Short eBay rant...

[goatdan]

So last week, I sold a copy of "The Guy Game" for the Xbox on eBay. In my auction description, I quoted the article about why the game had been pulled from store shelves and that it would become a collectors edition, as only the people that already bought it would have it in their collections, so the only way to get one was either to find a store that hadn't found it or to purchase it from someone else.

I noted the fact that the copy that I had was new, and that would be rare in the future.

It sold as a BIN pretty quickly.

Amazingly, today I get an email from eBay telling me that my item violated their rule policy and that I can't sell items like it because it violates eBay policy and that I am now being watched for possible suspension because of selling things against their policy.

Oddly enough though, mine was the ONLY auction pulled. And of course, there is no way to complain to eBay. Ah well, I feel like I finally pulled one over on them -- since it was a BIN auction, the seller has already paid and the game is on the way to him, and eBay credited my account with the fees.

Stupid, stupid, stupid eBay...

[Iron Draggon]

Ebay is retarded! Just let people sell the damn game! You bought it legally, and you sold it legally! Where the hell is the crime in that? Get over it, ebay!

[goatdan]

Ebay is retarded! Just let people sell the damn game! You bought it legally, and you sold it legally! Where the hell is the crime in that? Get over it, ebay!

I just found it funny that they pulled mine because I quoted the news article (with source) to why the game way pulled. So eBay *only* pulls my auction. If they wanted to actually do something about it, they should've pulled them all.

Heh, reminds me of the time that they told me I couldn't sell a Sega Saturn RAM cart made from Sega because it unlocked import play on the Saturn, and it is illegal to sell third party accessories that do that...

Even though I noted it was made by Sega and included pictures of it with the logos. Of course, mine was the only RAM cart pulled that week.

Every time I post auctions there, I'm happier and happier that I run my own store

[Iron Draggon]

SHEESH! That really is retarded! They really can be really stupid sometimes!

[Cmosfm]

The thing is, people always say stuff like "why'd eBay pull mine?". You did quote the article saying that this item WAS banned, and it's in the terms of service that you cannot sell banned/illegal items. But lemme tell you, eBay deals with MILLIONS and MILLIONS of different items, you can't expect them to keep up with everything all the time, especially one measly game that was banned.

They are just doing there job, pulling items that aren't supposed to be sold, an item that you yourself said in your own auction that it isn't supposed to be sold.

So just be careful how you sell from now on, if it's not supposed to be sold, don't sell it...or play ignorant.

[goatdan]

The thing is, people always say stuff like "why'd eBay pull mine?". You did quote the article saying that this item WAS banned, and it's in the terms of service that you cannot sell banned/illegal items. But lemme tell you, eBay deals with MILLIONS and MILLIONS of different items, you can't expect them to keep up with everything all the time, especially one measly game that was banned.

They are just doing there job, pulling items that aren't supposed to be sold, an item that you yourself said in your own auction that it isn't supposed to be sold.)

The article specifically stated that Take 2 could no longer sell the game, not that anyone that had one was suddenly illegal.

I do think for a company that charges as much as they do for their auctions that the could implement some better measures. They allow so many people to sell "backups" with pictures and do nothing. If they saw that my auction stated an article saying that the game was banned from being sold (again, by Take 2 as I picked it up at an EB less than a week ago), then they should have closed all of the auctions for the item for the same reason.

EBay's problem is that they have grown so large that they no longer have to care about customer service -- they have a monopoly because if you want the biggest market to sell to, you HAVE to go to eBay.

Ebay could hire additional people so you can actually contact them personally about concerns, could decide to enforce things unilaterally on items (banning all sales of the game if they felt they shouldn't have it) and so on. They choose not too. And they continue to raise fees. I guess it works for them for now, but it has led me from posting upwards of 15 items a month on them to less than 5 a year. If that trend continues, they open the door for anyone else to become a new Internet auction success.

Like I said, it was just a mini-rant. Allow me to either contact someone or removing all copies would've made me believe in their policy. Contacting just me reinforces my opinion of them...

[Aussie2B]

I went through the same crap twice when I was trying to sell off my second Super Famicom to SNES converter. It really annoyed me because there are sellers who sell them constantly over and over and NEVER have their auctions taken down. :/

[Ed Oscuro]

$$$

I honestly have no clue. Try "Marathon Trilogy" some time for a good laugh. Or "soundtracks." Or "Resident Evil" merchandise. -.-

[Promophile]

As someone who has experience selling "shady" merchindise on ebay (doujin) I know alot about ebay warnings. The reason why only your auction was targeted was because someone reported it. I've had people reporting me because I was pushing in on their business. Thats why you see one or two people selling dubious stuff yet when you try to it gets yanked. Survival of the assholiest.

