DP's rarity guide values for SNES carts seem off ?

[anagrama]

sadly he is not the only one to think that way, i have been observing a lot of this attitude towards our Guide lately on other boards (even got bashed myself once for it), somehow people get the feeling we would think the DPCG is perfect, i know we do not think that way, but maybe we could do something to show people we aren't... dunno, just an idea (no idea what we could do about it though!)

I think I know the discussion you're referring to
Should have told them to come back and show us when they've written a better guide. (So we can then go search through hundreds/thousands of entries and find one or two that are (debatably) inaccurate, thus "invalidating the whole thing" )

I think one illusion that some people elsewhere seem to be under is that the DP Guides are "only" about the prices and rarity values, whereas I'm sure the vast majority here want them primarily to have all the information in one handy place and use them as intended - a guideline.
After all, the raw info is all in the database, so why would anyone buy them if it was just about the numbers?

[RangerG]

I think the DP guide is right on for what it says it is - a guide. It is an estimation and it takes into account wild finds, trade meets, buying in lots, etc. What you are also forgetting about Ebay is that you are talking about bidding on one game. What if I buy a nice lot off Ebay? If you divide the games by the price you will get some rares very inexpensively. Buying one game off of Ebay is the high-end way to buy and should not be the end-all of a game's price.

[Richter Belmount]

on the contrary I spotted chrono trigger and ff3 for snes for 25 bucks each at my local game crazy :P

[Anthony1]

ok, if the DP guide then is just a "guide", on games and how rare they are, and one shouldn't read too much into the prices listed, does anybody know of a really, really good "price" guide for games?


Ideally, I would love to see a guide that gave several different prices for every game, based on different scenarios.

For example, it would have a price for a complete game, as well as a loose cart. Sometimes the difference between the two can be super dramatic, and it would be good to have a decent idea between the valuations of loose carts and complete games. Also, it would be nice if they would include a "typical Ebay price".

I understand that Ebay prices are constantly fluctuating, and that one auction with somebody that dramatically overpays can throw things off, or a auction that for some reason nobody pays attention to, and the game goes for a really low price. But I would imagine that if you averaged the amount that a certain game sells for in 40 different auctions, you will get a pretty good idea of the average price that a game fetches on Ebay.


Another good category to include would be "retail". Like if the game was at a GameCrazy or a GameStop or EB games, what it would likely sell for.


That would be a sweet pricing guide. But I totally understand that the work involved in making one would be astronomical.


1. Complete price
2. Loose price
3. Typical Ebay Price
4. Retail price.

[brykasch]

Well Anthony it sounds like your looking for a Beckett for Videogames, and I hope there never becomes such a thing to be honest. My collection could be worthless tomorrow and I wouldn't care, as its the game I love, not the monetary part of it.

Having said that, most of the prices I have found to be pretty on, with soem exceptions. People always over pay for RPG's, and highly recognizeable games (Super Metroid, Super Mario All Stars , Zelda etc) but I say on about 80% of gmaes its right on imho. WE do need to start having values of boxed as well as loose though, makes things alot better.

[Anthony1]

Well Anthony it sounds like your looking for a Beckett for Videogames, and I hope there never becomes such a thing to be honest. My collection could be worthless tomorrow and I wouldn't care, as its the game I love, not the monetary part of it.

Having said that, most of the prices I have found to be pretty on, with soem exceptions. People always over pay for RPG's, and highly recognizeable games (Super Metroid, Super Mario All Stars , Zelda etc) but I say on about 80% of gmaes its right on imho. WE do need to start having values of boxed as well as loose though, makes things alot better.

I love the games to. I actually don't really collect games, I just play them. The reason that I'm trying to find out about prices, is to buy games that maybe I'm not actually interested in myself, but they happen to be valuable, and I can either sell them or trade them to get games or hardware that I want.

It's more of me wanting something to take with me to Garage Sales, Flea Markets, Retail stores, mom and pop stores, stuff like that. So that when I'm browsing around their selection, if I happen to see a cart that they are selling for a couple of bucks, that I know is worth like $30, that I will buy it, and later sell or trade it for a game or something that I really want.

I'm actually in the process of making my own little SNES and Genny list to use when I shop, but I'm certainly no expert.

[Griking]

Is it at least slightly possible for 'DPers' to admit that the Holy Guide MAY actually be flawed and is not the infallible Gospel almost all here take it to be?

