Turbo Grafx/Duo Mods. What kind of demand is there?

[D-Lite]

First off, yep, I'm new to this site, but I've been around for a while. eBay'ers (especially Turbo Grafx folk) may know me as dragsy. TNL, Gamesx.com'ers, and Neo-Geo.com'ers know me as D-Lite too. Hello everyone.

I did a bit of looking around here and it seems there is little discussion of the Turbo/PCE and modifying the console to play both US and Japanese HuCards. My question is if this is something people don't believe in, frown upon, or just don't know about. I myself do the mod and know some others that do it as well, but never see anyone posting the service or modded systems (which I may in the future).

What's your take on it?

[digitalpress]

I'm not sure what the demand is, exactly, but I do know that it sounds interesting and useful and that I'd like more details.

"For everyone else" of course, because I'm pretty much covered on this already. Is it a physical switch mod? How much does it cost? How does it work? Can I pay for the console and the mod at once (because I don't own one)? Will it also allow me to play the CD games? These questions and more! await you.

Welcome to the forums

[D-Lite]

Well, the story is that the only real difference between the US Turbo Grafx and Japanese PC Engine HuCard is the middle 8 pins (more specifically pins 15-17 and 19-23). They are flipped between the 2 regions. To modify a single console to play both US and Japanese HuCards (CDs are not region specific on the Duo or CD add-ons), you need to do a hardware mod (not a chip) to actually physically swap the 8 contacts. One way (and the most straight-forward way) is to use an 8-pole switch that does it for you when you push it. So, if the button is out you get US mode and if the button is in you get Japanese mode. The main utility of the switch is to give US gamers the ability to play the 1000 or so PC Engine games on their own hardware. I use a nice round push-button switch to do the job, the total install of which (including prepping the switch and case and whatnot) is about 1.5 to 2 hours, and 40 solder points.

The cool thing about the modification is that it works on all Turbo or PCE hardware, including the SuperGrafx and all Duo units. So you can use a Duo (either US or Japanese) for everything including US and Japanese HuCards and Super CDs, only excluding the 5 SuperGrafx games. Even a modded US Turbo Grafx with the CD add-on can use the Japanese Super System 3.0 card to allow play of the SuperCDs. Even the Arcade Cards work with the modded US systems.

This is what the switch looks like on a US Turbo Grafx that I recently sold:


And on a Turbo Duo (upper left corner pic = switch is on back of Duo units):


To do a mod for someone usually costs about $50 plus shipping. I do have systems ready to go if someone doesn't own the system as well. But I'll get into that more in the Sales forums when I eventually post about the mod.

And thanks for the welcome, Joe!

[esquire]

To do a mod for someone usually costs about $50 plus shipping. I do have systems ready to go if someone doesn't own the system as well.

I am an avid TG16 and PC-Engine collector. I have always stayed away from the external adapters such as the kisado adapter. My question would be, why even bother modding the unit when you can pick up a Core Grafx sytem fairly cheap for about the same price it costs to mod a TG16 and even less than the adapters that usually sell for $75? I guess I just would rather leave my consoles intact rather than risk any damage to them. But if you know what you are doing and just doing it so you can have your own special system then I think thats great.

[omnedon]

I want to do my spare TG16. I've done all manner of mods, and am very familiar with the procedure's instructions.

I'm just having a hell of a time finding an eight pole switch! I've been to some serious local electronics component places, and they all look at me funny when I say I want an eight pole switch.

Where can I get some?

(this 'may' belong in the Restoration Society)

[Gamereviewgod]

Is there an S-video mod for the Duo? That's one I'd love to have done.

[maxlords]

To do a mod for someone usually costs about $50 plus shipping. I do have systems ready to go if someone doesn't own the system as well.

I am an avid TG16 and PC-Engine collector. I have always stayed away from the external adapters such as the kisado adapter. My question would be, why even bother modding the unit when you can pick up a Core Grafx sytem fairly cheap for about the same price it costs to mod a TG16 and even less than the adapters that usually sell for $75? I guess I just would rather leave my consoles intact rather than risk any damage to them. But if you know what you are doing and just doing it so you can have your own special system then I think thats great.