[Griking]

The article specifically stated that Take 2 could no longer sell the game, not that anyone that had one was suddenly illegal.

The game was pulled off of store shelves because it possibly violated child porn laws. I'm sure that you are aware of this since you mentioned this info in your description. Did you really believe that only larger retailers are bound to obey these laws? Hey, news flash, you'd probably get your auction pulled if you tried to sell weed on eBay too.

I do think for a company that charges as much as they do for their auctions that the could implement some better measures. They allow so many people to sell "backups" with pictures and do nothing. If they saw that my auction stated an article saying that the game was banned from being sold (again, by Take 2 as I picked it up at an EB less than a week ago), then they should have closed all of the auctions for the item for the same reason.

Keep in mind that if eBay had better measure in place you wouldn't have been able to list the auction in the first place which means you wouldn't have been able to sell the game. This really comes across as just a selfish "why me" rant. Would you have bothered to post about this if your auction wasn't pulled?

EBay's problem is that they have grown so large that they no longer have to care about customer service -- they have a monopoly because if you want the biggest market to sell to, you HAVE to go to eBay.

you're probably right about that but it also has nothing to do with your auction being pulled.

I'm not trying to be a dick about this, I just think that since you knew that the the game was pulled and you obviously knew the reason why that it would only common sense to know better than to try to sell it eBay.

[number6]

Bravo Griking! I have probably misjudged you in the past. I must look on you now with a new perspective.

[16-bit]

Many of eBay's actions are responses to reports from eBay users. You know, the "Report A Trading Violation" form.

An eBay shopper probably reported your auction.

[goatdan]

The game was pulled off of store shelves because it possibly violated child porn laws. I'm sure that you are aware of this since you mentioned this info in your description. Did you really believe that only larger retailers are bound to obey these laws? Hey, news flash, you'd probably get your auction pulled if you tried to sell weed on eBay too.

Hey, news flash, from the source...

The plaintiff, anonymously named "Jane Doe," asserted that she was not legally capable of giving consent to display the video images, and requested the Travis County Court in Austin, Texas that all copies of The Guy Game with her images be removed from retailers.

The judge hearing the case agreed, granting a temporary order prohibiting sale of the game.

That's all nice, but I'm not a retailer. I was not selling the game as the GOAT Store, I was selling it as me. That does not violate any laws.

Your argument seems to be that if you purchase something that later turns out to have something potentially illegal in it, suddenly you are the bad guy. The game didn't just sell to a few people before it was pulled from shelves. It got out there...

Tengen Tetris was pulled from store shelves for being an illegal version of the game, as Nintendo held the rights to the port. Amazingly, it seems to me that Tengen's version is worth more because of three reasons -- it is great game, it was pulled from shelves and it is rare. By your argument, any owners of Tengen Tetris are knowingly infringing on copyrights and should be jailed and/or fined... and unlike the Guy Game, Tengen Vs. Nintendo has already worked its way through the courts and Nintendo won. Who knows what will happen with this case?

Also, just to read more information, I went to eBay's page for Prohibited and Restricted Items (the email stated that I specifically violated one of these rules). From that page, I only get a few possibilities:

- Hazardous, Restricted, and Perishable Items - Nope, that's things you can't send by mail.
- Mature Audiences - It even specifically states that "BMX XXX and other similar video games are permitted [to be sold outside the Mature Audiences heading].
- Offensive Material - eBay states this applies to "Items that Promote Hatred, Violence or Racial Intolerance." Nope, the game doesn't do that.
- Recalled Items - Applies to things you can return. Take 2 is not replacing the game for people.

So... what is it that I did violate?

Keep in mind that if eBay had better measure in place you wouldn't have been able to list the auction in the first place which means you wouldn't have been able to sell the game. This really comes across as just a selfish "why me" rant. Would you have bothered to post about this if your auction wasn't pulled?

You know what -- you're damn right! I wouldn't have complained at all if eBay had taken all of the auctions down, but mine was the only one that was taken out. You can say this is just a stupid "why me" rant, but the game had already sold days earlier. Would I have bothered to post about this if my auction wasn't pulled? What would I have posted about? The fact that I sold a game and paid eBay fees? Wouldn't that get old?