I agree that the guide's prices aren't always reflection of a game's real worth. I know that many here disagree with me but I always believed that eBay is a much better guide because this it what people are actually paying for an item. Granted, you can't look at the absolute highest price that a game sells for on eBay and say that this is its value but these nuke bids DO factor into the average.

Either way though I love the guide and use mine regularly. Its great as a game rarity (not value) tool while out at tag sales and flea markets and its also a convienant way to keep a handy list of the games that I have and those that I need.

[brykasch]

No don't take that to mean that I was impling you were a profiteer, I wasn't trying to say that at all Anthony, I'm just saying I have seen it happen to far to many hobbies, and ruined em. I remember in the early 90's with Wizard and all the speculation in the comic book industry, drove alot of good companies out due to stupid profiteering.

I really don't use ebay as a comparison. I mean some games that are uber rare dont sell on Ebay for alot, but others that arean't can go for huge amounts for no reason. Its too wild imho. I use the guide as a jumping off point, but to mee the guide is more for information, than values. Hell I woulda never knew how much the extertainmen/ mountain bike rally game for snes was worth or the rarity if it wasn't for the guide and this site.

[imanerd0011]

I personally think that the DP guide prices are on the low end, but there rarity guide is pretty much dead (at least for the NES). Most of the games that you are talking about (Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy 1&2)can be found in the wild if you wait long enough, mainly because there are so many of them out there. They are in high demand, and many people don't want to wait to get one, so they pay top dollar on Ebay. That is why the prices are so damn high.
Although I do think that Megaman X3 is worth a good deal more than $25.

[vintagegamecrazy]

I agree that the prices are on the lower end, which is fine by me. Some prices may be wrong but that is why we should point them out and find a good average, I use the guide pretty much as the Bible, I know it's not perfect, but there are several others that do the same thing and they are noticably off and it's too hard to always remember your own prices for games and if I use the DP guides, I can usually get a good price on items. I will point out a few prices that should be changed.

Chrono Trigger, the average is usually around $35
Ogre Battle I have never seen it go for less than 40
Mega Man X3 has never gone for less than $40

The rest IMO are pretty close.

Keep up the good work all, don't let people discourage you, remermber beckets are done at a production level, the DP guide is done at a consumer level, and it is the best guage I've ever seen.

[Anthony1]

Keep up the good work all, don't let people discourage you,

I'm not sure if you are referring to me, but my post wasn't really a criticism of the rarity guide, I know that it's a imperfect science, and that tons of work went into that guide.

The reason I started this thread is because I was looking through the SNES prices and a number of them seemed to be really off. I've used the guides for alot of the other systems, and they seem pretty accurate, but the SNES prices seem way on the low side.

But I wasn't trying to discourage anybody or complain about it. I was just wondering if it was me, and if I was crazy or something. But it does appear that most agree that the SNES prices seem to be somewhat on the low side.

[Aussie2B]

Well, it's good that it's on the low side. Would you want it to be higher, causing everyone to be willing to pay more, and thus the prices of games go up? I think the prices should be as low as they can possibly be before they become unreasonable.

I've many times paid more than what the guide says, and even then I feel like I'm getting a good deal. While I don't think eBay is the be all to end all on pricing, I do consider it a lot when shopping. I look at completed auctions, find the lowest amounts a game went for, and if I can find it for even less than that, I feel I've done good. At least then I know I can sell it back and break even or make a profit. Granted, prices can go down, but since I rarely sell (only unwanted duplicates, which get sold very shortly after buying), it's no biggie if the value goes down on a game I'm keeping anyway.

The rarity guide is nice because it balances eBay with retail prices and reasonable prices you'll find in thrifts and such. Chances are if you get a game for what it says in the guide you've probably done well by eBay standards as well.

[D_N_G]

Lets also point out people that it has been almost a year since the prices were initially averaged out things tend to change over time

And as said many times in this post. If Ebay is your only guideline, then you have an askew view of pricing.

[Kid Ice]

But the most amazing thing of all, was the fact that Zelda: A Link to the Past was only valued at $5. Now that is really amazing to me. I must have gotten taken to the cleaners then, when I paid $15 for it. If that game is only worth $5, then I'm a horses ass!

Got mine at a flea for $2. It's been in my trade box for a while, but no takers yet.

The thing about Zelda and Super Metroid is they are very, very common. They were produced in great quantities and sold well. When a game is that common it increases the chances that you can get one at a good price. You would have a hard time arguing that they are not both R1.

As for price, I wouldn't call overpaying by ten dollars getting "taken to the cleaners", especially if the game was one you really wanted.

