Messiah's NEX System: Summary of Claims and Facts

[RCM]

How much you want to bet that the casual gamer that buys this doesn't care less about the compatibility issues. If you look at the potential buyers for this thing - if it does go to retail, that is - the hardcore gamers are really a small percentage.

Or doesn't anyone wonder why all the famiclones out there have the same problems that never get fixed?

True gamers barely matter in this industry. Casuals are all that matter. Never forget that!

[omnedon]

I just think it's a company who screwed over it's primary audience.

Hmm. I run OSG. www.oldschoolgamer.ca . One look at that site, and I'd be willing to bet you would assume my primary source of income is the classic gaming community. But you would be dead wrong. The hardcore scene is less than 8% of OSG's revenues. The lion's share is game stores and rent to own chains busted Xboxes and PS2's. An endless parade of them.

You do not know how Messiah makes money, if it makes money, and who it may or may not make money from. You assume much, and base heated responses on it.

I planned on purchasing an NEX, but worse compatibility than my Yobo? How do you possibly defend this? How can you say that's appropriate?

I do not defend this. I too am disappointed, perhaps moreso than you as I'm a reseller boyo. However, as a businessman, I guess I am just more sensitive to compromises made in the manufacture and development of an ambitious console.

Stones are easy to throw, and the biggest stone throwers did not even buy a console. Frank debate is fine! Critical reviews? Great!

White hot foaming at the mouth multi forum multi threaded vendetta is more like what this feels like IMO. It borders on spamming. WHY THE HEAT?

If I was trying to quash debate I would stop bumping threads like this. Jeeezus.

[syd]

Thanks Jagasian for posting about this, I was really interested in the compatibility of this thing. I was thinking about getting one, but I wanted to know the real deal on it before I forked over around $70 for it.

BTW, I can back up Jagasian for his knowledge of clone systems, flash carts, etc. He's definitely no beginner. This guy has always posted a lot of informing stuff on tototek and other boards.

[n8littlefield]

I'm not vengeful towards them, my anger isn't as strong as Jag's (primarily, I think because Jag seems to have issue w/ all famiclones, something I do not). In fact, when I have $$ after the holidays, their NES controllers are pretty high on my purchase list.

My issue is simply that I planned on purchasing one of these and they have royally screwed it up. Whether or not the press preceding the release blatently lied or not - it at least was misleading to declare it would play all your favorite games. I didn't preorder for financial reasons - but did plan on a Spring purchase, something that obviously won't happen now. It was an ambitious plan, but you have to admit that using a cheap NOAC was a huge mistake. It's like building a beatiful car and then throwing a lawn mower engine in it...

As a business man, it can't be easy to say "this one's more expensive, runs less games than the cheap ones, but hey, isn't it pretty?"

I don't know all of Messiah's business, however as an outsider, their website sells items that you could argue cater to a primarily educated classic gamer, so it is very likely that that is who preordered them. It really feels similar to the Flashback 1, but that people want us to cut more slack because it is a smaller company doing it.

[omnedon]

Then do not buy one.

Pre-order customers simply cannot by their very nature, be fully informed.

I've preordered an Xbox 360, and nobody really knows exactly what they are getting.

It's really simple.

Remind me to never try anything outside the box, or generate a new product for this community. Not only can one never please everyone, but unless you do please everyone, expect to have your name dragged through the mud with a concerted effort by a few. I am not referring to unfavourable reviews, but to numerous heated threads, pushed primarialy by one or two people.

I am disgusted, and out.

[n8littlefield]

How much you want to bet that the casual gamer that buys this doesn't care less about the compatibility issues. If you look at the potential buyers for this thing - if it does go to retail, that is - the hardcore gamers are really a small percentage.

Or doesn't anyone wonder why all the famiclones out there have the same problems that never get fixed?

It's funny but I think there's just a double standard involved here. I think when we buy a normal clone system, like the Yobo for example, we don't expect perfection because we know it's a knockoff product, we know if there are instructions they will be in mixed English, and we just expect it's not going to run perfectly. You expect cheap controllers and poor quality plastic.

With the NEX, there was actual pre-release press, and well packaged materials, and real instructions - I think that all of that combined to make some of us expect more than a Famiclone. Probably a combination of our high expectations and Messiah's PR caused us to question combatibility on the NEX more than the older NOAC systems.

