Sony's Cell processor, another dumb idea from Sony?

[Anthony1]

I'm not so sure about Sony's so called "Cell" processor, that they are going to use in the PS3.

I'm not any kind of engineer or anything, and I don't really know much about it, but for some reason, I keep thinking back to all the hype about the so called "emotion engine".


Is this another case of Sony once again trying to re-invent the wheel?


I must say that I used to be a huge fan of Sony. I bought a PS1 the day it came out, on September 9th, 1995. The PS1 was an awesome piece of technology and one of the most logically desinged systems ever. It really was an absolute achievement in the world of video games.

Sure right now the PS1 kinda looks like a big pixelly mess, but back in 1995 and 1996 and even 1997, it was totally awesome.

So when Sony started first talking about the PS2 and the "emotion engine" I was totally excited and all jacked up about it.

In fact, I remember having to sleep in front of Target the day it came out to be able to get one on launch day. But after playing with my new PS2 for a few months, I came to the realization that it was one of the most poorly designed systems in history. To me the games didn't seem that much better than Dreamcast games. Not only that, but Dreamcast games were in 480p and looked super crystal clear on my progressive scan TV, while the PS2 was jaggie city.

I just really feel that the PS2 was a very bad design by the engineers at Sony. So much hype about the "emotion engine" and all that, and then this is the crap that we ended up getting.

Well, after awhile very talented developers finally learned how to squeeze every bit of power out of the PS2, but it was more in spite of the horrible design of the PS2. They had to find a way to make good looking games on the PS2 and they eventually did. But still, we all know that from a pure power standpoint the PS2 pales in comparison to the XBOX and GameCube.

So anyways, that brings me to this so called "Cell" processor. I really don't understand it, and I don't know much about it, but I have a bad feeling about it. To me it sounds like once again, Sony has to do things "their" way and try to be different and bold and everything. They had the "emotion engine" and now they have this "Cell".

Why can't they just make a normal CPU and GPU for their system and make sure that it's powerfull in the "real world" and not in theory.

Maybe I will be proven totally wrong and the "Cell" will just destroy everything in it's path.

I don't know.

I guess we will find out in 2006.

[Anexanhume]

To me, it sounded a lot like the xbox chip. Multiple cores, multi-threaded. The rest was just basically jargonized empty crap.

[Ed Oscuro]

The idea of offloading processing tasks onto other machines makes you sit up and take notice, doesn't it?

Quite a promising system.

[ubersaurus]

Quite frankly, it makes me wonder how the system would work for people without the console hooked up to the net or something to access those other chips.

[Ed Oscuro]

Well enough, really. The PS3 will have - from what I've read - up to 8 Cell processors, and while you need to have more to really get the reported exponential gains in power, that's still going to put out an impressive amount of oomph. While this doesn't quite scale to the number reported for the PS3, it's said that 64 Cell cores (individual CPUs, working together) will perform on a level with 2200 G5s, or 2000 Athlon 64s, so you can imagine the results.

Sony and IBM announced that they'd created a workstation based on the Cell processor tech yesterday, actually...earlier news said they wanted to be selling them in time for Christmas.

[soniko_karuto]

*snip*
level with 2200 G5s, or 2000 Athlon 64s, so you can imagine the results.

*snip*

Take that G5!!!

anyways, it has to be jargon crap, i mean, if it really will work that way, you need 3 things:

1-. A very very very powerful programming team to fully utilize the power.
2-. A very very very very very fast connection to the other ps3's (i mean, you would need at least a gigabit ethernet connection with 0 to no lag).
3-. A lot of crap on your head to believe them. Why the fuck do they say that? look at it this way: what type of game would requiere that ps3's can connect toghether, wouldn't if they connected toghether it would cause some slowdown to someone?

[Sylentwulf]

Has any system not had a "new super hyper cell tom and jerry crystal multi-threaded nuke chip"?

No. So make 72 more posts for those chips.

[digitalpress]

Did anyone here actually fall for things like "The Emotion Engine"? C'mon, it's an OBVIOUS marketing pitch, just like thie "Cell" thing. C'mon, we're the informed gamers. That stuff is for the proletariats.

Just look at the system specs and the games that are going to come out for it. Don't be a chump and get all giddy because a system has a cool-sounding (made up) name linked to it.

[ddockery]

WHo cares what's inside or what they want to cal it? Once it's here, I'll see how it handles. If it greatly improves my gaming experience, then I'll be sold. It's as simple as that.

[Nature Boy]

They had to find a way to make good looking games on the PS2 and they eventually did.

Doesn't this happen with every system? Doesn't Halo 2 look better than Halo because they found a way to make the games better looking?

And where are all the people who cry that great graphics don't make a game anyway, they want gameplay consarnit!

