Interest Check: Anyone interested in NES cart reproductions

[leonk]

As an avid NES collector and gamer, I've noticed a few games that were never released (and never will be) which I really enjoy playing using an emulator, but would love to play on my big TV.

So I decided to recreate these carts.

At this time, I've created:

- Time Diver: Eon Man
- Robocop Vs the Terminator
- Solar Wars

My goal is to recreate every available cart for my own personal collection (Drac's Night out, Hero Quest, Sweet Home, and maybe even California Raisins + many others).

The only thing that surprised me was the cost and time involved. The EPROM burner and EPROM erasers alone cost a few hundred dollars, the EPROMS themselves are pricy as well as the the donor boards.

I've also figured it takes me a good 2-3 hours to make a cart. (Time to remove ROMs, clean PCBs, burn new EPROMs, solder eproms, run new traces and clean cart from old donor label + test cart).

Is anyone interested in any reporductions??

My current carts have the EPROMs socketed, but the final carts will have the EPROMs soldered to the board. This will allow the cart to close properly and not require any modifications to the system/case to fit. It will also keep the EPROMs protected. I might go as far as printing labels for the cart. But the label will have the words (2004 Reproduction) on it to stop people from selling on eBay for crazy prices.

The carts will work in any NTSC (USA/Canada) system.

Let me know what you think or PM for more info.

LK
(leonki@yahoo.com)

[jerkov]

I think it's an awesome idea. The problem is, I don't think it'd be worth $50+ a cart to me. If there was a way to make them cheaper, I'd be all over it in a heartbeat, but it just seems to pricey to be worth it. However, it'd be damn cool to have a Sweet Home or Earthbound Zero cart laying around.

The other problem is that we all know that EPROMs don't last forever....which means that eventually (what, 10-15 years?) a new one will have to be burned and put into the cartridge, which will drive prices up even more. I guess that only applies if you're still interested in the game.

[Querjek]

I think that that is a great idea too, except it doesn't seem like very many people would pay $50 for one game on one cart. Why not make a multicart with protos and unreleased released games and sell that for $50? I'm sure you'd get tons of sales from us DPers.

[Bratwurst]

The other problem is that we all know that EPROMs don't last forever....which means that eventually (what, 10-15 years?) a new one will have to be burned and put into the cartridge, which will drive prices up even more. I guess that only applies if you're still interested in the game.

Longer than that, more like 20-30 years in most cases. Or you could use another kind of chip, I'm going to make batches for myself with PLCC one-shots which will never bitrot, but that will take so much time rewiring that I'd be crazy to try and sell them, and the buyer'd be crazy trying to compensate my effort.

What leonk is charging for (and not asking for donors) is a good price imo.

[Goblin]

Let me start off by saying good luck with the venture, and hopefully you can make it work. Although I caution you that it might be a tough sell, as the other posts have already shown. I think you have nailed the key factors down, it takes between 2-3 hours to make a cart and the maximum you can expect to sell a cart for is $60-75. EPROM programmers are not cheap and I’d only recommend getting this going if you already have one, otherwise you probably won’t make enough to cover the capital investment.

I’ve sold and/or traded a number of repro-carts in the past years and after while it becomes a chore. I’ve had one remaining Solar Wars cartridge in my trade box for over a year. Every few months I’ll attempt to trade or sell it, and I usually get a rush of PMs. People are initially interested and excited, but when it comes down to actually shelling out the cash they tend to back off. Usually a bunch of emails are exchanged and I ultimately need to write long messages trying to explain and educate what it is there are buying. (No it is not a prototype, yes I made it myself, no you don’t get a manual, no I won’t sell it any cheaper as supplies alone cost me $20-25.) Because not a lot of these exist at first people get excited and then they back off as they begin to think they might be overpaying.

The vast majority of the gaming population will not want to pay that price for a repro. Especially when they see repro titles for other systems (like the 2600) going for $12, and new releases with nice labels, boxes, and manuals going for $40. (Many people don’t understand the differences in construction, and the fact that NES repros must be matched up with specific mapper chips). I could conceivably sell my copy of solar wars tomorrow if I dropped the price, but knowing the level of effort it took to make it I’d rather hold out then sell it cheaply.

My recommendation is to make all the cartridges you want for yourself. It can be a nice diversion and a good way to increase your collection with unique items for very little money. Then after you are done making your own, see if you have any desire to make more. Chances are at 2 hours apiece you will be burned out. If you are still into it at that time, then chances are you’ll have the process down to 1.5 hours, and can possibly make it worth your while. I find the task to get tedious after a while, and to do that for the equivalent of $20/hour isn’t worth spending my precious free time on. Just my 2 cents, but I do wish you luck. Feel free to contact me if you have any specific questions.

[Bratwurst]

I think that that is a great idea too, except it doesn't seem like very many people would pay $50 for one game on one cart. Why not make a multicart with protos and unreleased released games and sell that for $50? I'm sure you'd get tons of sales from us DPers.

That would be impossible without implementing a custom board (and bankswitching of some sort), especially not cost effective at that price.

[Necrosaro420]

Just get the eprom burner and forget the eraser if your going to buy fresh eproms. 2-3 hours. Perosonally I dont think its worth 20$/hr work.

