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Thread: Manhunt in the dock ...

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    Default Manhunt in the dock ...

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...re/3934277.stm

    Depraved killing blamed on depraved game.

    Of course, there is no way to possibly prove that the game induced the action - but it seems likely that the method was in some way inspired by the game.

    It's a tough issue .. and I certainly wouldn't want to argue it with friends or family of the deceased. But by their reasoning we should also be banning all violent films, music and literature as well .. hmmm.

    Vroomfunkel

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    "The boy had been hit so hard with the hammer he had suffered deep cuts to his head and neck. His head had been fractured in several places."

    How the fuck do people get so sick in the head? I usually don't think games are responsible for violence in people but this one I don't see any other explanation....I hope this boy sits in a cold jail of rape for the rest of his life.

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    No one ever seems to consider that the "obsession" with a violent game was just a symptom...That it was his already violent nature that led him to seek it out.

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    Stefan's mother described Leblanc, who confessed to police moments after the assault, as "inherently evil".
    People are already "inherently evil." The game doesn't help, but can't carry all the blame. People like to have scapegoats, though - it gives them warm fuzzies to think that they would never do such a thing.
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    You dont score/get points in Manhunt.
    "The big things that...nerds like to argue about might not actually matter that much."

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    Default Hmm

    You dont score/get points in Manhunt.
    Well, not as such. But points are merely a method of measuring progress through a game. And you cannot deny that in Manhunt, you progress through the game by committing increasingly gruesome and violent murders.

    Vroomfunkel

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    just another example of a game being used as a scapegoat for the wrong doings of a troubled teen
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    Wow this is the first murder I have ever heard of where someone used a hammer of some kind. What will people start using next? :P Just another senseless murder.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dahne
    No one ever seems to consider that the "obsession" with a violent game was just a symptom...That it was his already violent nature that led him to seek it out.
    Where are parents these days? It was they who should have been paying more attention to their son, watching what he was interested in and how he reacted to it. It was they who should have been aware of the tendencies of their son and to have provided an environment appropriate so that their son would not be prone to doing exactly this sort of thing.

    The kid was just 17, still not an adult, still a ward of his parents. I, for one, cannot believe that he had not displayed any other kind of symptom of the violence that was unleashed on his victim at any time previous. If he was known to be 'obsessed' with the game, their had to be other signs. How did others know of his obsession? There had to be signs.

    Wow this is the first murder I have ever heard of where someone used a hammer of some kind. What will people start using next? Just another senseless murder.
    Here again. We have so many people foolishly trying to legislate control over everything from guns to videogames to movies to pictures on candy bars as if controlling things will somehow control people. That's just not how it works. To those with serious mental incapacities anything can become perverted into a cause and anything can be converted into a tool for the unthinkable.

    Better control of the household is the key. But, no one wants to admit that. We are so deluded into thinking that our liberal and democratic ways are so superior to good old-fashioned discipline and structure, but look what has happened. This kid was probably being brought up by a couple of laid back folks who let him have whatever he wanted and never checked up on him for fear of "hurting his creative side." Well, folks, I think killing a 14-year-old kid with a hammer and a knife in the park is pretty damned creative, don't you?

    Heck, the kid probably got the game as a gift, or he bought it himself. Parents that don't care what their kids are doing are like that, they let them have anything so long as the kid stays out of their way. Well, that kid is out of everybody's way, for a bit anyways. Then again, this B.S. defense of "The Game Made Me Do It" might just work with the liberal fools that are running our courts into the ground and he'll be free in a little under a year to go out and kill somebody else by eating them up and then blaming his whole behavior on PacMan.

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    Btw, all copies of Manhunt were confiscated in Germany a couple of days ago. Don't know if that's the right way to handle this situation ...
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    THE Question is thast this game is rated


    18+

    it was his parents fault he owned it in the first place

    END OF DISCUSSION

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    its a good point enigma, but are you saying youve never played a game when you were too young for it?
    its just people covering up teenage problems with games.. usual the old loosers in the goverment who cant play them grade them as destructive to the mind etc... its jsut some pathetic politions dirty work...

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    Default ..

    UPDATE

    Manhunt pulled from shelves of several major UK retailers

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...re/3936597.stm

    I do find it interesting how the people who are most critical of those who suggest a connection between violent games and violent behaviour frequently make equally unsupported assertions to the contrary!

    Example:

    We have so many people foolishly trying to legislate control over everything from guns to videogames to movies to pictures on candy bars as if controlling things will somehow control people. That's just not how it works. To those with serious mental incapacities anything can become perverted into a cause and anything can be converted into a tool for the unthinkable.
    Nice theory. Evidence? Not needed, it seems. As the article above mentions, little or no research has been done into the long-term effects of playing such games - so let's not pretend that we "know" that they had no influence in this instance any more than others might be sure that they were the cause.

    Vroomfunkel

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    Default Re: ..

    We have so many people foolishly trying to legislate control over everything from guns to videogames to movies to pictures on candy bars as if controlling things will somehow control people. That's just not how it works. To those with serious mental incapacities anything can become perverted into a cause and anything can be converted into a tool for the unthinkable.
    Nice theory. Evidence? Not needed, it seems. As the article above mentions, little or no research has been done into the long-term effects of playing such games - so let's not pretend that we "know" that they had no influence in this instance any more than others might be sure that they were the cause.

