Type of plastic in NES cases and sleeves...

[studvicious]

what a load of crap - they have records - they have to - no company would dump engineering records

Would you believe that NASA has done the very same thing? ALL of the schematics(?) and details of the rockets pre-shuttle were destroyed or lost. If/when they decide to go to the moon again they would have to start from scratch - fact. Pretty crazy.

[heybtbm]

PVC can and does have damaging effects over time. It's b/c of the chemical make-up. Polyvinyl-chloride (PVC) releases chloride gas over time which can damage items around it. It's effects were not known until fairly recently though. There are also some possible health and environmental effects. It was used a lot during the time these sleeves would have been produced. It wouldn't necessarily have an effect on how the game played, but on the cosmetics of the cart (label). Plus, I'm thinking about extra long-term storage, and hopefully passing this collection on to my son one day.

I'm not even sure where to start...

I mean no offense, jdchess, when I say your assumptions are way off base.

I think what we have here is someone taking a few "facts" out of context and mixing it with a little 1st semester organic chemistry.

I'm a chemist. Let me assure you that the unbelievably small amount of any chemical released after long term breakdown of PVC couldn't possibly damage the label, the ink on the label or the adhesive used to stick the label to the cartridge. That's assuming the PVC is breaking down in the first place...which it isn't. Under ambient conditions, the sleeves (and cartridges for that matter) will last longer than any of us here.

[jdchess]

PVC can and does have damaging effects over time. It's b/c of the chemical make-up. Polyvinyl-chloride (PVC) releases chloride gas over time which can damage items around it. It's effects were not known until fairly recently though. There are also some possible health and environmental effects. It was used a lot during the time these sleeves would have been produced. It wouldn't necessarily have an effect on how the game played, but on the cosmetics of the cart (label). Plus, I'm thinking about extra long-term storage, and hopefully passing this collection on to my son one day.

I'm not even sure where to start...

I mean no offense, jdchess, when I say your assumptions are way off base.

I think what we have here is someone taking a few "facts" out of context and mixing it with a little 1st semester organic chemistry.

I'm a chemist. Let me assure you that the unbelievably small amount of any chemical released after long term breakdown of PVC couldn't possibly damage the label, the ink on the label or the adhesive used to stick the label to the cartridge. That's assuming the PVC is breaking down in the first place...which it isn't. Under ambient conditions, the sleeves (and cartridges for that matter) will last longer than any of us here.

Oh...you're a chemist? I suppose I should just take your word for it then huh?

I'm not a chemist, but my uncle is and he also worked for a plastics manufacturer for over 25 years. We've had some long talks about this very subject and everything I've said, I can back up with research and lab results. Also, I think you would be in a fairly small group that doesn't believe that PVC breaks down and can release harmful amounts of chloride gas. This has been observed and documented time and time again. Now if you would like to point us towards some research that backs up your claims, I would be happy to take a look, but you need more than just a statement. Sorry. x_x

[suckerpunch5]

Well, I'm not a chemist, but I am a physicist and, perhaps even more importantly in this case, a coin collector. Polyvinylchloride (PVC) is a BIG deal in coin collecting. Damage to coins from PVC is well documented. No serious coin collector would even think about using PVC plastic cases for their coins for an extended period of time.

Problems with PVC arise from the release of hydrogen chloride gas at high temperatures. Hydrogen chloride gas then can react with humidity in the air to form hydrochloric acid, which is extremely corrosive. Also, direct contact with PVC can deposit sticky plasticizers onto coins.

The effects of PVC holders on coins has been investigated and documented by Dr. Thomas W. Sharpless, a Chemistry Proff. at the University of Hartford in a paper titled "Report on the Relationship Between Polyvinylchloride and Coin Corrosion." If someone could get in touch with him, perhaps he could help determine if game cases and sleeves are made of PVC.

Since some people on this board don't think this is actually a problem, I will also cite "The Coin Collector's Survival Manual" by Scott A. Travers, which on page 219-223 gives a detailed description of PVC coin holders, and the damage they will do to coins.

Coin holders are sealed pretty good, so the hydrogen chloride gas is allowed to acumulate inside the holder, leading to a significant amount (relatively speaking) of hydrochloric acid. Game sleeves, on the other hand, are loose fitting and allow the hydrogen chloride gas to dissapate. At least, I think they would.

