Konami - Grade *A* Bastards! (Petition against Konami UK)

[Kroogah]

For those of you who are unaware of the artform of trolling, I have included a link below...


The Art Of Forum Trolling


Basically, that whole "Ever try this with eBay (And Royal Mail)" thread was a test. That's right, a test. I wanted to see how many people would bite.

I know doing so was wrong, but I wanted to put a theory into practice...


Like come on, AS IF! For starters, I think someone would soon notice that a load of claims were going through for my address. Secondly, I think the mailmen would have a little more sense than to repeatedly do such a thing.


So I apologise for leading a few people astray and for provoking an arguement, but my experiment is over.

I know doing so was wrong, but it helped me with my research into "The Art Of Trolling"


Basically, I just wanted to spread the word about *Forum Trolls* and how they operate. Now you have all been the victim of my devious *Trolling operation* you are well aware of how easy it is to get caught up in one.

*Trolls* operate on all forums, and it is so easially to become their prey. Be aware, and think before you go off on one...

Anybody remember? Anyone? HELLOOOOOOOOOOO?

[link1110]

If it helps, no games for nintendo systems are sealed in Japan. I've been buying them new since the SFC days. Though I'll admit I don't remember if my one GC import was sealed or not, and I never imported a DS game, I know for sure Famicom, Super Famicom, Gameboy Color and Gameboy Advance imports were never sealed. I even got taken once on a "Sealed Dragon Quest 3 Famicom" game on Ebay before I knew about Famicom games.

Japanese games for PS1 and PS2 are sealed when new, as are Turbo Duo games however.

[Berserker]

I guess I just don't see what the big deal is.

Since there is no seal, just check the CD/DVD itself for scratches, check the case for scratches, and if there aren't any, buy the game.

The only difference between sealed and unsealed, as I see it, is the latter requires you to have a more active role when looking for "perfect, pristine" games. The only thing a thin layer of shrinkwrap does is guarantee this, on the inside anyways. So if you've seen the inside, and know that everything's in perfect condition, where's the problem?

The only other reasoning I can see is for bragging rights, as in "I have however many sealed games". But how is that any different from saying "I have however many games that are in absolutely perfect condition"? Is that less bragworthy?

Don't get me wrong, I can certainly see your reasoning, but I just think that it's more or less just hair-splitting, even if you're hardcore about the condition of your games.

[NintendoMan]

We won't tolerate 85,000,000 fingerprints all over our boxes.

Very true, that SUCKS! That's why I usually don't buy used games with cases! One thousands fingerprints, shit load of stickers, and usually something ripped or the case has dirt on it.

[Luke]

This has been going on in Australia since the early PS2 days and was the reason I do not buy PAL games and more and now only buy US and JP games. If you feel the same then you too should abandon the APL market as well.

Luke

[Gemini-Phoenix]

BTW, if all you collect is sealed games, what do you actually play??

I have two separate collections - Games I collect, and games I play. All games I buy have got to be sealed though.

In the case of many games though, I will borrow or rent. Sometimes I may copy some games from my mates. and use my PC to play them, whilst keeping my copy of the game in perfect sealed condition.


As far as sealed games go, I am extremely passionate about them. Anyone else here the same? I just can't deal with the fact that somebody has touched my product before me. It gives me the creeps!


Has anyone else eMailed Konami with their thoughts yet? I think if enough people eMail them, they may decide to change their mind about their manufacturing practices...


All the other companies manage to do it, so why can't they? At the end of the day, if it only costs a few cents to ensure a game is actually brand new, then I say do it.


At the end of the day, if you buy one of the above mentioned games on release day, then fair enough, it can be considered new, but a week, or a month down the line, it is no different from any other game - Including pre-owned ones.

If the game is sealed, it remains brand new and certifiably untouched forever! So you could buy it five years down the line knowing for a FACT that it has never been played or touched.

[SoulBlazer]

Dude, you're starting to freak me out.

[FurinkanianFrood]

I don't live in the UK but far too often I have bought "new" games only to find out that the discs were scratched up (and badly).

This makes it far too easy for retailers to sell used games as new. Around here they usually put shrink wrap on games when they do that, and while it doesn't fool me, if the games had nothing on them in the first place the purchaser can never know if the game was bought new or if they payed the new game price for a relatively well kept trade in.

