DP's rarity guide values for SNES carts seem off ?

[hydr0x]

So I do agree that patience is a key, but I also feel that if you spend alot of time simply searching, well, that time is a factor that can't be discounted. Some people want things right away. Others can wait.

see, this is the wrong approach, there are very few times where i am searching for a specific game, i'm going to fleas, i'm watching ebay, i'm looking though stores WITHOUT searching for a specific title, i would go there anyway so you can't add the gas costs or whatever to the price or even think about it, i have a wishlist of around 2500 titles that interest me, i don't care which of those i find as long as they fit into my collection. If you want a specific title right now, go to ebay and buy it, there is no other option for that! But there can and should never be a price guide for that, it makes no sense at all, if that price guide uses last weeks ebay prices than you don't need it as you could see that by yourself looking at the finished auctions

[jajaja]

What are the prices in the guide based on?

[digitalpress]

What are the prices in the guide based on?

EVERYTHING.

Game shops' "used" prices, our team's personal finds, trades, and deals, online game sites, online auctions, and common sense among the variables.

[digitalpress]

So I do agree that patience is a key, but I also feel that if you spend alot of time simply searching, well, that time is a factor that can't be discounted. Some people want things right away. Others can wait.

Wow.

Well listen, Anthony. All I can say is this is a COLLECTOR'S Guide. Collectors on the whole are very patient people. We'd all be broke if we needed to have everything we want right away. The Guide, and its prices, are for those who are willing to wait and want to pay a game's actual value, and not a penny above it.

Another thing I need to note here - this criticism has come up many many times over the years. At one point in the mid-90's we even dropped the prices (keeping only rarity ratings) from our book. That was clearly a bad idea from the response we got.

We do need to publish prices on the low side for another reason - so as not to prematurely over-value the games (or the market). We get complaints sometimes that our book is being used by shop owners and people are missing the great deals they used to get because vendors are now "in the know". Can you imagine the lynching we'd get if our prices were eBay values?

Bottom line: FOR collectors, BY collectors.

[Griking]

We do need to publish prices on the low side for another reason - so as not to prematurely over-value the games (or the market). We get complaints sometimes that our book is being used by shop owners and people are missing the great deals they used to get because vendors are now "in the know". Can you imagine the lynching we'd get if our prices were eBay values?
Bottom line: FOR collectors, BY collectors.

So are the prices in the guide kepy aritficially low in order to try keep collectable game prices lower than they should be or are you just saying that this is a side effect?

[digitalpress]

So are the prices in the guide kepy aritficially low in order to try keep collectable game prices lower than they should be or are you just saying that this is a side effect?

Artificially low? No. But when there are a dozen prices for a particular item (excluding very high and very low "outliers"), the lowest price is usually kept.

Again, quoting the oft-quoted text in the book and online guide FAQ:

If you’ve been collecting for awhile, inevitably you’ve run into a situation where you want to buy a game from someone and they tell you to “make them an offer”. Here’s the toughest part of the game: you don’t want to offer too low and insult the seller... and you don’t want to offer too high and screw yourself. OUR prices are on the low side, such that you are guaranteed not to insult anyone with our offer.

[vintagegamecrazy]

digitalpress wrote:
We do need to publish prices on the low side for another reason - so as not to prematurely over-value the games (or the market). We get complaints sometimes that our book is being used by shop owners and people are missing the great deals they used to get because vendors are now "in the know". Can you imagine the lynching we'd get if our prices were eBay values?
Bottom line: FOR collectors, BY collectors.

Joe about summed it up, we don't want to falsely inflate the prices of games so it's good to stay low.

Anthony I didn't mean anything towards you in my last post, I have seen other non fourm members flame the guide and database and I was gearing that message towards them.

Also if you want to point out errors, make a list of a few games and post them here, don't just say the whole guide is off for SNES. You can come up with a valid topic that way and the SNES editors can investigate into that topic and make necessary changes to the select few titles that seem off. I point out errors and descrepancies all the time and we can usually find a resolution and not get upset with eachother. I'm not trying to criticize you for you thread, don't take this wrong, I am just trying to offer some advice to you if you notice errors.

