E3: NINTENDO (Revolution and more)

[Lemmy Kilmister]

That we can download ROMs to the system while most people have already been doing this on their PC for years?

How many people were doing it legally? Actually, I think this is a good move; it's good to see Nintendo take this problem head-on, and not keep to draconian standards (*cough*RIAA*cough*). I'm sure "most people" would like to download ROMs legally, instead of having their computers confiscated.

Weither it's legally or not is besides the point. It's the fact people are still download Nintendo and other classic systems games for free and have been for years, it's nothing new. Nintendo is just trying to make it less taboo.

[Daniel Thomas]

Well, it seems the fabled "N-game" is over. Come and gone without as much as a whimper. I have to admit I've found the whole drama about the Revolution Conspiracy more interesting than anything at E3. Maybe I just grew up on too much Twilight Zone.

Am I wrong to feel disappointed that Nintendo showed so little of their next console? What we've seen - the black casing, the rom downloading - is nice, but I feel as though we're still being strung along. Wait just a little longer, then we'll show you the goods. Just a few days later. A few weeks. A few months. Whatever.

At the end of the day, the next Nintendo console will let us play slightly prettier versions of the games we already have. There will be the occasional blockbuster - Mario, Zelda, Metroid - that will prove a hit with the fans, but what else? Given production costs for this next cycle (up to eight figures?!), how many studios can afford anything but ports from Sony and Microsoft?

So there's that dread feeling again.

On the upside, the DS is looking terrific. I've been holding off on buying a new handheld, so I could see where Nintendo and Sony were going. Now it seems DS is really coming into its own. Free wifi Mario Kart and Animal Crossing? A new Mario Brothers? A new Advance Wars? Nintendogs? That electro-plankton-techno-thingy? Now that's better. That's the Nintendo I remember.

On Nintendogs, can you teach the dogs to hump one another? I know, that's juvenile. But, c'mon, admit it. You were thinking the same thing.

The more I think about it, if I were able to go to E3, I probably would have just avoided all the stupid hype and just hang out with Santulli and crew. I'd just plant myself on a couch and stay there.

[NintendoMan]

anyone else read the interview with Miyamoto over at IGN yet?? wow, lots of info in there, and it makes quite clear what Nintendo wants to achieve

Yes, I read it a few hours ago. I was so zoned in while reading it. It was probably the most zoned in while reading that I have been in in a while! Great article!!!!!!

I liked the part about them maybe making another Kid Icarus game!

[NintendoMan]

Look, I'm not a Sony or Microsoft fanboy. If fact, I actually hope Nintendo can turn things around this upcoimg generation and regain the lead, but with all this hush hush talk and behind the sceens crap it doesn't look like they're going to. It's E3 for chirst sakes, you need to hype the people up, not play prude.

Well of course you have heard this many times before, but Nintendo isn't releasing their system for at least another year or so. Neither is Sony with their PS3. Now while they did show more than Nintendo about their next-gen stuff, it still wasn't that much.

Like all the Nintendo executives say in interviews, they don't want to give anyways any ideas. Which of course is understandable. But why in the hell would they show everything about the system when it's still pretty far away? Now if nothing is shown at next years E3, or even before then, then we have problems. (Or they would be waiting longer to release it or something)

[NintendoMan]

How many people were doing it legally? Actually, I think this is a good move; it's good to see Nintendo take this problem head-on, and not keep to draconian standards (*cough*RIAA*cough*). I'm sure "most people" would like to download ROMs legally, instead of having their computers confiscated.

Which I think is a great idea. Since people are doing it, why not just start selling the stuff themselves.

I personally HATE ROMS! I do wish hard sentences were given out for anyone caught with them.

[evilmess]

That we can download ROMs to the system while most people have already been doing this on their PC for years?

example from cherryroms.com
Super Mario RPG (U) (IDSA Protected)
We are unable to offer this file due to Copyright restrictions (this will not change in the future!)

Nintendo is vigilant about keeping their games from being distributed on ROM sites so the argument that you can DL Nintendo ROM doesn't hold up. Sure you can DL tons of third party stuff but finding actual Ninteno ROMS isn't worth the hassle to search obscure ROM sites.