Quality issues helped drive me away from the PS2 altogether....
Good luck with your disc drives folks.... and if it breaks down, pray that Sony gets your PS2 back to you within the year and actually fixed. I'm really not making this stuff up..... Sony has "lost" people's PS2s and returned them much later still broken.....

Dude, you're starting to freak me out. Eyecrazy.gif

I'm rather creeped out by the "my games have to be sealed" thing too, but I think that new games should be sealed anyway, for reasons above. I certainly don't have the money to waste on games I won't open... To each their own... I guess....

I think that it's a bit different with cartridge systems though, SFamicom like someone mentioned for instance.

[thegreatescape]

I demand apathy!

[Vroomfunkel]

And this is exactly why I believe Konami are deliberately trying to limit the resale value of certain games.

I am still struggling to understand why Konami would care in the slightest about the resale value of their games. Konami only make money on the first sale, so anything beyond that surely won't concern them in slightest.

In fact, if they were thinking about this at all, sure they would be sealing their games, for precisely the reason that if it later turns out that one of the games goes astronomical for sealed copies, they can churn out any excess stock they have in a warehouse somewhere and make a mint!

However the fact is that a company like Konami won't waste their time dabbling around with things like that - they are solely concerned with the shelf sales. If a game becomes so rare that a sealed copy is worth a fortune, that is probably an indicator for them that it performed appallingly in the shops!

The issue of whether they seal the games or not is in all likelihood due to the deals they have with manufacturers in different countries. Presumably the UK manufacturer doesn't seal the games. It would cost more for them to request that the manufacturer change their procedures, or to swap the contract to a different manufacturer than it would be worth for sales to a practically insignificant number of people who actually care about it.

That's business. Feel free to email them with your complaint, but frankly I really doubt if they will give it any consideration.

Vroomfunkel

[FantasiaWHT]

Think about it for a sec...

How does shrink wrapping their games benefit KONAMI?

Sure, it benefits ebay sellers, because they can make a profit if a game becomes rare. Why should Konami pay the manufacturers a few extra cents per game (times a few hundred thousand or a million...) so that somebody else can make a profit?

That's like complaining that sony shouldn't have rereleased Final Fantasy Tactics as a Greatest Hits because it hurt the resale value of your original copy.

[Gemini-Phoenix]

If it helps, no games for nintendo systems are sealed in Japan. I've been buying them new since the SFC days. Though I'll admit I don't remember if my one GC import was sealed or not, and I never imported a DS game, I know for sure Famicom, Super Famicom, Gameboy Color and Gameboy Advance imports were never sealed. I even got taken once on a "Sealed Dragon Quest 3 Famicom" game on Ebay before I knew about Famicom games.

Japanese games for PS1 and PS2 are sealed when new, as are Turbo Duo games however.

I thought they had some kind of law in Japan where everything has to be sealed and sold with their respective spine card???

I so wish we had a law like that here. I would love that so much. They should make it law that every game / Cd / Dvd has to be sealed (And not shrinkwrapped either!) in order for it to be sold as brand new. Otherwise the product has to be sold as used.


But as they also have a law in Japan regarding the resale of games...


It all comes down to the fact that we are paying good money for a product. We should have the right to receive it in the best possible condition we can. Not some game which has been knocking around the shop for a while getting "Shop soiled"


Shop soiled meaning = Getting moved constantly, handled by everyone and their dog (Hygiene anyone?), and having those massive stickers constantly put on them. Not to mention the damage some box's incure -My local GAME has the skankiest Donkey Konga box set you have ever seen!!!


Plus, the benefit of getting sealed games is that you know everything which is supposed to come inside is definately in there, and hasn't been tampered with.


I know people who have bought GameCube / GBA games which haven't been sealed, only to find that someone had removed the Nintendo Stars leaflet from inside. Not such a big deal to some, but it just goes to prove my point.

[Nez]

If you don't like the copies of the game move on and find another. Jeez its not like every copy in the UK will look like ass after 2 days.

[Gemini-Phoenix]

And just one more thing to quickly consider -


GAME have (Or used to have) a 10 day *Play & Trade* policy.

This meant you could buy a game on release day, have it for 10 days and then take it back and trade for another game for the same price.


Now I know a lot of people who used to do this, but you have to wonder what happened to all the returned games... Did they get resold as pre-owned games?

No. Sometimes GAME would return the games to their supplier, the same way they do for damaged goods (If anyone here works in retail, then they will know the kind of procedure)

Other times they would be sneaky. They would check the contents and general condition of the game, and if it was still 100% minty, then they would give it to the next customer who bought that particular game. I know they are not supposed to do that, but that's what they did.



