is a pirate console if it uses NES technology without Nintendo's authorization. Since it plays both Sachen carts, and NES carts, it OBVIOUSLY uses NES technology. It is therefore clone (like Coleco's Atari 2600 adaptor) and NOT a unique console.

Sachen, as a company, released both pirated and original games. Many games, while the programming is 'original', were CLEARLY inspired by other licensed games. If Sachen were to release many of these 'inspired' games in the US, they would most certainly have been taken to court. As such, calling such games 'original' is a fallacy. I think the fact that Sachen released ANY pirated games, automatically includes them in the 'pirate company' category, notwithstanding the fact that they did program many unique/original games 'in house'.

[jonjandran]

Regardless of whether or not they reverse engineered a NES to get the NES bios, it is a pirate console if it uses NES technology without Nintendo's authorization. Since it plays both Sachen carts, and NES carts, it OBVIOUSLY uses NES technology.

The Bios is the only "technology " that Nintendo could patent and or copyright. All the chips , resistors , pots, etc , were standard parts. So technically if I can build a device that uses standars parts and runs NES games, I can . Right ?
Isn't it the same as anybody can build a dvd player, vcr , etc. Wasn't that the issue when IBM sued everyone for their IBM clones. And it was determined that since it was standard parts anyone could build an IBM clone.
Of course I could be totally wrong....

[Ed Oscuro]

The issue with IBM was being PC-compatible. I don't know exactly what happened there, but it seems that their patents and the PC format were ruled to be separate things.

Were they ripping off any Nintendo patents? I think they were violating design patents, but that would really have to be something such as copying the NES cart's shape (and somebody who knows their Sachen will have to tell me if that's so or not). Possibly somebody's patent on the hardware scrolling chip or whatever it is that allows that as well--it's separate of the CPU--so I have been lead to believe.