2D Versus 3D

[njiska]

Several times this week i've heard many people talk about how 3D gaming killed off the fun of 2D games. Specifically i've heard a couple of Generic "3D Zelda ruined the series" comments. On several forums i've heard people claim that 3D killed gaming. Personally i think that anyone with that opinion has his head up his ass and is a pig-headed curmudgeon who is so biased they can't give 3D a fair shake. Mostly i think people have that opinion because of current industry focus on graphics.

I think that 3D helped to create better games. Metal Gear is an example of this. Classic 2D MG was amazing and was leagues ahead of it's time. But MGS is one of the most beautiful games ever made and i'm not talking graphics. MGS had an amazing story, cinematic presentation, solid gameplay and is widely considered to be the best game on the PSX and is in the running for the best game of that era.

I think 3D was a creative tool that the industry needed to thrive, but i know some people out there have a different opinion.

So i really want to know, does anyone think that 3d is the root of all gaming evil and that we'd have been better off to stay 2D? I'm not talking about updating classic series either, i mean should we have never gone 3D?

Oh and in case anyone is wondering, i'm not some childish 2D hater either. For example i love Metal Slug just how it is (although i'm open to a 3D update so long as it kept it's gameplay and style like Contra: Shattered Soldier did.) and i love my classic 8 and 16-bit era games as well.

[Phosphor Dot Fossils]

I don't care if a game is two-dimensional, three-dimensional, or pan-dimensional so long as it's fun.

[Sylentwulf]

Kind of pointless poll. Noone is going to say one or the other is the ONLY choice for them

Do I think they should still be releasing SOME 2-D games? Yes. Would I prefer all 3d games stop being released? Obviously not.

[jajaja]

Well said Phosphor
For some games i prefer 3d, for others i prefer 2d (fighters etc.) and for some i prefer both (FPS i.g).

[NintendoMan]

Well when a game is done right in 3-D, my opinion Ocarina of Time and Mario 64 and Mario Sunshine then I think lately I have been having alot more fun with 3-D games.
But then again, OVERALL I have way more 2-D games that I like.

[Slave to the Parasites]

I've given 3D 10 years. I think that's more than a fair shake. I used to like 3D when it was something new and exciting. But it is no longer new or exciting and now it bores the shit out of me. I have come to realize that 3D has always been about attracting people to gaming that should have never picked up a controller.

These nongamers are buying bad games and ignoring good games. With the increasing cost of gaming with the next gen, I don't think it will be long before they will tire of throwing out tons of cash for the same games they played last gen only with new coat of paint. And I believe once they put down their controllers, that is it, they are gone for good.

The game industry will crash and I will predict that will happen in about 10 years. In that time, if Nintendo, Sega, Capcom, etc. haven't become more like EA and Activision, they won't be around. What will these companies do to keep us interested in video games when the nongamers are gone? Will they focus on gameplay over graphics? Will there be anybody left that can create and innovate new genres? Will there be enough gamers still around to even bother? I doubt it. So, yeah, I think 3D was a huge mistake, and I don't think it will be long before that becomes obvious to everyone.

[esquire]

Kind of pointless poll. Noone is going to say one or the other is the ONLY choice for them.

I agree. The poll is rather vague and overbroad. Some games are going to be better 3D (FPS for example) while some may be better 2D (Shmups).

I'll take both please.

[njiska]

Hey i realize that obviously some things are better suited for 3D, but that doesn't change the fact that i still hear alot of people bad mouthing it. Those are also the same people who hate FPS games and generally anything that uses 3D. But that's not what the disscussion is about.

The whole disscussion is about how 3D changed the industry. Many people beleive it is responsible for the massive decline in quality over the last few years because the industry has become more focus on better 3D processing then on gameplay and story elements.

The question is should we have stayed with 2D or was the switch to 3D worth it? I think it was because 3D allows for better gameplay elements, the more realistic look increases immersion, and it allows you to tell a more cinematic story.

[chrisbid]

i want variety, there are more games released on a given week now than at any other time in the history of the hobby, yet there is very little variety. there should be a lot more 2D games out there.