Lately, Coregrafx systems have been going for $50-75 each. They're getting to be in higher and higher demand over the last 6 months and the prices of huCards are coming down, so between the two, it's as much or more cost effective to get the mod done than to buy the extra system (and then try and find a bloody place for it in the overstuffed entertainment center!). D-Lite does damned good work...no risk of system damage here. That's the main reason you go with modders like him, they know what they're doing. Do it yourself, uneducated, risk damage. Pay $60 or so....it's perfect and easy to use...no worries, and saves space in the entertainment center. If I didn't already have a convertor and a Duo from each region, I'd get mine modded. As it is, I've been considering an S-Video mod to my Duo....fairly expensive....but so nice!

@ Gamereviewgod.... yup, but the parts are NOT cheap!

[LazingBlazers]

Hey D, what's the turn-around time if I send you a system?

[D-Lite]

Hey D, what's the turn-around time if I send you a system?

Hey, it's one of my favorite eBay sellers!
I can do the mod the day I receive the system and have it out Priority the next day. If you send me just a console (no AV/AC etc that weigh a ton), the total is usually $60 insured and tracked priority mail.

Regarding the getting a Core Grafx thing, it is cheaper to do the mod than have a US Turbo Duo and a Core Grafx. And since you can't play Arcade Card discs on the US system (need a Japanese HuCard slot), you can't play those games. You could get a Japanese Duo (or Duo-R or Duo-RX) and use a US TG16, but the Japanese Duo's are expensive to ship since most come from Japan, so price works out about same.

Oh, and regards to S-Video mods, yes, they're possible, and I'm looking into doing them soon (as Nate/maxlords was saying, he's familiar with my work from the Neo-Geo.com site posts I've had). Nate, looks like I can do the S-Video cheaper than originally thought! Have to work on it though. Problem is I don't have a test TV at the moment!

[hu6800]

First off, yep, I'm new to this site, but I've been around for a while. eBay'ers (especially Turbo Grafx folk) may know me as dragsy. TNL, Gamesx.com'ers, and Neo-Geo.com'ers know me as D-Lite too. Hello everyone.

I did a bit of looking around here and it seems there is little discussion of the Turbo/PCE and modifying the console to play both US and Japanese HuCards. My question is if this is something people don't believe in, frown upon, or just don't know about. I myself do the mod and know some others that do it as well, but never see anyone posting the service or modded systems (which I may in the future).

What's your take on it?

whats to know?
you opened it and added grounded out one single pin on the chip.

I sold off most of my american units but i still have my pcengine/cdrom and pcengine LT (not modded) so i have to use the converter to play
american carts.

BTW i would offer this service for free or provide a walkthrough
for anybody that needed it.
Ive done the mod 11 times myself
and it will come in handy if you own an import system and want to play
american carts with the use of a converter.

the mod requires one single wire , solder and soldering iron.
you will need a game bit to open the unit.

[D-Lite]

First off, yep, I'm new to this site, but I've been around for a while. eBay'ers (especially Turbo Grafx folk) may know me as dragsy. TNL, Gamesx.com'ers, and Neo-Geo.com'ers know me as D-Lite too. Hello everyone.

I did a bit of looking around here and it seems there is little discussion of the Turbo/PCE and modifying the console to play both US and Japanese HuCards. My question is if this is something people don't believe in, frown upon, or just don't know about. I myself do the mod and know some others that do it as well, but never see anyone posting the service or modded systems (which I may in the future).

What's your take on it?

whats to know?
you opened it and added grounded out one single pin on the chip.

I sold off most of my american units but i still have my pcengine/cdrom and pcengine LT (not modded) so i have to use the converter to play
american carts.

BTW i would offer this service for free or provide a walkthrough
for anybody that needed it.
Ive done the mod 11 times myself
and it will come in handy if you own an import system and want to play
american carts with the use of a converter.

the mod requires one single wire , solder and soldering iron.
you will need a game bit to open the unit.

Hm, seems you don't understand what I'm talking about. I'm talking about modding the HuCard slot to accept both US and Japanese HuCards WITHOUT the need for the external adapter such as the Kisado, Purple Barney, or diving board type converters. What you are speaking of is the pin 29 mod for Japanese models. For those who don't know, to play US HuCards on a Japanese unit, with or without my mod, requires you to defeat the one-way region protection that was on Japanese systems. This involves taking pin #29 on the HuC6280 chip, desoldering it from the board and grounding it.