Cases that snap closed are another matter entirely, and until we can figure out what they are made of, should probably be avoided entirely.

To sum up, I probably will still use sleeves, but I might avoid cases until we can find out what kind of plastics are being used. Of course, if you have any doubts, as preciviously mentioned, cardboard is probably safe. As long as it doesn't contain sulfur!

[heybtbm]

PVC can and does have damaging effects over time. It's b/c of the chemical make-up. Polyvinyl-chloride (PVC) releases chloride gas over time which can damage items around it. It's effects were not known until fairly recently though. There are also some possible health and environmental effects. It was used a lot during the time these sleeves would have been produced. It wouldn't necessarily have an effect on how the game played, but on the cosmetics of the cart (label). Plus, I'm thinking about extra long-term storage, and hopefully passing this collection on to my son one day.

I'm not even sure where to start...

I mean no offense, jdchess, when I say your assumptions are way off base.

I think what we have here is someone taking a few "facts" out of context and mixing it with a little 1st semester organic chemistry.

I'm a chemist. Let me assure you that the unbelievably small amount of any chemical released after long term breakdown of PVC couldn't possibly damage the label, the ink on the label or the adhesive used to stick the label to the cartridge. That's assuming the PVC is breaking down in the first place...which it isn't. Under ambient conditions, the sleeves (and cartridges for that matter) will last longer than any of us here.

Oh...you're a chemist? I suppose I should just take your word for it then huh?

I'm not a chemist, but my uncle is and he also worked for a plastics manufacturer for over 25 years. We've had some long talks about this very subject and everything I've said, I can back up with research and lab results. Also, I think you would be in a fairly small group that doesn't believe that PVC breaks down and can release harmful amounts of chloride gas. This has been observed and documented time and time again. Now if you would like to point us towards some research that backs up your claims, I would be happy to take a look, but you need more than just a statement. Sorry. x_x

Give me a break. Nowhere do I say PVC doesn't break down. I said it isn't breaking down if your games/sleeves are being stored at ambient (room temp/humidity) conditions...which I would imagine are the conditions almost every collector keeps their games at. Simply put: If you keep your games in your home, the rate of PVC breakdown is slowed so much that it is not releasing a quantifiable amount of anything.

Add that with the fact that games/sleeves are not being kept in a closed system. Any chemical released is being dispersed into the atmosphere instantly.

Take those two points and you can come to the simple conclusion that the PVC breakdown cannot hurt your games/labels.

I also like how I'm supposed to find research to "backup my claims" yet I haven't made any claims. All that I've said is simple, common sense chemistry. It's not research or breakthrough thinking. PVC under ambient conditions breaks down as such a slow rate, it cannot possibly damage anything near it. If you keep your games with sleeves sealed somehow, you might have a problem...but then again we don't even know that this plastic is PVC.

I was trying to offer an educated opinion and answer your question...not start another boring "argument" on the internet. Tell your uncle what I've said and see if he doesn't agree.

[jdchess]

That's assuming the PVC is breaking down in the first place...which it isn't.

PVC under ambient conditions breaks down as such a slow rate, it cannot possibly damage anything near it.

There's a big difference in something NOT breaking down at all and breaking down SLOWLY. Don't you think? Also, I understand your point about them not being sealed, but we are not only talking about loose fitting sleeves, but snap-shut cases. I would think that would be considered as "sealing." Also, even sleeved NES games, I prefer to keep in plastice bags to keep the dust off of them. So, this is also considered sealed. At least I would think so.

Read suckerpunch5's comments above about coins. He makes some good points.

Also, direct contact with PVC can deposit sticky plasticizers onto coins.

Even if all this PVC talk is a rumor, which its not, why would anyone chance it? My original point was simple...you do NOT want to use anything with PVC to store anything of value for the long term, or short term for that matter. I think most collectors of any kind would agree with me on that.

As far as the black NES sleeves go, they are not PVC as the density is to low. Just make sure you buy polypropelene or polyethelene plastic cases and you will be fine. These two plastics are totally neutral and considered archival safe for storing prints, slides, negatives, etc. (I'm a photographer).