Of course there's always eBay right?
Well if the casual gamer still has their SNES then maybe $20 or $30 bucks for some janky loose Super Mario RPG isn't so bad unless you can get it for free on your Rev or at a fraction of the going eBay prices.

[Teo]

hey testament89 my post simply happened to come after yours did, but it wasn't directed to you ok. But I can see it might have looked like it, actually I just read the page before that and did a quick reply.

[lendelin]

Hydrox, you fell for dumb little marketing hype!

According to Miyamoto Nintendo believes Sony and Microsoft are going the exact same "road" (no doubt about that), and they also believe that road might be a dead end sometime in the future, that's why Nintendo wants to take a different road.

This is old news, we are hearing this for over a year now. Ask yourself very honestly if you believe that the XBox360 and the PS3 is a dead end of gaming in the future. Check this with reality. Which are the best selling GC games? Which are the best selling games overall for which system? Did the game industry expand? Did the game industry increase steadily its profit margins? Did the game industry sell more games in the last couple of years than ever before?

The PR strategy for the SNES, N64, and the GC was very different. Back then I heard N officials and Miyamoto say that the increased processing power of the new systems will open up possibilities for game designers to enhance gameplay and to innovate, the new powerful systems were the future of gaming. The same stuff I hear from MS and Sony who can afford to produce more powerful systems. According to N, now a less powerful system makes a revolution in gameplay possible which never occured anyway. There are no revolutions in gameplay, only very gradual, sluggish progress year by year.

...that's why Nintendo wants to take a different road.

Do you really think that is the reason N WANTS to take a different road? 'The end of the game industry is near?'

OR does N HAS to take a different road for economic reasons? N executives know the numbers, they know their decreasing marketshares, they know that they have to share the handheld market in the future with Sony.

N is already a niche company when it comes to the console industry. 2 out of 3 games for N systems in the top ten chart every month were GBA games. In the last four years they are behind in marketshares in the US and Europe against an upstart with image problems (MS), a powerful newbie, and their established fanbase and good reputation based on past merits couldn't prevent that.

They lost the race in the most important market, America, and only the poor showing of the Xbox in Japan saved them. MS is aggressive. They will gain marketshares in Japan as well. The Square Enix deal was the beginning; and MS can take big red numbers for long-term goals which N could never take and survive. The Xbox has momentum, and N stagnates at best.

What drives system releases, their design and PR strategies is a harsh business reality, not love, faith, hope or wishful thinking.

But now listen to your reasoning:

We'll have to wait and see, but as far as i can tell Nintendo is going a road that's not going to be destroyed if another big Crash happens and that's a good thing.

You say, IF the next big crash happens, THEN Ns different route will be a blessing.

Do you think that is realistic? Every year, and I mean EVERY year, people, insiders, developers, predict in the dumbest way the next crash. It won't happen unless something very dramatic (!) in the current set-up happens. The evergreen of the upcoming crash was unrealistic babble even in 1993/94 when Sega and N dropped dramatically in profitshares. Ns profitshares decreased by 30%, and then 40% as the dominant marketleader worldwide. Not even then a crash happened.

But more importantly, you took very uncritically the PR babble of Miyamoto and other N officials we hear for a year now (power and graphics are a dead-end, not the future of gaming) and put on top of it a potential crash. Suddenly, Ns decision not to compete with Sony and MS isn't only a smart move, no, it is a move which will SAVE N in an apocalyptic setting. Sony and MS go down, and N (mysteriously) will survive.

...but not only that:

...but i have the feeling Sony and Microsoft MIGHT be missing the right train soon.

Very soon, this mysterious future in which almost everything (except N) comes to an end, will prove that Sony and MS with their current strategies are far far behind N. N is the future of gaming! You internalized the words of Miyamoto, and additionally gave it a radical spin. PR startegies for devotees sometimes really work.

You tried to reason, and the reasoning is based on faith, hope, and wishful thinking. It is unrealistic. You are not as bad as some who talk already about games we haven't even seen yet and already paraise them as the future of gaming w/o the slightest reasoning; but don't go over the clouds and reach religious levels. N isn't paradise, and Miyamoto isn't God. N is just a game company like Sony and MS, nothing more and nothing less.