[swlovinist]

I am disgusted too with where this debate is going, although anyone who is not financially connected to the product is saying the same thing...The NEX sucks and has not delivered on its promise, but launched a product that was inferior to its claim. It poor business practices, and I can assure you that in the end, anyone connected to the product will feel its downfall. I dont hate anyone. I dont hate messiah. I dont hate OSG. What I do hate is irresponsible business practices and lack of accountibility. Insted of making excuses for a product that HAS NOT DELIVERED, I would challenge Messiah and others financially related to release an apology to all people who spent $60.00 on something only to find out days before recieving the product that the system is imcompatable with many games. That in itself is bullshit. That is poor business planning, marketing, and public relations. I dont like being decieved, nor do I take like being taken advantage of. People around here know I am an honest guy and very mild tempered. This pisses me off

[Jagasian]

The posts of mine that you included do nothing to back up your claims. In fact, what you say there is completely wrong. The representative that I initially spoke to was female and wasn't DreamTR. He doesn't work for Messiah and never said to me that he did. All of his emails are sigged "Nubytech".

Please change what you said there or remove the quotes.

I never implied that DreamTR did an interview with you, however, his posts show him talking to you as a representitive of the NEX gaming system. I was pointing out that he works for Messiah. While he might technically be listed as being an employee of Nubytech, he works for Messiah in the sense that Nubytech is the distributor for Messiah, DreamTR was representing them, he had early access to the system, and he also created the compatibility list that is on Messiah's web site. Just because his tax forms aren't signed by Messiah, it does not mean that he wasn't working for them.

Can anybody else here add to or edit the compatibility list on Messiah's site? Of course not. Why is that? Because he works for Messiah and most of the rest of us do not.

The point is this. It is possible to lie, not directly, but by being misleading, spreading misinformation, and allowing misinformation to continue to spread. Many people were mislead, and when people tried to point out the truth, their concerns were burried in personal attacks and misinformation. Even after the NEX is released and the facts became undeniable, we now have people spinning things to make it seem like there was no wrong doing.

Anyway, you can check and see that I have updated the side note in the parent post, as requested.

I also realize that is it easier to sell a lemon to less technically inclined consumers, and I am sure that the NEX will sell because there will be plenty of people that are not well-informed about the defects with the system. This in no way makes it right, and I would claim that it is wrong to sell casual gamers a lemon.

It hurts them and it hurts the memory of the NES. People will no longer remember the games as they truely are, but instead will remember the crappy Famiclone and emulation recreations of them. While the graphics and sound are dated, these Famiclones make the games look and sound worse than they do on a real system. Hence the NES and its games are defamed. No die-hard NES fan can be OK with that.

[Melf]

Thanks for the edit.

[Teknik_SE-R]

<insert lame movie reference here>
flame on!!!!!!

thanks for posting all of those reviews. I too found that review on lik-sang both hilariously and obviously rigged, or else that guy doesn't know what is going on. How many people can attest to CVIII not playing? anyone that knows this Lord_Cat BF2 (if he even exists) needs to get him on this forum so we can ask him how he got it to work.

two of the reviews JAG listed I thought were more unbiased than the others, and definitely more fair. They state that it is well built, can use NES perphs, and plays most games at an acceptable level. They state the problems with it, and that it is a mojor downfall, but in ther opinion, it is as good as any clone. well, that's good enough for me. (after everything, I decided not to get a refund) If a more compatible version comes out, I will probably buy one of those too!

Some might say "just get a toaster for $30" or "get a yobo for $20 cheaper" and these may be more logical, but I'm up for giving the NEX a shot. I didn't need a clone anyway. I already have a toaster and toploader. I am just up for collecting, and I plan on getting a yobo too.

For those that are looking for a direct replacement, I would say, "keep dreaming and in the meantime, get a toaster"

All in all, I Still feel Messiah didn't handle the incompatability issue well at all, and am disappointed that the NEX didn't fulfill all of the hype that was built around it. BUT It doesn't mean its the equivalent of a piece of dog crap with a cart connector attached to it, and quite frankly, that is what most of the reviews, and dp and atariage forums make it sound like.

all bitterness and hype aside, I am sure it is a decent attempt at cloning the NES.