Consider this:

You could buy a game on day of release (Say, 10 AM). You could have played it quickly or just decided that you didn't want it. You could then take it back an hour later (11 AM) and get a refund, or trade it back in for something else (Maybe say you bought it by mistake???)


Technically, the game is still a brand new game and a brand new release, but by law they SHOULD then sell it as pre-owned, but they don't, they resell it again as brand new.

Now if the game is sealed, that isn't a problem. But as many aren't...


Just a little thing to consider next time you go to the shop to purchace a game...

[Nez]

You could buy a game on day of release (Say, 10 AM). You could have played it quickly or just decided that you didn't want it. You could then take it back an hour later (11 AM) and get a refund, or trade it back in for something else (Maybe say you bought it by mistake???)


Technically, the game is still a brand new game and a brand new release, but by law they SHOULD then sell it as pre-owned, but they don't, they resell it again as brand new.

Now if the game is sealed, that isn't a problem. But as many aren't...


Just a little thing to consider next time you go to the shop to purchace a game...

OH NO MY PERFECTLY MINT GAME ISN"T NEW!!! BASTARDS!!

[anagrama]

If it's such a big problem for you then exercise your consumer rights by not buying them. Simple, really.

[Gemini-Phoenix]

A Revelation!!!


I now have in my posession a picture of a UK PAL Metal Gear Solid 3 - FACTORY SEALED!

A kind eBayer was helpful enough to supply me with what I wanted, and came through!

[esquire]

BTW, if all you collect is sealed games, what do you actually play??

I have two separate collections - Games I collect, and games I play. All games I buy have got to be sealed though.

It all comes down to the fact that we are paying good money for a product. We should have the right to receive it in the best possible condition we can. Not some game which has been knocking around the shop for a while getting "Shop soiled"


Shop soiled meaning = Getting moved constantly, handled by everyone and their dog (Hygiene anyone?), and having those massive stickers constantly put on them. Not to mention the damage some box's incure -My local GAME has the skankiest Donkey Konga box set you have ever seen!!!

Well, if you have two collections - one sealed and one open to play, what difference does it make if the sealed copy's plastic shrinkwrap is shop soiled as opposed to the open copy being shop soiled? The effect is still same if you are that concerned about hygiene. I'd hate to play a game at your house. Do you make your guests wear latex gloves when they play your games? You're like the "Howard Hughes" of gaming with your fear of germs. If you are that concerned with opened games and germs, spray a little lysol or windex cleaner on a rag and apply it to the plastic case. No harm there.

Plus, the benefit of getting sealed games is that you know everything which is supposed to come inside is definately in there, and hasn't been tampered with.

I know people who have bought GameCube / GBA games which haven't been sealed, only to find that someone had removed the Nintendo Stars leaflet from inside. Not such a big deal to some, but it just goes to prove my point.

If you never open the game, how do you know it is complete? There have been a few times where I've bought a game or dvd, opened it only to discover something is is missing such as an insert or warranty card.

[Gemini-Phoenix]

In a strange twist to this whole Konami conundrum, I have discovered that it is the UK market that they tend to discriminate against...


I recently came across an auction on eBay for a factory sealed copy of Suikoden IV ~ "Great" I thought, but I noticed that it was the French release (From the French only writing on the back)

Same seller also had a load of English ones (UK releases), which he said he got direct from Konami, but which weren't sealed...


I have also noticed that some games with higher print runs (Ie, Pro Evo games) tend to come sealed, as do Platinum releases ~ I am now pretty certain that this practice is to limit the resale value of certain games... Games like Suikoden IV and Ephemeral Fantasia which are very hard to get as it is...

Ephemeral Fantasia being another game where European copies are widely available saled (German copies) but UK ones aren't...

[goatdan]

I have also noticed that some games with higher print runs (Ie, Pro Evo games) tend to come sealed, as do Platinum releases ~ I am now pretty certain that this practice is to limit the resale value of certain games... Games like Suikoden IV and Ephemeral Fantasia which are very hard to get as it is...

Seriously, why would Konami care about the resale value of certain games? If they saw that the market was commanding $100.00 for a game they released last year, then if they wanted to keep prices down they could simply release another print run.

I still don't get what the big deal is. If Konami doesn't shrinkwrap their products, then Konami doesn't shrinkwrap their products and that is just how they come. I don't see this as some huge conspiracy.