[anagrama]

Does this thread make anyone else want to bang their head against a wall?

[digitalpress]

Does this thread make anyone else want to bang their head against a wall?

No, why?

[anagrama]

No, why?

Eh, maybe not - I was referring to the "DP keeps prices artificially low to depress the market" stuff, but somehow missed the comments after that.

nm

[Griking]

We do need to publish prices on the low side for another reason - so as not to prematurely over-value the games (or the market). We get complaints sometimes that our book is being used by shop owners and people are missing the great deals they used to get because vendors are now "in the know".

I don't know, I kind of have mixed feelings about this. It sounds like what you're saying that you're doing here is going from just reporting the market value of a game to using the guide to actually manipulate market value.

I don't think that the prices in the guide should be kept down in any way just to ensure that collectors can still get the "great deals" that they're accustomed to getting. Shop owners using the guide to set game prices has to be expected as its popularity grows but I don't think that the prices in the guide should be modified in any way because of this.

[studvicious]

But the most amazing thing of all, was the fact that Zelda: A Link to the Past was only valued at $5. Now that is really amazing to me. I must have gotten taken to the cleaners then, when I paid $15 for it. If that game is only worth $5, then I'm a horses ass!

Well I won't call you that.. but I did get Zelda: Alttp for $4.99 at EB games a month or two ago.

[anagrama]

I don't know, I kind of have mixed feelings about this. It sounds like what you're saying that you're doing here is going from just reporting the market value of a game to using the guide to actually manipulate market value.

We do try to judge a fair "market value" for each game. It just happens that this is generally less than the going eBay rate, which for several reasons, mostly discussed above, is usually over-inflated. No 'manipulation' involved.

If you want to know the eBay price, look at eBay. If you want to know the DP-judged 'market value', check the books. Simple.

If the DP price was based on the going eBay rate, then that would be the starting price that dealers using the books would go by.

Would you prefer to be charged the 'going eBay rate' (or more) for every cart you find in Joe Blogg's Game Store? Thought not.

[Raedon]

There is not ONE game mentioned here that I did not get for $3-$5.. Your low is my high Anthony.

Zelda:ALTTP is VERY common and a simple find as well as almost everything mentioned but FF-II... Though I got that at a pawn for $4.00..

[Raedon]

man, I'm glad I don't collect baseball cards.

[Keir]

Well listen, Anthony. All I can say is this is a COLLECTOR'S Guide. Collectors on the whole are very patient people. We'd all be broke if we needed to have everything we want right away. The Guide, and its prices, are for those who are willing to wait and want to pay a game's actual value, and not a penny above it.

The problem is that every collector is different. You've got people who collect for completion and those who just want the good games so they can play them. There are the Iron Draggons who need everything sealed and mint and the scooterb23s who prefer loose games over boxed/complete ones.

More to the point, there is a whole range of collectors from people who pay top dollar so they can get exactly what they want when they want it to people who scour fleas and thrifts every day looking for the best deals. For the former group, ebaY is the best price guide. For the latter, a price guide would probably look like this:

All games = $1

I believe the DPG target audience is the "moderately hard-working" collector. Not quite the second scenario I described, but far removed from the first. If that doesn't describe you then keep that in mind and adjust the prices accordingly when shopping.

[digitalpress]

[I don't think that the prices in the guide should be kept down in any way just to ensure that collectors can still get the "great deals" that they're accustomed to getting. Shop owners using the guide to set game prices has to be expected as its popularity grows but I don't think that the prices in the guide should be modified in any way because of this.

They're not modified, my man. As I mentioned in one of my posts somewhere buried in this thread, we simply use the lower end and that's AFTER outliers are stripped out of the equation.

The philosophy is sound, trust me on this.