With the single pin mod that hu6800 speaks of, you STILL need to use a Kisado or related adapter. For everyone here, http://www.geocities.com/duo_r@sbcgl...ch.install.txt shows what I'm talking about for the mod and the effort involved in it.

hu6800, don't the "mods" you're speaking of require the use of an external adapter? I think you should clarify before accusing me of blowing the difficulty out of proportion. Yeah, I've been on this site less than one day, but I ain't no n00b, dude.

Joe and Nate, you guys are aware of the difference, yes/no?

[maxlords]

Yeah, hu was talking about a single wire switch to allow a Jp system to use a convertor. This is a totally different mod, far more complicated, and lets you play games with NO convertor. Much better if you need space or can't afford (or FIND) a convertor.

[hu6800]

First off, yep, I'm new to this site, but I've been around for a while. eBay'ers (especially Turbo Grafx folk) may know me as dragsy. TNL, Gamesx.com'ers, and Neo-Geo.com'ers know me as D-Lite too. Hello everyone.

I did a bit of looking around here and it seems there is little discussion of the Turbo/PCE and modifying the console to play both US and Japanese HuCards. My question is if this is something people don't believe in, frown upon, or just don't know about. I myself do the mod and know some others that do it as well, but never see anyone posting the service or modded systems (which I may in the future).

What's your take on it?

whats to know?
you opened it and added grounded out one single pin on the chip.

I sold off most of my american units but i still have my pcengine/cdrom and pcengine LT (not modded) so i have to use the converter to play
american carts.

BTW i would offer this service for free or provide a walkthrough
for anybody that needed it.
Ive done the mod 11 times myself
and it will come in handy if you own an import system and want to play
american carts with the use of a converter.

the mod requires one single wire , solder and soldering iron.
you will need a game bit to open the unit.

Hm, seems you don't understand what I'm talking about. I'm talking about modding the HuCard slot to accept both US and Japanese HuCards WITHOUT the need for the external adapter such as the Kisado, Purple Barney, or diving board type converters. What you are speaking of is the pin 29 mod for Japanese models. For those who don't know, to play US HuCards on a Japanese unit, with or without my mod, requires you to defeat the one-way region protection that was on Japanese systems. This involves taking pin #29 on the HuC6280 chip, desoldering it from the board and grounding it.

With the single pin mod that hu6800 speaks of, you STILL need to use a Kisado or related adapter. For everyone here, http://www.geocities.com/duo_r@sbcgl...ch.install.txt shows what I'm talking about for the mod and the effort involved in it.

hu6800, don't the "mods" you're speaking of require the use of an external adapter? I think you should clarify before accusing me of blowing the difficulty out of proportion. Yeah, I've been on this site less than one day, but I ain't no n00b, dude.

Joe and Nate, you guys are aware of the difference, yes/no?

Well...... Nate seen my setup.
and i know of the mod you speak of because ive done one
before.. But how much do you think your LT is gonna be worth
after its all hacked and has a switch on the side?
I would do the wire mod to my LT , but the switch id have to pass on.
plus if i was to pay you to mod my LT and you screwed it up..
id want about $600 at least to replace it.
Its my main TG system.
the switch in the diagram your showing is like 5 years old.
i think thats the one i used to do my stackset im not sure
but i remember practicing on junk TG16's
before i hit it good on my main set.
Talkin bout id still install the switch for free...
you just have to buy the parts and pay for the shipping and understand
that the value of the system is gonna drop instantly once you cut and solder
all those wires for the switch.

I will admit ,, the switch is difficult to put in if your not good with your hands and a soldering iron.

[D-Lite]

First off, yep, I'm new to this site, but I've been around for a while. eBay'ers (especially Turbo Grafx folk) may know me as dragsy. TNL, Gamesx.com'ers, and Neo-Geo.com'ers know me as D-Lite too. Hello everyone.

I did a bit of looking around here and it seems there is little discussion of the Turbo/PCE and modifying the console to play both US and Japanese HuCards. My question is if this is something people don't believe in, frown upon, or just don't know about. I myself do the mod and know some others that do it as well, but never see anyone posting the service or modded systems (which I may in the future).

What's your take on it?

whats to know?
you opened it and added grounded out one single pin on the chip.