I plan on posting my own (as unbiased as possible) review when i get the system. I will have the compatibility list, my TopLoader, and my toaster by my side for comparison to test the feeble 50+ cart collection i have.

lets pray for another (BETTER!) iteration in the near future

[badinsults]

I hope you guys realize that the NES support is nothing more than a Trojan horse. Why would the NEX support stereo sound when there are no stereo NES games? Why whould the NEX support 16 colors rather than 4? Quite frankly, I think the Generation NEX is intended to be a stand alone console that will eventually have its own games, but in order to invest in game making, they needed some flow of money. That is why it was made into a Famiclone. Again, as I mentioned in the other thread, this is not a device that is to replace the NES, and is not for people who demand 100% compatibility. This is for people who want a nifty device that has wireless controllers, will probably have new NES-style games made for it, and happens to play most NES games without much problems. Messiah has claimed from the beginning that they want to make games that take advantage of the capablities of the system, and I hope that they release a development kit soon that that it will happen.

I have no vested interest in the NEX. I don't even own a single NES cart. But anyone who seriously believed that the NEX would have perfect compatibility were pretty naive. It is a Trojan horse.

[MR.TI994A]

Stones are easy to throw, and the biggest stone throwers did not even buy a console.

I don't see how this relevant. So if I didn't work for Enron, I can't comment on their business practices?

No, I am not comparing Messiah to Enron. My point is that people have opinions, and this is the place to post them. If not, let's shut this whole thing down and go our own merry way. You don't have to own the system to comment on its shortcomings which have been publicly well documented. Your comment seems to me like nothing more than a feeble attempt to cut-off discussion of the system's flaws. Seriously, the whole "if you don't like it don't buy it" argument is downright lame. I for one am happy there have been threads like this and the other one. This site had been advertising the Messiah for some time now, and I was strongly considering getting one. I am glad all of this has been brought to my attention, and not left up to me find it out on my own. We need more discussions like these.

Here I got one. If you don't like this thread, don't respond to it. Same logic, right?

[Jagasian]

i myself was very tempted to get a nex, i thought "a clone, but not a noac pos? this might actually be worth my while" but then it comes out and it is definitely a nes on a chip, and whats more, they didnt even wire it correctly. theres a pin called /A13 which is half the reason many games dont work. instead of connecting it to the cartridge slot, they connected it right to ground. there is at least one game which holds this line at 5 volts, meaning as soon as you put that game in, you've connected 5v and ground.

Aside from compatibility issues, what problems could this cause? Could this possibly damage the NEX or the game cartridge itself? Is it a fire hazard?

[smokehouse]

I’ve been reading through this thread and have tried to take a neutral stance to everything. Jagasian is right and well informed. It seems the reason why he is constantly repeating himself is because other false statements have been made time and time again. I too expected the NEX to be something more than a coming NES clone. This was the way it was marketed; this was the way it was originally described. This is false advertising. If the chipsets in the NEX are nothing more than a cheap-o NOAC, Messiah should state that. The problems with the unit are too many to ignore.

Another thing brought up quite a few times was the fact that it is being sold to the “casual” gamer. The NES is how old? How many “casual” gamers still play it? This entire thought process des not make sense. How many casual gamers go looking for old NES carts? They’re too busy playing cookie cutter titles on their PS2 or Xbox. The causal gamer is also not going to know Messiah even exists. This to me is irrelevant.

The flat fact is that the Nex was marketed as another NES system, plain and simple. I’m no fool and I have been following this thing since it’s birth and this is how I understood it to be. It was falsely marketed and no they’re backpedaling. I feel sorry for all the people who made preorders BEFORE all this crap came out of the woodwork. Hopefully Messiah will learn from this and make a “2.0”

Thanks Jagasian for all the info, it is appreciated.

[Melf]

Another thing brought up quite a few times was the fact that it is being sold to the “casual” gamer. The NES is how old? How many “casual” gamers still play it? This entire thought process des not make sense. How many casual gamers go looking for old NES carts? They’re too busy playing cookie cutter titles on their PS2 or Xbox. The causal gamer is also not going to know Messiah even exists. This to me is irrelevant.

The same amount of casual gamers that buy the 400 million Atari and Genesis plug-'n-play systems that have been released lately. These things have much more mainstream appeal than hardcore, which is why they sell so well.

[n8littlefield]

Another thing brought up quite a few times was the fact that it is being sold to the “casual” gamer. The NES is how old? How many “casual” gamers still play it? This entire thought process des not make sense. How many casual gamers go looking for old NES carts? They’re too busy playing cookie cutter titles on their PS2 or Xbox. The causal gamer is also not going to know Messiah even exists. This to me is irrelevant.

The same amount of casual gamers that buy the 400 million Atari and Genesis plug-'n-play systems that have been released lately. These things have much more mainstream appeal than hardcore, which is why they sell so well.

I'm not sure - without built-in games I think the audience is much more limited than the plug n play systems. I mean, if someone buys one, they then have to hunt down games which is getting tougher and tougher. If Messiah could have put even like 20 games built-in it may have been a big help to their sales.

