Messiah's NEX System: Summary of Claims and Facts

[lendelin]

Jagasian, I applaud you. Already back in September I thought your criticism of the NEX was knowledgeable, well reasoned, valid, to the point, rational, very informative, and incredibly helpful making a buying decision.

About this follow-up thread: Again, I think it is justified. Sometimes people react to rational criticism in an irrational way, defensive, apologetic, with misinformation, and countered with personal attacks. I think it is not the worst idea to remind some posters of it.

Simple answer is, don't buy it if you don't like it. Nothing wrong with that. I have said on more than one occasion to people that I use an NES toaster style system for NES carts. I use the NEX for Famicom stuff because it's quick and efficient when I want to check out a game.

I had a feeling there would be issues with this in the hardcore community, but it's more geared towards a casual gamer. If you knew anything about development and how expensive it would be to create a 100% accurate NES system without infringing on the sound chip or any other copyrights, I would LOVE to see it.

It's true that a lot of times in the classic gaming community, people eat their own, and this is another case of a company trying to support the community, and someone like yourself is basically saying it's one big lie. If I didn't think you were wrong about this, I would not even bother to post, but I have to say something about the level of ridiculousness I am seeing from someone who just despises the system to no end.

I did not make these promises ro assumptions. I asked, and I gave answers. If they were misconceiving to you, so be it. You can't please everyone, but I am 100% certain that Messiah is dedicated to pleasing the consumer. If they decided to keep everyone's money and not deliver, then you could say something about this, but as of right now, you have been beating a dead horse for months.

DreamTR, this is not a matter of liking or disliking a system, or 'buy it or not' which is a general way of weaseling out of taking responsibility for misinformation. With your logic criticism of a product would never be possible. It is a matter of false statements based on facts, false impressions and the quality of a product.

You stated it is NOT a NOAC used in the system, it turned out to be one. It is as simple as that. There were high hopes that the NEX is better than the common Famiclome, it is not based on fact one. It turns out that the system has severe probs with graphics and sound, and Jagasians skepticism and careful evaluation hit the nail on the head. It is as simple as that.

You indeed were "asked, and you gave answers," but the wrong ones. You called Jagasian "arrogant," but it turns out that neither was he the arrogant nor the misinformed one of you two.

Please don't turn tables and make of Jagasian a "crusader" with a 'ridiculous hatred' for the system, nor try to make him an enemy of the hardcore retro-gaming community; because this would be hypocrisy at its finest, wouldn't it?

[Damaramu]

I also thank Jagasian for bringing this up.

I took the time to read the reviews on the NEX and I even waded through the pages of technical discussions for the NEX and I gotta say I'm glad I waited on buying this machine.

I was almost fooled by Messiah's advertising. I feel bad for the people who shelled out the $60+ for a less than stellar NES clone. Ah well, maybe if they release a 2.0 ver. of the system. Emphasis on maybe.

[lendelin]

Why does this post exist when there is already a thread dealing with the Generation NEX where these pointless "arguments" are thrown about. We get that you hate this product. Welcome to the free world, where you are not forced to buy anything you don't want to. I don't know why you are going on this crusade, Jagasian. Are you going to change the world for the better by explaining something that everyone knows? Is your flagrant flame war that you have spread across several forums going to please anyone but yourself? It is people like you that bring down quality forums such as this one.

This is not only ridiculous, it is pure nonsense.

...and for your information, I'm not into emulators or famiclones and got a pretty wrong impression about the quality of the NEX, so not evryone "knew already." Have some mercy with not very knowledgeable guys like me.

BTW, "part of the free world" is not only to buy whatever you want but also to gather information for buying decisions based on criticism everyone is free to express...or do you get your information from the Holy Spirit itself?

If you want to be a troll, you should go with the rest of your kind at IGN or gamefaqs

Thanks for spreading the culture of intolerance and creating outcasts, something all too common at IGN and gamefaqs produced by fanbois.

[badinsults]

I'm sorry, but I still see no reason to create this thread, other than to produce flame wars. All the facts about the Generation NEX are posted in the Generation NEX thread. I can understand that people are upset about it, but I still think that people can be more civil about it. I mean, it is just video games.

[lendelin]

I'm sorry, but I still see no reason to create this thread, other than to produce flame wars. All the facts about the Generation NEX are posted in the Generation NEX thread. I can understand that people are upset about it, but I still think that people can be more civil about it. I mean, it is just video games.

I'm very sure it is not intended as a "flame war," nor is it one or will it become one unless someone "flames." (like calling others a troll, to suggest he should go simply away, or accusing someone creating a flame war which doesn't exist by flaming the poster)

I see a very good reason to create this thread. The lesson to be learned is not to overreact, listening and responding to reasoning, never be patronizing or arrogant as a substitute for reason, and not to indulge in self-righteousness when actually an apology is called for.