I sold off most of my american units but i still have my pcengine/cdrom and pcengine LT (not modded) so i have to use the converter to play
american carts.

BTW i would offer this service for free or provide a walkthrough
for anybody that needed it.
Ive done the mod 11 times myself
and it will come in handy if you own an import system and want to play
american carts with the use of a converter.

the mod requires one single wire , solder and soldering iron.
you will need a game bit to open the unit.

Hm, seems you don't understand what I'm talking about. I'm talking about modding the HuCard slot to accept both US and Japanese HuCards WITHOUT the need for the external adapter such as the Kisado, Purple Barney, or diving board type converters. What you are speaking of is the pin 29 mod for Japanese models. For those who don't know, to play US HuCards on a Japanese unit, with or without my mod, requires you to defeat the one-way region protection that was on Japanese systems. This involves taking pin #29 on the HuC6280 chip, desoldering it from the board and grounding it.

With the single pin mod that hu6800 speaks of, you STILL need to use a Kisado or related adapter. For everyone here, http://www.geocities.com/duo_r@sbcgl...ch.install.txt shows what I'm talking about for the mod and the effort involved in it.

hu6800, don't the "mods" you're speaking of require the use of an external adapter? I think you should clarify before accusing me of blowing the difficulty out of proportion. Yeah, I've been on this site less than one day, but I ain't no n00b, dude.

Joe and Nate, you guys are aware of the difference, yes/no?

Well...... Nate seen my setup.
and i know of the mod you speak of because ive done one
before.. But how much do you think your LT is gonna be worth
after its all hacked and has a switch on the side?
I would do the wire mod to my LT , but the switch id have to pass on.
plus if i was to pay you to mod my LT and you screwed it up..
id want about $600 at least to replace it.
Its my main TG system.
the switch in the diagram your showing is like 5 years old.
i think thats the one i used to do my stackset im not sure
but i remember practicing on junk TG16's
before i hit it good on my main set.
Talkin bout id still install the switch for free...
you just have to buy the parts and pay for the shipping and understand
that the value of the system is gonna drop instantly once you cut and solder
all those wires for the switch.

I will admit ,, the switch is difficult to put in if your not good with your hands and a soldering iron.

I would never mod an LT. Didn't even mention doing one of those since the price of screwing up is very high. But I did mod SuperGrafx systems before. Actually, the chance of screwing up a pin 29 mod is MUCH higher than the HuCard slot since that pin is so damn small and thin it's easy to snap it off.

Since I haven't even posted a thread here selling the mod, I haven't really set the price I'd charge, but I don't make much on it. Yes, the switch I have is not straight from the factory, but it's new and a hell of a lot better built than the other slide switches you'll find. Easily. The mod takes about 2 hours and I know what I'm doing (done about 30 of these so far). Plus I guarantee the system to work after it's done. Pretty much if you don't get a little something for the effort (and we're talking like $20-30 max), it's not worth the time and more importantly the risk to do the mod.

If people are concerned about the value of there system, they should buy anything modded. The reason to do a mod like this, as Nate said earlier, is to have a great gamer's console that's all in one and works well for cheaper than the sum of the parts.

I find that no matter where this topic comes up, about mods in general, there's always some dissention about the price, the utility, etc. Basically, like the thread reads in the title, I'm just looking to see what demand is.

[larsoncc]

I'd find value in a new-style Kisado converter. Essentially, I'm in the camp that doesn't like the idea of physically modding the system, when an alternative is available.

It changes the look, it poses risks (including long term risks), and as our systems become antiques (a mere 30 years away!) a modded system may be less desireable, as compatibility would be less of a concern compared to preservation. After all - if you want a system to do "everything", then emulate!

I've studied the manufacture of a few of these converters (Kisado, etc), and the real obstacle is finding the connector, or making a new connector. None of the engineering catalogs have the exact connector any more, so a "good enough" connector might be necessary.

The rest of the converter is as easy as a PCB with edge connection. And that can be manufactured for a song.

[Bratwurst]

I happen to have a spare TG-16 deck that doesn't work (and it's not as simple as a burnt fuse). Is there a service somewhere that uses the connectors of dead consoles for a converter, or plans I could use to make one myself?