I think there's a big difference to a mainstream gamer in picking up a 10 game plug n play for $20 and paying $60 for a system alone. For that price you could get a used Cube or (almost) a new GBASP!

[Jagasian]

If we are talking about casual gamers, then yes, the system has to have games built-in, or it must be sold along-side working cartridges. The majority of retailers these days do not sell NES carts, and it is also hard to make sure that the carts are in good enough condition to work well for a casual gamer.

There are Famiclones being sold in shopping malls around the USA, which do include many built-in games. Of course, these Famiclones are violating copyright law, but the casual gamer is not aware of this. Therefore to the casual gamer, they can buy a $20 Famiclone that comes with built-in games, 2 controllers, and a lightgun, or they can buy a $60 NEX that comes with no games, only 1 controller, and no lightgun.

The original selling point of the NEX was that it would be a high-quality, highly compatible, custom clone, not just another Famiclone. However, since it turns out that it is just another Famiclone, it has to compete against other Famiclones, which are less expensive, have built-in games, and better compatibility.

[Amos]

I still don't see any hard evidence that the NEX uses the same chip as any previous Famiclone. All I see is a picture of a black blob onto which somebody has Photoshopped the letters "NOAC".

If it’s true that the list of games that are incompatible with the NEX is similar to the list of games that are incompatible with the Yobo or any other Famiclone, then that evidence is circumstantial at best. It makes sense to me that there is something unusual about the way those specific games were programmed and/or manufactured, and that in trying to make them work properly, the Messiah team ran into the same obstacles that were encountered by the folks who created the other Famiclones. Can anyone identify a specific Famiclone that behaves exactly the same way as the NEX, with the exact problems playing the exact same games?

Not even even a toaster NES is guaranteed to work with all NES games. Nintendo released many different revisions of the NES hardware in order to make it incompatible with unlicensed games.

If it’s true that the NEX chip has the same pinouts as previous NOACs, then that evidence is also circumstantial. I can think of several reasons why it would be beneficial for Messiah or any other developer to intentionally use the same pinouts when creating a new NES-compatible chip. For starters, it would be easier to test the chip’s functionality during the development process because you wouldn’t have to design a custom circuit board to feed the chip power, hook up controller inputs and examine the A/V output; you could simply use the circuit board from an existing Famiclone. Also, if you were talented enough to design a chip that had greater compatibility than the existing NOACs, you could make a lot of money by selling your chip to the manufacturers of the existing Famiclones, who could use it in their own hardware without having to retool the current design of their circuit boards.

It strikes me as potentially libelous for people to continually start new threads for no obvious reason other than to discourage others from buying a specific product. Plus, I can’t believe no one has mentioned the fact that the Digital Press logo appears on the NEX packaging, and that the NEX manual includes the complete Digital Press NES price guide/rarity list. To continually slam the NEX and compare its makers to “the Anti-Christ” on DP’s own message boards is not only somewhat disrespectful, it’s also indirectly causing harm to the good Digital Press name.

[EricRyan34]

all of this talk about the NEX lately makes me glad that I didnt pre-order one and just stuck with my good ole Yobo FC Console

[Ed Oscuro]

I still don't see any hard evidence that the NEX uses the same chip as any previous Famiclone. All I see is a picture of a black blob onto which somebody has Photoshopped the letters "NOAC".

This was discussed in detail at the NESdev Forums. It is indeed a NES-On-A-Chip, and anybody protesting to the contrary is simply uninformed or being dishonest.

Not even even a toaster NES is guaranteed to work with all NES games. Nintendo released many different revisions of the NES hardware in order to make it incompatible with unlicensed games.

They were, sadly, within their rights to do that at the time. Controversial? Of course, but these were not licensed titles and the thinking is that they had no reason to allow their production. Possibly flawed, but this is indeed a dead and buried issue.

To continually slam the NEX and compare its makers to “the Anti-Christ” on DP’s own message boards is not only somewhat disrespectful, it’s also indirectly causing harm to the good Digital Press name.

Give me a break. I address this in great detail elsewhere: what's causing harm to the good DP name are the actions of those who continue to defend this garbage. After all these reviews are in - you're not lazy, go find them, they've already been linked - it's evident that anybody defending the NEX at this point either hasn't read the reviews or hasn't use a NEX to any deal, and cannot be counted on to give reliable advice to their "fellow" classic gamers...fellow Forumers, anyway.