If I had gone to eBay and had put in the bar code of the game and was told "You cannot list this item on eBay because [reason]" that would be just fine by me. The news broke a month ago today - It seems like if eBay wanted to do that, they could've done it by now...

I'm not trying to be a dick about this, I just think that since you knew that the the game was pulled and you obviously knew the reason why that it would only common sense to know better than to try to sell it eBay.

Had I felt that the auction was against eBay rules and had my auction been pulled, I probably would've been embarassed to post about it. I don't feel that my auction was against their rules still, and I do feel my situation is unique.

I sold the game as a BIN, and then eBay refunded my auction fees nearly a week later. If they wanted to pull my auction, fine... but why they did it so late after the auction is baffling to me. I do find it funny that eBay only decided to pull mine. If what I had in my auction was reason for my auction to be pulled (a week later), then why wouldn't eBay pull all of the auctions? Oh, wait... Customer service no longer exists at eBay, so things are enforced only based on -- as others noted -- when someone gets reported.

I decided to post this because of what I feel is an unique-ly late eBay pulling, as well as the fact that I am disappointed that eBay has gone so sharply downhill -- thus the title of short eBay rant. I've been an eBay member for nearly seven years now, and maybe I'm just getting old and missing the "good ol' days" when you could actually contact people that worked for eBay and your auction fees were a lot lower.

[Griking]

[quote="goatdan"]
Hey, news flash, from the source...

The plaintiff, anonymously named "Jane Doe," asserted that she was not legally capable of giving consent to display the video images, and requested the Travis County Court in Austin, Texas that all copies of The Guy Game with her images be removed from retailers.

The judge hearing the case agreed, granting a temporary order prohibiting sale of the game.

Do you really believe that you should legally be allowed to sell this game on eBay or are you just looking for a technicality in the wording of the judge's order? You sound like a lawyer looking for a loophole for something that they don't agree with.

Besides, the second paragraph (The judge hearing the case agreed, granting a temporary order prohibiting sale of the game) seems to make it pretty clear to me.

Your argument seems to be that if you purchase something that later turns out to have something potentially illegal in it, suddenly you are the bad guy.

I'm not saying that you're a bad guy for owning a game. I'm saying that weren't allowed to SELL the game. The judge made a ruling not me and like it or not, his word is law.

Tengen Tetris was pulled from store shelves for being an illegal version of the game, as Nintendo held the rights to the port. Amazingly, it seems to me that Tengen's version is worth more because of three reasons -- it is great game, it was pulled from shelves and it is rare. By your argument, any owners of Tengen Tetris are knowingly infringing on copyrights and should be jailed and/or fined... and unlike the Guy Game, Tengen Vs. Nintendo has already worked its way through the courts and Nintendo won. Who knows what will happen with this case?

Again, you're pointing to others who may or may not be doing something wrong to try to make what you did look more legit. If you stole a car do you think that you should get leniency just because you can point to someone else who stole a car as well?

I don't want to get too far off topic here but as for Tetris, I think that if Nintendo wanted to persue it eBay would pull all auction for that item as well.

Also, just to read more information, I went to eBay's page for Prohibited and Restricted Items (the email stated that I specifically violated one of these rules). From that page, I only get a few possibilities:

- Hazardous, Restricted, and Perishable Items - Nope, that's things you can't send by mail.
- Mature Audiences - It even specifically states that "BMX XXX and other similar video games are permitted [to be sold outside the Mature Audiences heading].
- Offensive Material - eBay states this applies to "Items that Promote Hatred, Violence or Racial Intolerance." Nope, the game doesn't do that.
- Recalled Items - Applies to things you can return. Take 2 is not replacing the game for people.

So... what is it that I did violate?

How about the law? eBay isn't the final word about what is and what isn't legal to sell you know.

I cut this straight from the "mature audiences" link.

Are there any limits on the types of adult material that can be listed within Mature Audiences?

Yes. eBay users are expected to follow all applicable laws relating to the sale of pornographic material. There are three basic categories of pornographic material that are not permitted on eBay.

* The first is child pornography. CHILD PORNOGRAPHY IS ILLEGAL, and the possession or sale of such materials violates the law in many countries, including the United States.[/b] To protect our users, recognizing that images of nude children often raise legal concerns, eBay has made a policy decision that it will not permit the listing of any item that depicts nude minors (under 18 years of age). Listings of such material, even if described as nude "teens," "children," "youngsters," or "nudist," are not permitted.