Don't believe the hype...

[Jorpho]

So when Sony started first talking about the PS2 and the "emotion engine" I was totally excited and all jacked up about it.

You strange.

[rbudrick]

Mmmm...Blast Processing....<drool>

-Rob

[Sylentwulf]

The mode 7 superfx chip is teh R0xOrZ

[tritium]

I'm still really pissed about hte PS2. The load times for Soul Calibur 2, and it runs worse tha SC 1 on the DC. It was so hyped, everyone waited for the PS2 instead of getting a DC. A mistake I regret till this day. I won't make the same mistake again.

-Tritium

[link1110]

In fact, I remember having to sleep in front of Target the day it came out to be able to get one on launch day. But after playing with my new PS2 for a few months, I came to the realization that it was one of the most poorly designed systems in history. To me the games didn't seem that much better than Dreamcast games. Not only that, but Dreamcast games were in 480p and looked super crystal clear on my progressive scan TV, while the PS2 was jaggie city.

That's not the worst. How about when you're switching discs and the DVD drive door closes unannounced and actuallyu scratches your games?

[crazyjackcsa]

What also pisses me off is polygon counts. Always has, I forget the numbers but I remember when the Ps2 specs were announced it was some massive number, Microsoft did the same thing. But it was like only flat shaded polys with no effects or Ai or anything, Sega (And Nintendo with the GC) said "look, This system will run X number of polys with effects, AI and everything else." If memory serves the Dc would push in the area of 4 million and the Ps2 was advertising like 60 million or somthing stupid like that.

People are dumb. That's why crap like this works.

[Ed Oscuro]

Did anyone here actually fall for things like "The Emotion Engine"? C'mon, it's an OBVIOUS marketing pitch, just like thie "Cell" thing. C'mon, we're the informed gamers. That stuff is for the proletariats.

Well, Cell isn't all hype. The "Emotion Engine" was garbage put out by Sony and Sony alone...but with Cell we're talking huge promise. Even if it doesn't do all they say it will, it's definitely going to be one of the frontrunners in computing a few years from now. If the specs hold - and hold they will - a single rack server with Cell chips could suddenly be among the top 50 supercomputers in the world. That's amazing.

Sony (and IBM, and Toshiba) is going to spend over a billion dollars on fab plants for this thing (think the actual number is $1.2bn). IBM and Sony have spent at least half a billion dollars just developing the thing.

So far, the only chip I've seen which will provide Cell-level performance is from some company or other that I haven't heard of, and we're talking $1000/CPU. Not terribly affordable.

I also spotted an "OMFG IT WILL CAUST 2 MUCH TO DEVELOP FORE" argument. Yeah, I imagine lots of people were sitting on their BBSes back in the day arguing that CD-ROM systems were satan and that poor game companies would never be able to fill up 650 MB of data..! Well, I understand where the argument comes from, but this isn't any Cray supercomputer. It's fully scalable, and a scalable system should be easy to develop for. 8 vector processing units per chip ("core"), and you can put as many (or as few) together as you like.

Toshiba's using them for dedicated HDTVs.

No, it's not being hyped so much as it is seeing the future flash before one's eyes. I am excited about it. I expect (as a way of being generous) problems to arise in any fashion possible, but anybody who isn't exited - and concerned, as well, for Intel's sake - by the idea of having the same system driving TVs and game systems apparently hasn't been paying much attention to this.

"Cell" isn't an empty word...back when Kutaragi announced it in 2001, he couched the upcoming technology in terms of biology. Nobody understood what "Emotion Engine" stood for, and as far as I know it never has stood for anything in particular.

I'm definitely a fan of technology, and Sony's plan puts them in a position of partial ownership of the technology. Wanna know why Microsoft's getting screwed over with the next XBox? They didn't "own" the hardware their games run on, and they can't inexpensively emulate it. Nintendo and Sony have both done well to make sure they own enough of the hardware so that regardless of what their particular vendor of the week is feeling that they should be able to continue to support that product with upgrades...not so Microsoft.

It's just fun to watch this stuff. It doesn't particularly matter to me how the technology works out, as I'm just here for the games, but the concept opens up some very interesting approaches and possibilities for gaming.

[rbudrick]

The mode 7 superfx chip is teh R0xOrZ

Super FX was real technology. It was a chip that allowed the SNES to make polygonal 3d graphics. Didn't it involve an extra 10mhz processor on the cart or something? I forget...

Mode 7? Also a real feature built into the SNES. For rotation and scaling, I believe...or one or the other...I forget which.

-Rob

[Jorpho]

Some people were agog about the efficient architecture of the Nintendo 64 back in the day, too (back when no one else had 64 bits).

[digitalpress]

Don't fall for it, Ed. Always remember: it's about the games.