[Niku-Sama]

do you have any pictures of a more modern board with the fixes that are made in your pic on the printed circuit board?

[Stark]

Thank you Jagasian for being so thorough in you investigation. It saved many some hard earned money on a poorly made (but pretty looking....ohhh ahhhh worthless) Fami-clone.

DreamTR- you were wrong and way too sure of yourself in the beginning and now you still have to post excuses for your attacks on Jagasian. Shame on you.

[studvicious]

Messiah specifically said it was not a NOAC?

It is a NOAC?

Sounds like a lie to me.

This is pretty much all that needs to be said really.

[phreak97]

whoever said 'it's just video games' is talking crap, it's not just games we're talking about here, it's value for money, and when you bring in the money factor, the fact that it is just a video game console is irrelevant.
eg. you buy yourself a donkey kong tournament cart for $500, but when it comes, it's just a regular old donkey kong cart, but hey, it's just video games, so who cares. apparently, by that logic, it doesnt matter if the information given out to the potential buyers is a pile of horseshit.

i myself was very tempted to get a nex, i thought "a clone, but not a noac pos? this might actually be worth my while" but then it comes out and it is definately a nes on a chip, and whats more, they didnt even wire it correctly. theres a pin called /A13 which is half the reason many games dont work. instead of connecting it to the cartridge slot, they connected it right to ground. there is at least one game which holds this line at 5 volts, meaning as soon as you put that game in, you've connected 5v and ground.. how fun.
it doesnt look like they even tried.
this is in every aspect a typical famiclone.
"The console seems to be good quality, and sturdy"
my yobo is plenty sturdy, and fami to nes adaptors are cheap enough. definately less than the markup the fami slot gives the nex.
"it has wireless"
great, youre connected to a noac, with no wires! so much better..

i dont believe the crap about not posting a compatability list due to there being games which didnt work but now do, the compatability list is way to similar to that of the neo fami for it to be a completely original list. that and the only real difference between a nex and a regular clone is the extra cart slot and the wireless.

believe it or not, the nex is not the first clone to have both cart slots, i saw one a while back in a giant list of clones.

it is not as simple as 'if you dont like it, dont buy it'
you cant know if you like it untill you have bought it, so the next best thing is using the information given to you to make a decision on whether or not the product is what you are looking for. kinda hard when there are untruths and half truths in the mix.

when the facts are given out initially, people take them and run, you cant plan a product, release information, then take it back later, it just doesnt go back, it's like trying to put the water back in the tap once you realize you just filled your cup with hot water. and even if you pour it down the drain, your glass will still be warm, you cant avoid that. theres still something there which isnt right.
whether they meant it or not, their organisation is not good, they advertised a product before they know how it would turn out.
has anyone thought maybe they planned for it not to be a noac, but couldnt get it to work for the price? it's more than possible. that isnt their fault. however advertising it as such very much is their fault.

i dont see why theres an argument about this, they quite clearly hyped up about something which didnt end up happening, and made no effort to tell everyone a change was made, they kinda just stopped telling people it wasnt a noac and left people to find out for themselves. there would have been alot less problems if they had said "due to cost efficiency, we have had to scrap plans for a new design, and have had no choice but to use an existing noac".
i have heard of at least one person who has bought a nex and shipped it back the next day due to inferiority. i mean, the picture is meant to be pretty bad on the nex, i dont know why.. even a noac can do better than that.


i apoligise for the disorganised post, i tend to think of things in random order.

i expect that's plenty of fuel for the flames, so lets see what happens keep in mind, i do not lie, i am simply working from thinks i have read.

[Mangar]

Yeah - Has anybody gotten one and done some cart testing?

I have. It is NOT an NES on a chip, though. It has increased colors and is custom made. Not like the Yobo Clone.

Obviously the answer was false after you opened it up I suppose, but in NO WAY did Messiah directly deceive anyone about this system.

Someone lied to someone. Either Messiah directly, or you when you claimed to already have one, did cart testing, and stated as absolute fact that it wasn't a NOAC.

Not sure why it's so hard to simply admit that you were 100% completely wrong, apologize for misleading the public, and move on. By continuing to make lame excuses, you just further add fuel to the fire, and make the rest of us shake our heads with puzzlement. Give Jagasian his due and move on already.

[Jagasian]

Another telling thing about this, are the glowing news articles and reviews. I said earlier that I will continue to post reviews. Let me first quote some highlights from some suspcious "news" articles published before the NEX's release.