    Vroomfunkel[/quote]

    I think you missed my point. I never stated that the game had NOTHING to do with the actions of this young man, my point was that it NOT JUST the game that caused this to happen. Responsible parents would have seen and taken action on ALL of the reasons why this kid did what he did, including the game.

    In short, maybe I was wrong to not state clearly that I am of the opinion that games ALONE are the reason for the rise in violent acts in aour society. Banning games altogether is not the answer as games ALONE do not necessarily lead to violence. Responsible actions by those in charge of minors is EQUALLY important.

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    You know its easy to blame video games because most parents do not understand them. But I know if my kid got obsessed with any one thing I would be worried. If everyday my kid came home and wanted to play super Mario brothers , and that is all he talked about even when he was not playing it , at some point I would ask him to take a break from playing the game. Maybe go outside or even try playing a different game. And if he refused then I would take it away from him until he forgot about it. I am sure he would find something else to entertain himself.

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    OK Mr. GM .. perhaps I misread you .. but the generic point I was making is valid, I think. Many people - especially gamers (of which I am one) - are reluctant to even consider the possiblity that maybe there is a connection, possibly even a strong connection, between violence in video games and violence in real life.

    I'm not suggesting that if there is a link, that banning the game would necessarily solve the problem. But perhaps it might reduce the problem? If it could be shown that this was the case, would banning these sort of games be a reasonable thing to do?

    It's a toughie .. I have played and quite enjoyed violent games, such as GTA3 and State of Emergency. However I don't think I would have lost a great deal from my life if I could not have played them. And compared to the value of even a single human life, the fact that I might have missed out on a little fun does not rank very highly.

    I am not saying here that banning violent games definitely would save lives .. only that if it could be shown that banning ultra-violent games did have a positive effect, then I can't think of a reason why I would not support that ban.

    And of course responsible care of minors is important - but then nobody is denying that. The Entertainment and Leisure Software Publishers' Association, on the other hand, can't wait to deny any possiblity of a connection
    ... we reject any suggestion or association between the tragic events and the sale of the video game Manhunt.
    This is the perfect illustration of my first point! How can they 'reject any suggestion' of a link? It's a palpably absurd thing to say.

    The fact is, there are many programmes and initiatives to try to address the issue proper care for minors. The question is, is there anything else that could be done? And if so, why not do it?

    Vroomfunkel

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    This kid was nuts. His parents didn't give a shit about him, and left him to deal with his own problems. If he had a parent there who talked to him and tried to help him through his problems the other kid may be alive today.
    They just need to enforce the rating system. If they had penalties against shops for selling them to minors then this wouldn't be an issue.


    Manhunt will be a future rarity in Europe.
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    Default right ...

    Once again, glad to see that you have some firm evidence for your claim that

    They just need to enforce the rating system. If they had penalties against shops for selling them to minors then this wouldn't be an issue.
    Yes, the kid was nuts. Yes, it is possible his parents did not perform a proper duty of care towards him. And no matter how much you try, there will also be children in this kind of situation in our society. So why not do what we can avoid giving them this kind of inspiration?

    And if, by your own theory, enforcing the rating system that prevents children from buying the game would help the situation (I don't necessarily agree that it would, but I am just following your reasoning), surely it is logical that banning the game outright would be even better - because if the game is available at all, kids are always going to be able to get irresponsible adults to buy it for them. If the game is not available, they simply can't get it.

    Yes, I am playing devil's advocate somewhat here, because I don't necessarily think that .. but these are fairly important issues and these easy denials of any connection by games developers and distributors are remarkably similar to the way that tobacco companies will aggressively deny any link between cigarrettes and cancer ... I'd rather at least consider all possiblities, and hear some actual evidence for some of these claims from both sides.

    Vroomfunkel

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    I was listening to this on the radio today at work and I thought hmm here we go again..

    No proof that the game made the guy do what he did.. but yes, people need scapegoats.

    It's annoying how the people putting pen to paper have probably never played Manhunt.. as the victims father says, that he doesnt play the games himself...

    And I mean, look at GTA, when that first came out, people were saying "It encourages kids to joy ride and run people over in cars", now it's tame!! it's the tamest of the tame! just like movies 40 years ago.

    I play violent games and they don't make me a violent person!

    Also if you look at the story on the BBC site, and head over to the sky.com/news site

    There are differences in the story. Mistakes. At one point referred to as "Manhunter", also the BBC story said that ELSPA said that they denied connections to the game, whereas the SKY site, has the correct version IMHO, that ROCKSTAR denid that there were connections to the game.. (i.e. the publisher...)

    Does anyone remember Half Life Blue Shift being banned in Australia? because you could get a gun from a security guard, they said it encouraged people to kill security guards, and could happen in real life....

    To me this just looks like some really screwed up guy from a bad background that did a terrible thing. You've got to sympathise with the victims parents though... terrible...

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    Default .,.

    I think pretty much everything has been banned in Australia I am sure one of the reports I read said that Manhunt had been banned in Oz. I belive Night Trap was also. And several others.

    Like I said, I find it a difficult issue. I am almost as uneasy about Australia's heavy censorship as I am about the UK's minimal controls.

    And, thinking about it, I am pretty sure that most people would support some level of censorship. How many people here would think it OK to release a game that involved a the central character scoring points by committing violent rapes .. or child rapes?

    If anyone thinks that this would be unacceptable, the question is why would we choose to ban that, but not a game that features pre-meditated brutal murder? After all, murder carries a heavier sentence than rape in most countries .. why is the former acceptable in video games and the latter not?

    Vroomfunkel

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