So your point here is lost on me. DP Guide value is $5, one person pays $10 more than that, so the guide price has to change?

As for other games you mentioned, like Final Fantasy 3 and Chrono Trigger, it's been well established that people have overpaid for those games on eBay. I agree that the guide prices are on the low side (even with the "prices are on the low side" disclaimer), but not enough that I would argue they should be changed. Not WAY too low.

[Anthony1]

But the most amazing thing of all, was the fact that Zelda: A Link to the Past was only valued at $5. Now that is really amazing to me. I must have gotten taken to the cleaners then, when I paid $15 for it. If that game is only worth $5, then I'm a horses ass!

Got mine at a flea for $2. It's been in my trade box for a while, but no takers yet.

The thing about Zelda and Super Metroid is they are very, very common. They were produced in great quantities and sold well. When a game is that common it increases the chances that you can get one at a good price. You would have a hard time arguing that they are not both R1.

As for price, I wouldn't call overpaying by ten dollars getting "taken to the cleaners", especially if the game was one you really wanted.

So your point here is lost on me. DP Guide value is $5, one person pays $10 more than that, so the guide price has to change?

As for other games you mentioned, like Final Fantasy 3 and Chrono Trigger, it's been well established that people have overpaid for those games on eBay. I agree that the guide prices are on the low side (even with the "prices are on the low side" disclaimer), but not enough that I would argue they should be changed. Not WAY too low.

Well, I think that games that are common as dirt shoud be R1's. And I would agree that Zelda and Metroid and Contra 3 and Castlevania 4 and games like that fit that description and they shoud be R1's.

However, I still think that you can have a R1 that is worth $15, or $20, or $25 or whatever.

A game can be extremely common and still command pretty good money for it.

[hydr0x]

However, I still think that you can have a R1 that is worth $15, or $20, or $25 or whatever.

A game can be extremely common and still command pretty good money for it.

NO. any R1 game can be found on a flea or pawn shop or whatever for 5 bucks with a little patience

[Kid Ice]

However, I still think that you can have a R1 that is worth $15, or $20, or $25 or whatever.

A game can be extremely common and still command pretty good money for it.

NO. any R1 game can be found on a flea or pawn shop or whatever for 5 bucks with a little patience

That wasn't what I meant.

If a game is R1 that increases the chances you can find it for a low price.

That doesn't mean it's automatically only worth a dollar or 5 dollars.

[lancelet]

I am totally confused by this post.

I know I'm a newbie (actually not really-just moved away and back and re-registered.) But as a diehard enthusiast of classic games i'm suprised that so many people have pointed towards "inaccuracies" in the DP Rarity Guide. It has some prices next to the rarities to give a ballpark figure.

If you are into retro gaming, then KLOV, DP, and MAME are possibly our greatest resources readily available. And free. In fact the DP Guide is an "R10" one-of-a-kind database as far as I can tell. So I'm really not sure what a handful of people find wrong with the prices.

Think the prices are too low? What are you comparing it to?
I've read the evidence from those that say the prices are wrong (again, not many posters-but more than I thought). And here's my measly take:
Data Collection like this will never be up-to-date as far as prices go. It can't possibly be.

Obviously Santulli and Crew realize that the prices are estimates. They have a disclaimer that covers it all. But I think many people seem perplexed that some prices are so far off of what they've seen either "in the wild" or online.
But there is no set price for any of these things. some people have pointed to market fluctuation as the reason for these precieved inaccuarcies. But if that was the only reason the prices would be spot-on right after each update.

My two cents on all this:

Ist cent; As they say in Politics: "It's' The Economy, Stupid"*
Or rather, classic game prices depend upon which economic model a certain system or game is located. There are many different economies at work in this hobby
:
Auction Economy-you sacrifice paying more for a wide selection.

Barter Economy- trade stuff you either don't want or have too many of for something you do what. ideally this is a symbiotic form of economics, as both partys forgoe monetary concerns and just swap stuff the other wants.

Retail Economy-only works when buying new. No concern here-just pointing out that retail is the economy as far as most are concerned. Almost all of the stuff we lust was retail at one time. But this economic model has huge downsides-slim profit for the seller and higher, yet most consistent price-point for the consumer. Why even bring it up? Because I want people to think about what percentage of your collection was truly obtained this way. I'll return to this in a moment...

Second-Hand Retail Economy-used games stores. Taxed and treated like retail products, only used. Priced at whatever the market will bear. Higher profit on a lower scale than Retail. products are used and prices are cheaper but nowhere near as consistent. And at a cost of less consistent quality.