A small Los Angeles company, Messiah Entertainment, has promised to release this week the NEX, a system that plays NES games and even enhances the experience with wireless controllers and the ability to play rare Japan-only Famicom games.

source: http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/151...17/index.jhtml

Rare Japan-only Famicom games? This is what we call "funny hype". Famicom games are neither rare, nor is the ability to play them a big deal, as there have been inexpensive cartridge adapters for 20 years now. Nintendo themselves used Famicom cart adapters in the early NES games. Open up an old cart and see for yourself.

To sum up the Messiah NEX will be sleeker and trouble free, works with all our games, and accessories, dual mono, and plays Japanese ports.

source: http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art36274.asp

Trouble free, works with all our games? Hmm, somehow this writer got misinformed like the rest of us. How would that happen? Another great read are some of the "100% Positive" reviews. Now I am a regular customer of Lik-sang, but I know better than to trust their reviews:

Review by: Lord_Cat BF2! on October 29th, 2005
The Generation NEX arrived at my house today in an unassuming brown cardboard by delivered by FedEx. Upon opening it I was in awe at how small it is.
Packed in a clear plastic casing that holds all of the goods together, it looks awesome. Famicom on top, NES in the front, if you're looking for a replacement for either of these machines, then the Gen NEX is the way to go.
Built in 2.4 wireless controller support, and dual mono/stereo audio complete the package.
I've throwed almost every game I have at it, including an oddball 110 in 1 nes cartridge, and it worked even better in the NEX than it did in my toploader NES.
Small, Sleek and Powerful, the Generation NEX WILL fulfill your 8-bit gaming needs for years to come.
It also seems to be really sturdy in construction.
My toploader feels more flimsy than the Gen NEX does.
All of the A/V contacts are plated in gold, and next to the power adapter socket on the back of the console is a sticker that says "Charging Port", and not to remove it unless the Messiah wireless controller manual says to. I assume this means that the NEX can charge up the wireless controllers that are available from Messiah as well.
IF you spent many afternoons after school playing NES and Famicom, then you're going to love the NEX!
If I could give it 10 stars, I would!
I don't have CastleVania III Famicom, but the american release functions perfectly.

source: http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?cat...oducts_id=7407

Note how this glowing review claims that Castlevania III works perfectly on the NEX. That is a flat out lie. It is one of the games that doesn't even run on the NEX. I have submitted my own review, as have others. Funny how none of them are listed. Gamestop, on the other hand, doesn't seem to be willing to list any reviews whatsoever. They might have a policy against listing reviews of products that they don't yet have in stock. Can anybody confirm/deny that?

I also dug up the very first press release for the Generation NEX. Here is the quote that first made me think that this was just a Neo Fami repackaged:

Duel Cartridge Slots supports NES and NeoFami software

This quote implies that all NES games are intended to run on the system, but the NeoFami part immiediately got me worrying about the fact that it might use a NOAC. A few weeks later, Messiah posted their imfamous FAQ, which was very misleading as it implied that the system was not using a NOAC and would have improved compatibility.

Q: Is the Generation NEX a clone (NOAC) or does it have all of the components of an actual NES inside?
A: NEX is a clone and cannot use the actual NES IC because it is not licensed by Nintendo. (see next)

Q: Does it contain custom ICs, or is it based around the NOAC [NES-on-a-chip] that most "clone" consoles are based around?
A: Our IC is a custom designed IC that is built on the NES algorithm. Every attention to detail has been spent on compatibility.

At the time it was posted, this did not answer my then standing questions. Looking back now, it is obvious how these questions were answered: in a way to mislead, but not to be a flat out lie. This kind of double-speak set off more warning signs for me, but other people were convinced (as demonstrated by the linked news articles and old threads about the NEX) by those question and answers, that the NEX was not going to be based on a NOAC. The truth is that all evidence points to the fact that the system uses a pre-existing NOAC, but it doesn't even have compatibility on-par with other Famiclones because the NOAC isn't even wired up correctly.