[Charlie]

I would be very, very intrested. However, I worry about the cost for you.

If you can do it, then I would be all over it.

[leonk]

Folks,

I'm a software developer my nature, an electronics lover in heart. I already own the EPROM burner and own the EPROM eraser, as well as the professional soldering station.

The EPROM eraser is important because it allows me to play around with the EPROMS without loosing ~12-15$ at a time if I make a mistake!

I enjoy everything to do with electronics, and hence spent the $$$ on getting all the equiptment (it can be used in the future to fix JAMMA boards, other robotic projects I'm working on, etc..)

My initial feelings were to create the carts only for myself. I don't want to make a business out of it. I'm getting married in the first week of July, and my fiancee doesn't want to see me spending hours making these carts.

It's a hobby.. nothing more.

The cost about covers the parts and ~10$ per hour labour. It does not cover the initial cost of the equiptment to me!

It might sounds nuts on my end.. but hey.. it's a hobby..

If anyone is interested, shoot me a PM.. otherwise.. I'll post a picture of the carts in the future as part of my collection. :P

[Daria]

If you think about it $50 is the price of a new next gen game, I don't think it's unreasonable for a home made cart, especially if it's of a game you can't buy.

Unfortunately I don't have the money, but a Chronicle of Radia War, Labyrinth, Just Breed, or Sweet Home cartridge would rock. (:

And something tells me if you did say... a Final Fantasy 2 cart you could probably get some FF fanboys to pay more then $50 and lower the prices of some other less popular reproductions.

Although by selling these games, you kinda piss off the people that translated them in the first place. And I'm sure the guy who bought the one of a kind Earthbound wouldn't appreciate some kid with $50 trying to pass his repo off as the real deal. So it's kinda of a moral thing really.

Personally I'd love to have some of these games in my collection, not because they'd be rare but because I actually loved playing them.

[leonk]

what's the difference between playing the cart on your PC or in your NES?

It's not like I'm selling these on eBay for 350$ per pop telling everyone it's the real thing! These carts will be sold looking like regular carts (there will never be a confusion with the protos) or socketed EPROMS (when you look inside, you'll see the new wire traces, and again.. be able to tell it's a repro).

I've also figured it depends on how you want the repo. Some people might be interested in a closed cart.. others might be interested in socketed EPROMs (so you can switch games??).

Socketed eproms need the cart to be cut.. and a small modification to your NES toaster (the silver bar inside the up/down mech needs to be removed since the cart is too wide).

I need folks to tell me what "format" they want their cart per order.

[leonk]

Oh.. I can also give a discount for people that send me a donor cart.. This will save me time hunting for them in the wild.

[The Collector]

So if i bought one of these, its purely plug and play, right? Put it in my top-loader and turn it on and play? No adapter/converter/weired software/ect?
It that's the case, i'll bite .
And would these be complete, i.e. inst. booklet and box?

[Kamino]

LeonK, if you ever figure out how to repro NWC90 carts, do pm me. Otherwise, i'll be rifting through DP7 later to see what might be horridly rare and expensive enough for this to be worth it.

[Bratwurst]

And would these be complete, i.e. inst. booklet and box?

x_x

[leonk]

I need a short time to create the cart/art.. my current carts are development carts (i.e. EPROMs are socketed, cart is cut and NES system modded to have carts fit).

Once I have a "production" cart ready.. I'll post pics here.

[Querjek]

That sounds good.

I was just thinking, I bet lots of people (Or at least me) would like to have a translated cart of Final Fantasy III since we've never gotten that game in any form released in America in English.

[Goblin]

Make sure you get pre-orders before you make spend a lot of time, because I think the market is smaller than you would think.

After my intial post in this thread I received the following PM regarding the solar wars cart I mentioned being in trade box for some time:

What's it worth to you? I want it!

I responded with the price ($75 - since it uses 2 EEPROMS (~$12/each digikey + 2 hours of my time)), and never got a response. I guess he didn't want it as badly as he thought. Funny as the price was inline with what a few of us said they should sell for so it shouldn't have been a shock.

Anyway my point in relating this story is that I highly doubt forum members will be willing to pay enough to cover your time and supplies. Just make sure you find a way to gauge real interest before jumping in.

[MarioAllStar2600]

I would definatly be intrested. I want sunman, and raisins on cart pretty bad.

[leonk]

I've managed to create the following carts:

Eon Man, Robocop vs Terminator, Earthbound Zero & Sweet Home. I will be working on the other carts as donors come in (want to confirm they're as easy to create).

As far as Solar Wars goes.. it's a great game, but I can see a huge demand for it. The EPROMs are socketed (so the case is cut). You will need to remove the stupid metal bar in your NES toaster (or just play it in your top loader).

First person to PM with 35$ + actual shipping gets Solar Wars!

First person to PM with 40$ + actual shipping gets a socketed Eon Man or socketed Robocop vs Terminator (your choice). You can always add 17.50$ to the total cost and get BOTH! (since the board uses the same EPROMs.. so you can pop one game off and pop eproms for the other).

Any future carts will have all EPROMs soldered to the board (can't interchange). Cost will be:

- 50$ per cart (or 10 games from my NES need list)
- 40$ per cart if you send me the donor!

PM with info on what cart you want, and I can give you the donor info.