Yard Sales and Flea markets-hard to find a specific item but the seller is largely unaware of the video game market. Sacrifice time, lack of customer service, and untested products. Possibly even Bootlegs or downright ripoffs at some flea markets. But is the only time you can meet a single person who will ask $100 for a $5 sofa and $5 for a $100 game.

damn I said 2 cents right?

2nd cent:

When you are comparing prices from what you see in DP's Guide and what you see in a store and notice you can't find a game for anywhere near the price listed, it doesn't mean that you have just proven this book wrong (as it never claims to quote correct prices). What kind of evidence is this?
Well, ask any quality scientist about "evidence" and be prepared to hear the terms Anecdotal and Empirical:

Anecdotal evidence is someone who tells you he just saw bigfoot. Empirical evidence is a dead bigfoot carcass. Why is that even important in this case?
Because all evidence presented here that the prices are wrong is anecdotal One person saying they are seeing game "X" for "Y" amount of money is anectotal evidence. A great deal found by someone at a flea market is anecdotal.

Empirical Evidence must be quantifiable. And only one of the economic models I listed above can even come close to consistently providing empirical evidence as to the value of games: The Retail Model. Empirical evidence: Sega's 2K Sports Franchise each sell new for $19.99. The price is preset in a very controlled and regulated environment. So there's an accurate value of a line of gaming titles. But again, what percentage of your collections are bought brand new? I'll use some anecdotal evidence and say around 10% or less. Just what I've noticed.

So what is a certain game worth?
It depend on the wildy differing aspects of of flea markets, second hand stores, auctions, trades, and various dynamics that are not quantifiable. So there really is no empirical source for valuations of these tousands of items that have been so carefully put together on this site.

This thread started with someone listing anecdotal evidence that certain games were undervalued, followed soon after by more anecdotal evidence that showed some of those very games to to be overvalued.

The truth is that some people are attempting to view the prices as empirical values that Joe Santulli gleaned from...ummm, aw, hell I can't even think of a metaphor or idea as to where one can find empirical data on old video game equipment pricing. The prices are gathered from various sources. almost all is accumulated through anecdotal means. There is no set value to the stuff we collect. It all depends on which path you took to aquire it.

It's a Rarity Guide, and as far as I know it is the most complete in the English language. So instead reading too much into the prices, just use it as the only one available. The valuations aren't outlandish. I doubt they've got Stadium Events listed for ten bucks. Throw in the rarity guide aspect and it a fantastic reference. If you see an R1 listed for six dollars right next to an R5 listed at the same amount, then that's a clue that that is one popular common and one not-so-popular uncommon. And that's the value of the guide. Rarity and possible valuations can be compared head-to-head. The deal you make is up to you. But at least you're most likely armed with more knowledge than the seller.










* I'm sure this is a common expression in all English speaking countries. If not, I'm not callling anyone here stupid. :P

[Anthony1]

However, I still think that you can have a R1 that is worth $15, or $20, or $25 or whatever.

A game can be extremely common and still command pretty good money for it.

NO. any R1 game can be found on a flea or pawn shop or whatever for 5 bucks with a little patience

Sure, in certain cities one can find these types of games for 5 bucks or less at various flea markets and pawn shops, but the reality is that in certain cities this is not the case. But your take regarding "patience" is probably pretty accurate. True, if somebody waits long enough, and searches long enough, they can eventually get most common games for low prices, but if you consider time to be money, then all that time searching around and the gas that you use. Think about that. The gas that you use. Gas is absolutely astronomical in price nowadays, if you have to drive all over town to search for particular games, when you add in the factor of the gas that you are using, the price could actually be much more than you would have imagined.


So I do agree that patience is a key, but I also feel that if you spend alot of time simply searching, well, that time is a factor that can't be discounted. Some people want things right away. Others can wait.

[drewbrim]

Well Anthony it sounds like your looking for a Beckett for Videogames, and I hope there never becomes such a thing to be honest.

There already is. It's called Video Game Collector, and there's a link to it on the front page of DP. It has different prices for loose and complete and it even has arrows next to certain games pointing up or down depending on whether the value is rising or falling. So if your afraid of the "video game beckett" get ready to run.

I'm pretty sure the mag started with the DP price guide (since Joe is listed as the price guide group editor) and then added some ebay inflations for certain popular games. Such as Earthbound $55, Final Fantasy 2 $30, FF3 $33, Mega Man X2 $50, Mega Man X3 $60 etc...