Even more telling is how some people continue to attack anybody who attempts to point out the truth, in hopes to drown them out with personal attacks. I think we can let the truth speak for itself. Here is another review, but one which does not appear to be an out-right fake:
http://www.gridcycle.com/?p=59

Note that the reviewer mentions 3 other problems with the system:
1. screen flicker
2. screen is shifted to the right about an inch (other reviews have confirmed this)
3. poor build quality

[swlovinist]

I plan on getting my NEX soon, as I was one of the early and eager people to get it. While I am not going to get in the war between words, THIS WHOLE THING IS BAD FOR THIS GAMING COMMUNITY. I know that DP does not have control, but when the CGE 2K5 is supposed to showcase the NEX, and it turns out to be this...it could really turn future wouldbe gamers off from future events and/or this forum. I personally feel like NEX was claiming imcompatable issues AFTER they took alot of preorders, and that is not right clear and simple. I want the dam thing to replace my NES, not be another Famiclone that has issues. While I praise them for trying, I feel that they decieved the hardcore gaming community that would otherwise not give a shit about thier product. WE ALL SHOULD BE STERN WITH THESE INITIAL REVIEWS. In general, it makes any company, website, magazine look like an ass when the product comes out and it does not deliver what it initially was supposed to do. I praise the harsh critics, and I too feel very, very dissapointed.

[n8littlefield]

You know what really makes me angry is the attitude of Messiah that seems to be that this product isn't made for a "hardcore" audience and instead meant for a more casual gamer. They made their initial money off wireless controllers for classic systems- who do they think bought those? Then, they offer preorders - who do they think preordered? They made their money off the hardcore classic gamer and then proceeded to crap on them.

I personally applaud Jag as even when people were like "drop it" and "you're wrong" he continued to point out that things smelled fishy and didn't back down.

[Melf]

The posts of mine that you included do nothing to back up your claims. In fact, what you say there is completely wrong. The representative that I initially spoke to was female and wasn't DreamTR. He doesn't work for Messiah and never said to me that he did. All of his emails are sigged "Nubytech".

Please change what you said there or remove the quotes.

[omnedon]

Sigh.

I've tried to be civil, and share my take on the situation. I've typed so much, there is no point in typing anymore.

All I need for proof for me, that Jagasion's fervour is inexplicably HOT, is that he's lumped me in as an 'attacker' of him personally.

I'm quoted in there as one of his 'attackers' and the quote doesn't attack him at all. Jagasian, you seem to think a less heated response to the NEX's shortcomings is somehow a personal attack on you.

IMO, your credibility as a clone expert, and critical voice against the community's own efforts (the Generation NEX), peaked about 2 weeks ago, and about 100 posts ago.

I refuse to re-type an repost all of my points about business PR, peoples assumptions, and the difficulties of a small operations attempts at bringing a novel concept to market. Good or bad, I know they did their best, and now it's time for people to vote with their money.

This thread saddens me. This community eats it's own young.

[n8littlefield]

Sigh.

This thread saddens me. This community eats it's own young.

You keep saying that the community turns on its own and eats its own young, but isn't it Messiah that really did that? They took money from this community to make a system that really would be a system much more suitable to a casual gamer. I don't have the hardcore anger that Jag seems to have, but seriously, the only people I've heard stand up for the NEX are the people trying to sell it.

[Melf]

How much you want to bet that the casual gamer that buys this doesn't care less about the compatibility issues. If you look at the potential buyers for this thing - if it does go to retail, that is - the hardcore gamers are really a small percentage.

Or doesn't anyone wonder why all the famiclones out there have the same problems that never get fixed?

[Cmosfm]

Does anyone know what Mario DDR got on EGM?

Anyone? :/

According to 1up.com, they gave it a 5.0.

Chris

OUCH! Wonder why it got so low? Guess I'll have to wait to pick it up on a price drop.

[omnedon]

You keep saying that the community turns on its own and eats its own young, but isn't it Messiah that really did that? They took money from this community to make a system that really would be a system much more suitable to a casual gamer.

I just realized something. many of you screaming the loudest are not pre-order customers correct? n8littlefield? Jagasian ?

Now, I am not privy to all pre-order sales numbers, nor am I at liberty to disclose the preorder numbers I am aware of. What I do know is that the number of pre order customers is nowhere near enough to come close to, "taking money from the community to finance a system". From the numbers I'm aware of, that's laughable on the face of it.

Perhaps it's this knowledge that I posess, that many of you do not, that is part of this.

Let me say, if this was some sort of grand scam, as some lof you keep repeating ad nauseum, it is one of the worst scams ever. Scam,s are supposed to make gobs of money.

[n8littlefield]

If we're reading too much into it, then why is it then that every single review of the system that I have seen (at least those with hands-on experience) have been so incredibly negative? Why is it the only people coming to Messiah's defense seem to be people selling the system?

I don't think it's a conspiracy, I just think it's a company who screwed over it's primary audience. I planned on purchasing an NEX, but worse compatibility than my Yobo? How do you possibly defend this? How can you say that's appropriate?

Oh, and I don't mean just the preorder money funded this, I mean that I would argue that 90% of Messiah's income comes from hardcore classic gamers - their wireless controllers are obviously aimed at this audience.