Games for the Revolution? I have no clue. What's to discuss?

The new controller? I have no clue. What's to discuss?

Price point? In all likelihood cheaper, but pretty mute to discuss until we have the price for the Xbox, and more importantly the price for the PS3.

Processing Power of the Revolution? We know that according to Iwata it will be three to four times more powerful than the GC, that means much less powerful than the Xbox360 and the PS3 which will be approximately at the same level. Draw your own conclusions what this means for games, developers/publishers who develop triple A titles for the two systems and try to port it to Ns system. (hint: they won't even try)

Downloadable N games? Nothing new, not a selling point for casual gamers, not even for the majority of classic game nuts like us. (in particular if its not free)

Wirelss? Nothing new, free service? nothing new.

This thread doesn't represent big excitement about the upcoming revolution, and therefore isn't the result of an effective PR-strategy. This thread is the result of absolute irrational posts and necessary corrections. This goes way beyond esxitement for a system. It is complete irrational hysteria of a devoted, almost religious fanbase who reacts in a very human way: try to make something positive or at least something neutral out of something negative. It is a way to deal with disappointment based on faithful beliefs; a reaction we have in every area of life (also in politics, there is even a stack of empirical research about it.)

Ns PR startegy failed: it created hyper-excitement of supporters who will buy the system anyway, and it created doubts for the gamers who has to be the focus of a PR startegy: the ones who will buy only one system, or maybe a second one much later.

N doesn't have to convice you or me to buy their system, because we will buy all three of them anyway. It has to convince my neighbor who is an extreme casual gamer and bought an Xbox two years ago. There is no doubt in my mind hat he will not go for the Revolution in two or three years.

...oh, I forgot, the Revolution is only for the 'true' gamer who likes to play 'true' games. There you have your niche market. I can only hope that RE4 published for a very powerful system, the GC, with great graphics, and a great seller for the system is recognized by N as a 'true' game.

[PS2Hawk]

FACT:
GAMECUBE games struggle to sell.
Ninntendo's vision of Innovation cost then major third party loose this generation with Gamecube.

All of a sudden Nintendo thinks Online is important ?

Mario is being used in the stupidest games possible....Mario DDR wtf ?

DS is getting remade N64 games just like GBA started with SNES games...


Another GameBoy ?

REV is 2 times faster than GC ? thats 3 times slower than current Gen PCs....


I am certian the NES SNES & N64 game downloasds won't be free. REV is basically a legal Emulator....

[Zubiac666]

DS is getting remade N64 games just like GBA started with SNES games...



REV is 2 times faster than GC ? thats 3 times slower than current Gen PCs....

argh....i have enough!
STFU!

sorry to be rude but name another N64 port for DS than "Mario 64"?
Oh.....there is NO other....so STFU!And looking at the E3 DS release list, there will be no other ports.

Inform yourself better than you would know that this "2-3 times faster than GC"-fact is bullcrap.It was denied by Nintendo-dudes themselves.

....anyways
major off-topic:
Gottal love Nintendo for making the new Gamecube Kirby 2Dish.watch the trailer. wh00t!
<(^^)> <('<') ('>')>

btw: I think that the Gamecube has an awesome lineup on E3.I don't care if Mario goes whoring in other titles.Mario Tennis(GC) is one of the best multiplayer games ever.
Also "Battalion Wars" and "Geist" are looking incredibly good.
They look ten times better than at last E3.

[Oobgarm]

sorry to be rude but name another N64 port for DS than "Mario 64"?
Oh.....there is NO other....so STFU!

Rayman? Ridge Racer?

[YoshiM]

sorry to be rude but name another N64 port for DS than "Mario 64"?
Oh.....there is NO other....so STFU!

Rayman? Ridge Racer?

PSP's doin' the same thing-porting Playstation games to it.
Let's all keep this in perspective: ports happen :P

[WanganRunner]

There's nothing wrong with ports, as long as there's original software too.

I mean, did anyone just really NOT want to be able to play Mario 64, with new stars, on the go? Does anyone find that NOT cool? I dunno, I think it's cool. I mean, it's only my favorite game of all time, updated with new content, and playable anywhere. Of all the ports, can you really complain about this one?