The reason that the judge put the temporary hold on the sale of the game was because the woman in question was possibly underage. But then again, you already know this.

Had I felt that the auction was against eBay rules and had my auction been pulled, I probably would've been embarassed to post about it. I don't feel that my auction was against their rules still, and I do feel my situation is unique.

I sold the game as a BIN, and then eBay refunded my auction fees nearly a week later. If they wanted to pull my auction, fine... but why they did it so late after the auction is baffling to me. I do find it funny that eBay only decided to pull mine. If what I had in my auction was reason for my auction to be pulled (a week later), then why wouldn't eBay pull all of the auctions? Oh, wait... Customer service no longer exists at eBay, so things are enforced only based on -- as others noted -- when someone gets reported.

The reason that yours was pulled was likely because (as someone already said) someone complained about it therefore drawing attention to it. Another reason may be that you flaunted the fact that it was illegal to sell in your auction's description. x_x. I hate to say it but you just may be the type of person that they put "do not use in shower" labels on hair dryers for.

Sure there are a lot of auctions that sneak by eBay's radar. We all know that eBay isn't perfect and that they can do much better with their customer service but honestly I just don't think that you have a case here.

[goatdan]

Do you really believe that you should legally be allowed to sell this game on eBay or are you just looking for a technicality in the wording of the judge's order? You sound like a lawyer looking for a loophole for something that they don't agree with.

So something that I legally bought (or was it an illegal act to you, since I bought it after it was supposedly removed from all retailers shelves), I can't sell again?

Do you think that customers have to start being the ones to figure out if everything they purchase is legal? I saw a kiosk at the mall selling Famiclones this year, and I saw at least ten people purchase them. If that went to court, the people manufacturing the clones would get fined and/or go to jail, while the people that bought it as well as the people that sold it at the kiosks wouldn't be able to be sued by Nintendo over owning one.

I'm not saying that you're a bad guy for owning a game. I'm saying that weren't allowed to SELL the game. The judge made a ruling not me and like it or not, his word is law.

That type of ruling has never applied to reselling things that are already owned, but obviously you are such a great expert on the subject. Not trying to be a dick? Then you just seem to be saying stuff that you think sounds good, without actually knowing much behind it.

If the game was recalled -- as in you could return it and get your money back for the purchase -- then yes it would be illegal to sell. If the game has an injunction to stop selling copies at retail, those who already bought it can still do what they want with it. I can give more examples from outside the video game world, but you would make another outrageous claim that comparing other things like this would be like comparing it to murdering someone or something.

What I did isn't a loophole, and it was abiding by the law that has been established. But you wouldn't care about that...

Again, you're pointing to others who may or may not be doing something wrong to try to make what you did look more legit. If you stole a car do you think that you should get leniency just because you can point to someone else who stole a car as well?

I don't want to get too far off topic here but as for Tetris, I think that if Nintendo wanted to persue it eBay would pull all auction for that item as well.

What the hell? You just compared owning a copy of Tengen Tetris to stealing a car. Somehow, I don't think that I have a problem with a person owning a copy of Tengen Tetris if they paid for it. I don't see how this is different... I paid for the game, I sold the game.

And the fact is that even if Take 2 loses in this case, what would happen is that they would have to pay a fine based on what was sold and the games that were out there would still be people's properties.

How about the law? eBay isn't the final word about what is and what isn't legal to sell you know.

Notice that the rules that you quoted didn't mention anything about drugs, weapons, alcohol, or stolen merchantise either. Try listing some of these items though and let me know how it works out.

Your knowledge of the law seems to be even less than your knowledge of eBay's rules, but I've already outlined the law... so now for the eBay page that they quoted (and so did I last time):

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/items-ov.html

The rules that I quoted do indeed mention...

Drugs - http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/drugs.html
Weapons - http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/weapons.html
Alcohol - http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/alcohol.html
and Stolen Merchandise - http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/stolen.html

If you had read the link that I left where I stated that I only had a fe possibilities of what I could have violated. Perhaps if you would have you would have noticed this? Nah, you just want a reason to sit here and say that I'm a whiner.

...Oh hey, you changed your post to reflect the fact that you hadn't read the rules while I was writing this. Okay, I'm glad you did read the rules.. Lemme see here:

Are there any limits on the types of adult material that can be listed within Mature Audiences?

