Why can't flying games be flying games?

[FantasiaWHT]

What the hell is wrong with developers?

Take the two best console flying (first person) game series in existence (IMO at least)- Starfox and Star Wars: Rogue Squadron...

... and fix them up with CRAPPY 3rd person action levels...

WHY!???!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?

The running around levels in Rebel Strike were HORRENDOUS. Luckily there weren't that many of them, and you could enjoy the rest of the game tho.

What the HELL is wrong with the Starfox developers? Granted, Adventures wasn't a Starfox game at first, just got slapped on at some point with some bad flying levels thrown in, but I could've forgiven (or at least ignored) that if Assault had been another great Starfox flying game.

But Starfox is a very fun flying game and a very VERY mediocre running around game. I've played 4 levels so far and I've only gotten to do a good flying level ONCE!!!!!!!!! If once in a while (like 10% of the time) I had to jump in a landmaster or on foot, fine, vary it up a bit. BUT MOST OF THE ACTION is on the ground... and I hate it. There's dozens of better games I could play on the ground, but not a single rail-based first person flying shooter I can think of so WHY GOD WHY!?!?!?!?

urgh

[Leo_A]

If you want to buy a real flying game, you're looking in the wrong spot anyways. Try something like Microsoft Flight Simulator or LOMAC.

[whoisKeel]

This thread makes me sad. I am looking forward to playing the new Star Fox, but the idea of ground levels in the game turns me off. I too thought the Rebel Strike ground levels were aweful...are the Star Fox ground missions really that bad?

[Sothy]

try that secret weapons over normandy game on xbox. pretty sweet.
made by the rogue squadron peeps.

[FantasiaWHT]

If you want to buy a real flying game, you're looking in the wrong spot anyways. Try something like Microsoft Flight Simulator or LOMAC.

Never did I mention I had any desire to play a realistic/simulation flying game or one on PC for that matter.

the ground levels are better than the Rebel Strike levels... they aren't the track-based run & guns... more like.... hmm.... sorta feels like a poor man's Ratchet & Clank with "normal" weapons. Instead of a path you follow, you're given a relatively wide, open area with different objectives that essentially boil down to destroy X number of targets.

First ground level goes

Destroy X "mid level" baddies in an outdoor complex
Get Landrover, destroy X + 10 "mid level" baddies
Destroy X devices that spawn baddies
Destroy boss

Second level ground goes

Destroy X devices that spawn baddies in a multi-level indoor complex.
Hop in arwing to blast apart a couple battleships if they overwhelm your cronies
Destroy the rest of the devices
Hop back in your arwing to blast apart some more baddies.

[ubersaurus]

Well to be fair, starfox has been drifting away from it's rail shooter roots ever since the unreleased star fox 2, which had all range levels and ground combat in mechs. Then starfox 64 had the landmaster ground levels, all range levels, and a multiplayer where you could run on foot. I suppose the Assault gameplay was inevitable.

As for rebel strike, god knows what they were thinking.

[SirDrexl]

I think it comes down to wanting to do something different with the gameplay. If they try to change things, people criticize them for screwing up the formula, but if they kept the gameplay the same as the last, people would criticize them for making the same game again.

[FantasiaWHT]

I think it comes down to wanting to do something different with the gameplay. If they try to change things, people criticize them for screwing up the formula, but if they kept the gameplay the same as the last, people would criticize them for making the same game again.

And yet the safest, most popular, most lucrative games of all (the year-in, year-out minimally different sports franchises) change almost nothing in any formula from year to year.

I think you can change things up and keep them interesting without trying to completely change the genre of your series.

How do you think it would go over if the Maddens and Lives all of a sudden forced you to do Tycoon-style stadium management? Not as an option, but something you had to put up with every single time you wanted to play a single game?

(ps Starfox 64 still only had those "different" things as an unusual change-of-pace instead of the focus of the game. And I don't remember any run-around MP level)

[WanganRunner]

I never liked Rogue Squadron's flight mechanics anyway....

I think that Starfox needs a FULL 3D "go anywhere" all-flight game, a la Star Wars Starighter or TIE Fighter... If I can't do a split-S then it isn't a flight game, it's something else.

I just saw the new Starfox running at Gamestop though....DAMN does it look nice. The GCN never ceases to amaze me, definitely my favorite (graphically speaking) of the three current-gen consoles.

[bargora]

I never liked Rogue Squadron's flight mechanics anyway....

Hear, hear. It was like there was a "glass ceiling" that you couldn't pass. That always bothered me. I hope that Rogue Leader was better.

But I've been generally unimpressed with console flight shooters other than the Colony Wars series, which I liked. The computer-based ones always seemed more polished and offered more control, while the console-based ones seemed "dumbed down". I know that it's largely a function of the controller input and not wanting to assign a lot of multi-button combinations, but still.

Anyway, at least the Battlestar Galactica game is a pure flight shooter (as far as I know). I mean, there aren't any "jump over the Cylons!" platforming sections, are there?

[it290]

Y'know, I've been playing a lot of plane games lately, and I don't particularly care for realistic flight sims either. Wings of War is a fun WWI game that was released for the PC at a budget price not too long ago. I've also been playing Wings GBA, Crimson Skies, and Propeller Arena, all of which are a lot of fun - Propeller Arena is particularly great for quick deathmatches.

[Cantaloup]

Check out Ace Combat 4 and 5 for the PS2. Very good games IMHO.