[Jumpman Jr.]

Both are equally as good for me, so I couldn't even vote. My top 6 favorite games consist of 3 2D games and 3 3D games. Its not about how many dimensions there are in a game, its about how good it is.

[FurinkanianFrood]

As for the topic at hand, the problem with 3D is:
1. It is used very badly.
2. It has stifled development of 2D games.

I love some of the best 3D games.

3D didn't harm Zelda. I like OOT better than any Zelda except the first.

Bad game companies are the problem, not 3D.

The game industry will crash and I will predict that will happen in about 10 years.

That long? I think it will be much sooner..... around 2008 maybe, or sooner if some of my (so-called crazy) ideas are correct.

I don't think the industry as we know it is in very good shape, of the console manufacturers, only Nintendo is actually turning a profit. Sony and MIcrosoft have been hemorrhaging money for a long time with their consoles, and I don't see an end to that.

In fact, I have to question the wisdom of corporations such as those even being involved in the market. I doubt they will ever see much benefit from those enterprises.

The Japanese game market is a wreck. The US economic situation will get worse before it gets better.

I don't think that a $450 dollar PS3 would sell well enough to prevent Sony's console related losses from multiplying significantly.

It was bad enough when they were losing $$ on each system sold, but what happens when they aren't even selling through sufficiently.

MIcrosoft is making arrogant mistakes as well, what with the stupid two tier scheme. What do they take people for?

Something will be horribly wrong with the PS3 launch. WIth all of the various possible problems with price point and manufacturing of hardware and software I think it's pretty bleak. And for the sake of gaming, it had better be.

The 360 has issues, though it looks less ridiculous than PS3 in a number of ways.

WIth all of the 3rd party support going to consoles that cost $400+ (hence small user base early on), combined with increased development costs on those consoles, and a probable lack of significant improvement of the last-gen in the first wave of games, devs will be hit hard.

Negative perception at launch can be fatal to anyone. Even Sony.

Of all the console manufacturers, I think Nintendo would be the only one to survive the crash.

The DS is outselling PSP more than 2 to 1 in Japan. Software support is picking up, as are US sales. PSP support is very weak, which is understandable when you consider that Nintendo still controls 90%+ of portable market share in Japan.

I think that the industry goes in long cycles of death and rebirth, and that nearly everyone is (understanbly) oblivious to this because we are only in the second cycle.

Arrogance caused the first crash. What are Sony, MS etc. if not arrogant?

Don't underestimate Nintendo, they may have just been waiting for the right time to act. IMO, there has been no window in which timing and other companies mistakes have aligned properly to provide a chance to strike. Until now.

Nintendo is simply waiting for a Sony console to fail. If not PS3, then the one after that.

Nintendo has survived this long. They can wait for Playstation to grow old and die, which may be sooner rather than later.

[FurinkanianFrood]

The game industry will crash and I will predict that will happen in about 10 years.

That long? I think it will be much sooner..... around 2008 maybe, or sooner if some of my (so-called crazy) ideas are correct.

I don't think the industry as we know it is in very good shape, of the console manufacturers, only Nintendo is actually turning a profit. Sony and MIcrosoft have been hemorrhaging money for a long time with their consoles, and I don't see an end to that.

In fact, I have to question the wisdom of corporations such as those even being involved in the market. I doubt they will ever see much benefit from those enterprises.

The Japanese game market is a wreck. The US economic situation will get worse before it gets better.

I don't think that a $450 dollar PS3 would sell well enough to prevent Sony's console related losses from multiplying significantly.

It was bad enough when they were losing $$ on each system sold, but what happens when they aren't even selling through sufficiently.

MIcrosoft is making arrogant mistakes as well, what with the stupid two tier scheme. What do they take people for?

Something will be horribly wrong with the PS3 launch. WIth all of the various possible problems with price point and manufacturing of hardware and software I think it's pretty bleak. And for the sake of gaming, it had better be.

The 360 has issues, though it looks less ridiculous than PS3 in a number of ways.