Yes. eBay users are expected to follow all applicable laws relating to the sale of pornographic material. There are three basic categories of pornographic material that are not permitted on eBay.

* The first is child pornography. CHILD PORNOGRAPHY IS ILLEGAL, and the possession or sale of such materials violates the law in many countries, including the United States.[/b] To protect our users, recognizing that images of nude children often raise legal concerns, eBay has made a policy decision that it will not permit the listing of any item that depicts nude minors (under 18 years of age). Listings of such material, even if described as nude "teens," "children," "youngsters," or "nudist," are not permitted.

The reason that the judge put the temporary hold on the sale of the game was because the woman in question was possibly underage. But then again, you already know this.

Yes, very good. Now, here is where the law comes in again:

If the product has been sold to people in a legal manner and has been declared as a legal product to sell (unlike a drug, for instance) and then later the makers are told that they can no longer sell it for whatever reason, the people that have bought it fall under an umbrella of protection. If the game is pulled because there is proof that this girl was underage and Take 2 offers a rull refund for each copy returned, it is then illegal to have and / or sell the merchandise. If, on the other hand, the judge does not order a full recall, then it remains legal for people that have already purchased it to sell it.

Thats why EB still stocks it - http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/categorie...ord=Guy%20Game

The reason that yours was pulled was likely because (as someone already said) someone complained about it therefore drawing attention to it. Another reason may be that you flaunted the fact that it was illegal to sell in your auction's description. x_x. I hate to say it but you just may be the type of person that they put "do not use in shower" labels on hair dryers for.

Ah, here is where the entire point of your post becomes obvious. Since I had a reason to post that wasn't whining and you presented an argument that doesn't make sense in your last reply (and this one), you have to go for personal attacks. Wow. Real grown up.

Sure there are a lot of auctions that sneak by eBay's radar. We all know that eBay isn't perfect and that they can do much better with their customer service but honestly I just don't think that you have a case here.

What is my case? My complaint to eBay would've been simply why mine was the only one pulled, but the likelyhood of contacting eBay is approximately none. As I've said all along, I don't care that my auction was pulled because I sold the item and sent it already, and eBay STILL gave me back my fees. I do think that was extremely strange.

I'm sorry if my posting this came off to you as me sitting around and whining that my auction was pulled, but I still don't understand why it would've. I sold the item, eBay credited me back the fees and eBay's customer service still sucks. Yes, I'm disappointed that eBay just rides on the fact that they are a monopoly now, but I hurt them in the best way for a consumer to hurt a company, which is by using them less and less.

Anyway, since I'm worried that your next attack will just involve more childish statements about how you think I'm an idiot, I won't be replying to you. It is apparent that I know more about what I'm talking about than you do in this topic, and you missed the entire point of the original post which was -- again -- that eBay pulled my auction and returned my fees after almost a week had passed. I thought that was strange, I thought I would share it. Not be challenged to a pissing match over how great or how poor eBay is at managing their auctions.

Hey, I just now looked while writing this whole message at eBay again, and Iam extremely surprised to see that the game has, in fact, been completely pulled. Yesterday, when I posted this there was at least 15 auctions going on for the Xbox version alone. Right now, there are none.

Even though it took them another day to pull them all, I'm actually impressed that they did so. Mine may have been the one to tip them off (even though mine wasn't the only one to mention the court case by name: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...161146357&rd=1 ) If that's the case, eBay actually made a decision based on their feelings and pulled them all, and that's a big step up for eBay in my mind!

[Iron Draggon]

Well personally, I don't see why the game being recalled (if it was ever to be recalled at some point in the future) would suddenly make it illegal for those who already own it it to continue owning it, or to sell it. Consumers cannot be and should not be expected to be aware that any items they own have been recalled. Therefore to make it a crime to own or sell an item that has been recalled is like making it illegal to not know some fact of trivia, as far as I'm concerned. It's not something life threatening like not knowing that drugs are illegal or murder is against the law, and it's not something harmful to others like not knowing that stealing is an illegal act. It's just a video game that happens to be involved in a lawsuit right now. A ruling is still pending.