[scooterb23]

and the scooterb23s who prefer loose games over boxed/complete ones.

Awww shucks, and here I thought noone had noticed

[esquire]

However, I still think that you can have a R1 that is worth $15, or $20, or $25 or whatever.

A game can be extremely common and still command pretty good money for it.

NO. any R1 game can be found on a flea or pawn shop or whatever for 5 bucks with a little patience

That logic is a bit flawed. At fleas or pawns, any game can be purchased for $5, regardless of rarity, because most fleas and pawns don't distinguish between a R1 game and a R7 game, and charge a flat fee for all games for a certain console. For instance, you could pick up a Madden 96 and Aero the Acro-bat 2 for the Sega Genesis for $2.99 a piece. A flea, pawn or thrift isn't going to know the difference there. The only time they may charge more is for a recognizable franchise such as Mario, Zelda, etc. So if you're saying R1's should be priced at $5 because they are available at that amount at fleas and pawns, you would have to price R7s at the same price using that logic.

As for the ebay factor, I believe we as collectors need to start taking it into consideration as to the value of a game. More and more people are using ebay every day, and it is affecting our ability to purchase games at garage sales, thrifts, fleas and pawns. Every week I see threads in here about people complaining about how they can't get good deals because pawns and thrifts are using ebay as a guide to price their items. As the internet is readily available to most people, I see the same thing happening with garage sales. Also, more and more thrifts, like Goodwill and Salvation Army, are setting up their own online auctions. We can't ignore or dismiss the changing face of video game collecting.

As for those of you who dismiss ebay prices because of the irregularity and inconsistency, so should you dismiss thrifts, pawns and fleas as they are not accurate pricing systems either. Just because the local Salvation Army is selling Saturn sports games for $8 doesn't it mean they are worth that much, and just because I can pick up a R7 PSX game for $3, doesn't mean its only worth $3. You can't have it both ways.

I also agree with Anthony1 that less rare games can have higher prices than more rare games. Why? Simple - Popularity and Demand. Take for example the R7 game I found earlier at Salvation Army for $3 - Power Serve 3D Tennis. Now, that game is a R7 in the Advanced Guide but the value is only $10. There are nearly 3 full pages of games worth more than $10 but with a lower rarity on the online guide, including R1's and R2's. Thus, just because a game has a lower production run and there are less of them out there doesn't always translate into higher prices. This is clearly the case here. People won't pay a lot for sports game for the most part, even though its a R7. However, people will pay more for Mario Bros./Duck Hunt, Pac-Man, Combat, Sonic, etc. even though they are less rare. The average consumer doesn't care about rarity for the most part. They want the popular games. And as the popular games sell, so goes the price.

Additionally, rarities don't have specific pricing. For example, all R5's are not going to be priced the same. One game may go for $15 and another $50. Thus, just because a game is listed as a RX doesn't mean that its worth $X. There are price variations within a rarity rating itself. For example, Silent Bomber and Rollcage are both R6's for the PSX. However, Silent Bomber is valued at $20 while Rollcage is only valued at $8.

Thus, the Guides may be accurate as to rarity, but the prices are not always necessarily taking into account other factors besides rarity such as popularity and demand. Other considerations include regional factors and population density. Chances are if you are a gamer in say Montana, you are not going to find as many rarities at pawns, thrifts, fleas, etc as say someone in a more densely populated area.

So you have to take the guide for what it is. As stated in the Introduction, the dollar value is the "suggested purchase price." Assuming all things being equal, I think for the most part it serves that purpose.

[Griking]

Would you prefer to be charged the 'going eBay rate' (or more) for every cart you find in Joe Blogg's Game Store? Thought not.

No, I wouldn't but a buyer always wants to pay as little as humanly possible for any product they purchase. Besides, what I want to be charged shouldn't have any bearing on what a game is actually valued at and sold for either. A game is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for it. If a game is over priced then it won't sell. If it sells then it obviously wasn't over-priced.