WIth all of the 3rd party support going to consoles that cost $400+ (hence small user base early on), combined with increased development costs on those consoles, and a probable lack of significant improvement of the last-gen in the first wave of games, devs will be hit hard.

Negative perception at launch can be fatal to anyone. Even Sony.

Of all the console manufacturers, I think Nintendo would be the only one to survive the crash.

The DS is outselling PSP more than 2 to 1 in Japan. Software support is picking up, as are US sales. PSP support is very weak, which is understandable when you consider that Nintendo still controls 90%+ of portable market share in Japan.

I think that the industry goes in long cycles of death and rebirth, and that nearly everyone is (understanbly) oblivious to this because we are only in the second cycle.

Arrogance caused the first crash. What are Sony, MS etc. if not arrogant?

Don't underestimate Nintendo, they may have just been waiting for the right time to act. IMO, there has been no window in which timing and other companies mistakes have aligned properly to provide a chance to strike. Until now.

Nintendo is simply waiting for a Sony console to fail. If not PS3, then the one after that. The PSP has made very little progress against the Nintendo. And as time goes on the momentum against the PSP continues. Look at JP sales figures.

Nintendo has survived this long. They can wait for Playstation to grow old and die, which may be sooner rather than later. I hope.

[djbeatmongrel]

i cant zote on this becuase both styles have merit and work well for certain game types and work crapily for others. as long as its good it doesnt matter to me

[Push Upstairs]

Both are good.

[RCM]

It all depends on the genre. Racing is far superior in 3D. Platformers are better in 2D. All depends on genre and taste. It's too bad that 3D dominates though. We need balance!

THE ONE, THE ONLY- RCM

[BrokenFlight]

Just think of how bland the market would be if we'd had another 10 years of nothing but 2D games.

As has been said before, different styles for different genres are what's best.

[njiska]

Of all the console manufacturers, I think Nintendo would be the only one to survive the crash.

I think i've said this before but even though i think Nintendo is fucking up with the Revolution launch, they are the only manufacturer that isn't actively contributing to a major crash. Sony and Microsoft are quickly pushing gaming in the the high price range. With $400+ systems and game development costs rising 20% they're going to eventually cause a sharp rise in price and they're going to run all the big studious are going to over saturate an unstable market causing what will most likely be the worst the industry has ever seen. And yes all of these higher development costs are because of the, not entirely unreasonable, demand for better graphics.

But i don't think it will crash in the next generation. In 2010 when the following generation comes along it will either bring the industry back from collapse or push it so far over the edge that the industry will destory almost every company in it.

Only companies like Nintendo and MS with their vast resources will survive. EA will buy it's self into a grave and drag Ubisoft down with it. Majesco is already pretty much fucked, same goes for take-two if any more scandles happen. Japanese companies might do better but they're still gonna bite a painfull bullet.

[Dr. Morbis]

I've given 3D 10 years. I think that's more than a fair shake. I used to like 3D when it was something new and exciting. But it is no longer new or exciting and now it bores the shit out of me. I have come to realize that 3D has always been about attracting people to gaming that should have never picked up a controller.

Now there's a quote! "I feel the same way"

However, you're dead wrong about there being another crash. There are new people (or should I say consumers) born every day. I'm sure people said the same thing about movies when color and specail effects started pushing plot and character development into the background. I think the state of Hollywood movies right now is much much worse than the state of gaming... but people still line up to see every new wretched movie.

[Xexyz]

I like both styles but do have a preference for 2D over 3D. I only ask that there was a little more flexability with the current market. 2D is almost extinct on home consoles. If 2D could at least compose about 10% of all console game releases (in the West of corse, Japan doesn't have this problem) in a generation, then I would be much happier.

[Wavelflack]

I actually expected to see more people pining away for the old days of 2D. Color me surprised.

Some people DID show up to the 2D snob party, though. Good for them!
At any rate, 3D is not a cheap tool to ensnare the dumb common folk (as has been previously inferred). Elitist points of view such as this are ridiculous. I'm sure somewhere there is a group of people who are monochrome purists, text adventure purists, etc.

"Back in my day..."

ZZzzzz...