[maxlords]

The Duo is a special case though. Unlike other systems, the convertors are not only prohibitively expensive, but no company in the world now makes a connector that will work for a new style Kisado. There aren't any more and there probably won't be. Period. If you don't like it, buy two systems, but for those of you who can't afford two systems, this is an EXCELLENT alternative. With the sheer number of Duos out there, especially Jp Duo, Duo-R, and Duo-RXs, they're probably never going to be much more expensive than they are now. For a TG16, they're DIRT common...modding them will not lose you any value ever. No question there. If you have MIB ones...well....that's entirely different and you shouldn't bother anyway.

This is for the average gamer who wants to play imports. Period. It's a hard mod, and well worth the money, and I don't know why you people are going off on D-Lite like this. And many of us don't do emulation at all....I personally HATE playing emulated games. I play on a console or not at all, and I know that opinion is shared by many people here. If you can afford a convertor....more power to you. If you can't, and can't afford the spare or cost of two systems (which is about 1/3 of Duo/Tg16 owners), then this mod is very much for you. On the Duo, it's very unobtrusive, and typically, modded systems sell for more than unmodded for systems like the Duo and the Neo Geo AES, unlike normal systems that are modded.

If you're interested, say it people...don't get all catty! If you don't want it....don't say anything or just say you're not interested!

I'd find value in a new-style Kisado converter. Essentially, I'm in the camp that doesn't like the idea of physically modding the system, when an alternative is available.

It changes the look, it poses risks (including long term risks), and as our systems become antiques (a mere 30 years away!) a modded system may be less desireable, as compatibility would be less of a concern compared to preservation. After all - if you want a system to do "everything", then emulate!

I've studied the manufacture of a few of these converters (Kisado, etc), and the real obstacle is finding the connector, or making a new connector. None of the engineering catalogs have the exact connector any more, so a "good enough" connector might be necessary.

The rest of the converter is as easy as a PCB with edge connection. And that can be manufactured for a song.

[D-Lite]

Nate hit the nail on the head. If you're worried about the collectability of your system, then don't mod it at all, of course. But if you want a solution to play games, then a mod is for you. The cost of a Kisado is usually $100 or more and if the thing moves a bit in the slot, then your system freezes.

I don't know how many people are familiar with the most recent adapter, the "Mirai" adapter from Australia, sold through TZD and Telegames. If you look at it, it's obviously a part that works well enough, but is oversized. Apparently, this new adapter has issues as well, in particular with the Arcade Cards. Sounds easy enough to make new adapters, but how many of the existing adapters work well? Exactly one, the Kisado. Yes, the others work OK, but not consistently. Why would anyone want to produce a new adapter and risk it bombing like the Mirai is currently doing?

Mods are really for the gamer or the person who has everything. A cheap Turbo Grafx will cost you $20. So you can have your collectable one all boxed and nice and also a modded gamer deck for a reasonable price. Most of the people I've sold to are gamers and love the things.

Speaking of emulation, what is the feeling here at digital press? Don't ask, don't tell?

Oh, the other mod that I'd like to get opinions on is the S-Video mod which has come up briefly here. I have the ability to do it (maybe even RGB), so I'm curious if people feel that's worthwhile. Also RCA jacks directly on a Turbo to avoid going through the wobbly AV cable. There ain't no adapter that gives S-Video, so this should be an interesting discussion. What do people think that would be worth? Minimum cost to do that mod for parts alone is approximately $40 (yep Nate, think I can get parts that cheap! No JROK converter).

[maxlords]

I'd be interested in the S-Video Duo mod myself! Don't know if I can afford it (and shipping to and back) right now, but I'd definitely be interested if you get it nailed down!

[SoulBlazer]

Emulation is supported here, for the most part. Many people here are collectors are not gamers, of course, and prefer to have all the systems. For gamers like myself, though, and people who have very little money, emulation is the way to go. I have a TG emulator, for example, which I use when I feel like playing the games.

As long as the system and games are no longer made and you don't give direct links, the mods here are cool about it. Heck, we have a huge thread going on rightnow about GBA Flash Carts.

I personaly myself have all my systems emulated, with the actual controllers hooked up to my computer system. Less money, less hassle, and I've found VERY few games from the old days I actually like enough to want to own (and those I have found I do buy.)

In short, you won't find anyone here bashing emulation and you can freely talk about it but don't except to get much support except from me and a few others.