As for original software, the DS has no shortages, if you count what's coming out...

-New Sonic w/COOL usage of dual screens
-New Super Mario Bros. (all new 2D Mario title)
-Nintendogs
-Mario & Luigi 2
-Trace Memory
-Guilty Gear Dust
-Meteos

When the DS first came out, I wasn't sold on the idea, but now that they're seemingly finding a new use for the dual screen with each game that comes out, I'm going to be all over the thing. I think it's shaping up to be a very solid piece of hardware, especially with the WiFi functionality.

[ddockery]

Everyone is saying that Nintendo has shot themselves in the foot by not giving more details at E3, but I have yet to hear how. The Rev is still a year away at this point. Sure, people like us care, but the average gamer (IE the guys that make or break sales) don't. The majority of gamers aren't out reading E3 updates every other hour. When the system comes out, they'll buy it or not based on whatever, but you can be damn sure it won't be based on their E3 showing from "last year."

[mjluther]

N threw a couple of meat peices in the air, and suddenly an established fanbase with nostalgia and the underdog attitude makes a three star meal out of it.

That's insultingly dismissive. Pardon my lack of enthusiasm for the, roundly praised, showing of the 360, but, to me, it's a company offering the most market calculated system in history, and the vanilla gaming experiences to complement it, versus an established innovator showing little, but promising much. I'll take the promise of greatness over real mediocrity any day

[Avatard]

Pfft, DS a N64 port platform soley? Hardly....

But still, guess which game has sold the BEST. The Mario64 port? OMG! You mean consumers are willing to buy the N64 port in mass and Nintendo is willing to providing it? HOW DUMB! I'm a business expert too!

But please, spare us on all this trash spewing untill we hear more about what they are planning. Who on earth wouldn't want to know more? WE KNOW YOU DO. We KNOW very little has been released, want to take a guess as to why? Even they haven't decided yet, its STILL IN DEVELOPMENT. All this speculation is garbage.

So has there been any more releases since the original one at E3? I'd love to hear more, but from the horses mouth only.

[rbudrick]

IGNcube: Will you make Kid Icarus for Revolution?

Shigeru Miyamoto: Well, I'm actually working really closely right now with the director of the [original] game. Now, whether or not when we get the Revolution all set up and everything is finalized, well who knows? That might be one of those characters where everybody says, "Hey, with the way our console is designed, that would be a perfect match." My question to you is, if we made this game would you buy it?

IGNcube: Absolutely.

Shigeru Miyamoto: Well, we obviously can't ignore that. Okay, we'll get the Eggplant Wizard coming back.

That's the best damn thing I've ever heard! Unfortunately, I'll have to believe it only when I see it.

-Rob

[Lemmy Kilmister]

Well, I'm actually working really closely right now with the director of the [original] game.

Wasn't the director of the first two Kid Icarus games Gunpei Yokoi? If so, I don't see how Miyamoto could be working with him seeing as he's been dead since 1997.

[tylerwillis]

What? You didn't know that the N guys could raise the dead? I thought everyone knew that.

Random comment, I have no idea about the original director.

[goatdan]

Analog-5200.
Rumble-Outrun
Wireless-? I have wireless (RF) 2600 joysticks. I'm guessing those would be the first wireless game controllers.

The 5200 analog wasn't too much of a gameplay difference, which is why it wasn't used again until the N64, when they made it worth having. OutRun doesn't count, as I don't think your average user was running out and buying OutRun arcade machines for their home. And I meant true wireless. RF has been around for a long, long time, and it sucked.

Analogue controllers have been around for a coon's age. What matters is games with analogue sensitivity. Pac-Man's arcade controls were analogue, but the game was not analogue sensitive. Things like SEGA GT, however, are, and that makes all the difference between just pushing the fuel pedal and pushing the pedal to the metal or just a slight amount of petro.

I have a Ms. Pac-Man machine, and unless it was redesigned between the two machines, I would assume Pac-Man is just as not analog as Ms. Pac-Man is. I've never heard of Pac-Man having analog controls before. Are you sure?