Now, as a person who happens to live in Texas who knows the laws of this state concerning the age of legal consent here fairly well, I'm fairly certain that Take 2 will win their case, if they get a good enough team of lawyers to study the laws of Texas well enough. The video footage in question was filmed in Texas. In Texas, the age of legal consent is somewhat vague, but unless a judge rules otherwise, as far as I know it's officially 17 years old. The girl in question was 17 years old at the time of filming. She only appeared topless in the video footage in question. As far as I know, that is perfectly legal in this state, and she was indeed of legal age to give her consent to appear topless in a video being filmed in this state. So I'm fairly certain that her appearance in the video was perfectly legal as far as the laws of Texas are concerned, and the game should be perfectly legal to sell here. Other states may rule that it is indeed illegal in other states, and Take 2 may lose their case at the national level, but as far as I know, theoretically they could recover all their losses simply by legally selling and distributing the game only here in Texas. So come on down to Texas y'all, because you can legally have sex with 17 year old girls here, and you can watch them bounce their hootchies and wiggle their kootchies for you all you want. If she was only 16, then there'd be trouble. But 17 is legal. So theoretically the game should still be perfectly legal to own and sell here. In fact, I think I just might try to track down a copy of it, even though I don't own a PS2, just so I can own this piece of history. I'm certainly very interested to see how this case turns out. A good team of lawyers should be able to find the loophole very easily.

My advice to Take 2 is just push the fact that the video footage in question was filmed in Texas, and in Texas the girl in question is not considered a minor in regards to her appearance in the video, and therefore the video footage was filmed in a perfectly legal manner and no community standards of the actual filming location were violated. Hence, the game should be perfectly legal to own and sell regardless of where it's owned or sold, unless it becomes banned by a particular community through a city ordinance, or by another state via some statute. In which case it would only be illegal to be owned or sold in those particular locations. The rest of the country, and certainly Texas, would still be fair grounds for the sale and ownership of it.

I really hope that Take 2 wins their case, due to this most interesting little technicality. Because I have wondered how the laws of other states would apply in a case like this for years. Every time I see something about models wishing to apply for an appearance in a video like this that's being sold at the national level, the application stipulates that the model must be at least 18 years old. But here in Texas, a model need only be 17 years old to appear in such a video, and I have always wondered how our laws regarding this would hold up against the laws of the rest of the country. I would assume that the laws of other states would override the laws of Texas at the national level, as far as the sale and distribution of such footage at the national level goes.

I'm not entirely sure that would be the case if the footage was filmed here in Texas, which is exactly what the case is in this case. So this is like the lawsuit of my dreams finally being played out in grand style, to settle all my questions about the age of legal consent in this state, what exactly it means that a girl (or guy) is or isn't allowed to do here at the age of 17, and how our laws apply when the rest of the country is involved as well. I'm sure that there's alot of other people just like me here who can hardly wait to find out what the final ruling will be. Because most of us are so unsure of what is or isn't legal at 17 that we just don't do anything with anyone who isn't at least 18 years old, just to be safe. The laws here on this subject are very vague, and it's very unclear what is or isn't legal, but it appears that anything and everything that's legal at 18 years old everywhere else in the country is perfectly legal at only 17 years old here. So this could very well set a new precedent for our state, and possibly change our laws to raise the age of legal consent to 18 years old, as it is everywhere else in the country. Or it could leave everything here as is, and force the rest of the country to recognize the laws of our state, as long as the videos and the models in question were being filmed in this state. I hope that girl is a Texas resident. That would seal this case up beautifully. And who knows? This whole thing may very well be someone's bright idea to challenge the laws of the rest of the country with the laws of Texas. It could all be one big publicity stunt.

So for now, my stance on this issue is that as long as the girl in question is a legal resident of the state of Texas, there's absolutely nothing illegal about that video footage as far as the laws of this state are concerned, and it should still be on the shelves of any store that wants to sell it here right now. No laws were violated here. No community standards were violated, that I'm aware of. I'm not very familiar with the local laws and ordinances of Padre Island, but I'm pretty sure that no community standards were violated there either. I'm fairly certain that going topless there is OK, at least at the location that the video footage was filmed, otherwise it would never have been filmed there to begin with. I'm sure that Take 2 did everything within their power to ensure that no laws were violated. Which is why I'm really beginning to wonder if this whole thing isn't just one big publicity stunt on their part, and someone's attempt to challenge the laws of the rest of the country to verify and clarify the laws of Texas regarding the age of legal consent once and for all. It has been the subject of much debate here before. But as far as I know, in every case, 17 was ruled to be a legal age. And I don't expect that to change here anytime soon. It's been like that for as long as I've studied it, which is ever since I was 16 years old, so for at least 21 years, to be exact, and no doubt for many years before that also.