Xbox 360: what is the point

[badinsults]

The Xbox 360 has been released, with much fanfare. My question is, why?

- It claims to have the largest amount of titles available for launch for any system. However, most games are just graphically upgraded (though only slightly) versions of games that appear on other consoles. The leap from Xbox to Xbox 360 certainly isn't the leap that the PS2 was over the PS1.

- The biggest excluve release is Perfect Dark Zero, which was greeted as being poor compared to Halo, or even the predecesor Goldeneye.

- Most of the EA sports games have features that were cut out

- The extreme shortage at launch indicates that they were having to rush to get this thing out on time.

- The Japanese launch was a failure. Their lackluster advertising campaign failed to raise awareness in Japan. Why did they even bother to release it there?

- The Xbox 360 is not backwards compatible. Their emulator fails in many respects and it will likely take a long time before all games work.

- There is no Halo game for launch. Come on, that is like Nintendo releasing a system without a Mario game at launch (yes, I'm looking at the Gamecube)

- It does not support HD-DVD. If Microsoft is so adamant for this format, why don't they throw it in their system? Sony's blu ray format will certainly gain the upper hand in that battle if the PS3 has blu ray standard

- What are the upcoming games? Aside from the obvious Halo 3 and other releases like FF11 and Too Human, what is next? There is almost no hype for upcoming titles.

- HDTV may be the future, but it certainly isn't here yet. Having mindblowing graphics is one thing, but when you degrade the experience for people with standard tvs, you are not going to please many people outside the hardcore base.

- Online gaming is all the rage, but there is limited reach if you have to pay money to subscribe to it. Do you think Starcraft would have been such a big online game if people had to pay for it? I think not. Nintendo knows this, and offers a free service.

- Having a hard drive and non-hard drive console is quite a bizarre move. It was standard on the xbox, and was certainly one of the best features on the xbox.

- Rare. What the crap Rare, really. Rare was the crutch of the N64, but now they put out mediocre titles that no one cares about.

- Why did teh Xbox 360 start at such a low price? Why sell at a loss when there is such a shortage now that you could sell at cost and still sell out the console. The loss leader attitude will eventually piss off investors.

- The Xbox 360 is definitely aimed at hardcore gamers. However, probably half of those hardcore gamers will also get PS3s. This spreads around the money spent on games. They need to expand beyond the hardcore group, but it doesn't appear that they are interested in doing this.

[Griking]

Huh, did you say something?

[Cmtz]

Did you type all that?

[Lothars]

I honestly agree with almost all that you listed there, but the one thing that is a big thing for me is the market place with the older games, which really interest me more than any other game for the system, but it's just one of those things

we will see how it ends up doing in the next couple months.

[Flack]

I wish I had the energy to respond to every one of those points. Maybe after breakfast.

[Dangerboy]

It claims to have the largest amount of titles....Xbox to Xbox 360 certainly isn't the leap that the PS2 was over the PS1.

1. It doesn't matter what the titles are, it still had the largest launch day library with a really nice depth of titles. Sony didn't even have a 1st party game at PS2 launch. Heck, N64 only had 2 games!

And last I check, the PS2 wasn't exactly leaps and bounds over PS1 games when it launched; no new system is. The system doesn't show it's real potential until the 2nd wave of games, when the developers have had plenty of time to kick the system around.

The biggest excluve release is Perfect Dark Zero, which was greeted as being poor compared to Halo, or even the predecesor Goldeneye.

True, but it acts more of a coffee table conversation revelation. "Yeah, Rare is now with Microsoft...hey...isn't the Final Fantasy Guy now with them?"

- Most of the EA sports games have features that were cut out

Absolutely true. Except this is EAs fault and their's alone, not Microsoft nor the 360s. 2K Sports has the brains to actually make a more complete basketball game....why couldn't EA?

- The extreme shortage at launch indicates that they were having to rush to get this thing out on time.

Gee, kinda like the PS2.

- The Japanese launch was a failure. Their lackluster advertising campaign failed to raise awareness in Japan. Why did they even bother to release it there?

A US deck in a Japanese Dominated market. Not even the 3DO stood a chance, and that actually had anime titles. At least they tried. Sometimes showing you're willing to give something a shot is more impressive than actually succeeding, especially with the odds stacked so high against you.

- The Xbox 360 is not backwards compatible. Their emulator fails in many respects and it will likely take a long time before all games work.

They said it was compaitble with top selling games. They never said all of them. Also, Sony released a new PS2 in Japan that doesn't even play certain PS2 games, including Tekken 5. Why bash a system that can't play a different systems' games, but not bash a system that can't play its own games?

- There is no Halo game for launch. Come on, that is like Nintendo releasing a system without a Mario game at launch (yes, I'm looking at the Gamecube)

Halo 1 was their "taking a chance game" that turned out brilliantly. You're bitching about everything being rushed and not done right, and now you want to wonder why Microsoft didn't shovelware the #1 bread winner out the door? Please.

- It does not support HD-DVD. If Microsoft is so adamant for this format, why don't they throw it in their system? Sony's blu ray format will certainly gain the upper hand in that battle if the PS3 has blu ray standard

Microsoft I can't answer for. As for Blue Ray? Just another color of disc that won't be able to played in a Sony machine 4 months after using the deck.

- What are the upcoming games? Aside from the obvious Halo 3 and other releases like FF11 and Too Human, what is next? There is almost no hype for upcoming titles.

Hype usually detracts from a game, like how Halo 2 (which is a great game) is suddenly shit because it didn't live up to
'what people were expecting'. The best way to make a splash is to have no expectations, that way players aren't comparing reality to their visions.

See also MGS2: Sons of Liberty, Mario Sunshine, etc...

I'm personally looking forward to Burnout 3, Dead or Alive 4, Elder Scrolls 4, both Myst Walker games...etc...etc...

- HDTV may be the future, but it certainly isn't here yet. Having mindblowing graphics is one thing, but when you degrade the experience for people with standard tvs, you are not going to please many people outside the hardcore base.

It's called progress.

Last I checked the government was going to actually help people upgrade to high def TVs in a few years, since that will be the new broadcasting standard. Nothing like getting an early jump, eh?

Your comment also applies to the PS2 and XBox 1...people using AV cables on their tube TVs have a worse picture than I do with my Wega and Component cables.

When AV cables first started coming out, with RF being the standard, would you have been making this same complaint?

Online gaming is all the rage, but there is limited reach if you have to pay money to subscribe to it. Do you think Starcraft would have been such a big online game if people had to pay for it? I think not. Nintendo knows this, and offers a free service.

You can't compare PC online to console online. Live is well worth the yearly fee just for all the neat bells and whistles you can do with it. I think I played online with my PS2 once for Kill Zone, and haven't done it since.

Second, both PSP and DS have free online attachments because they have no true base of operation. No one is going to pay for a service they can only use where a wireless router / adapter is.

Plus, the Revolution online download programs apparently aren't free, but fee based in someway. The only reason PS2 is online for free is because Sony washed their hands of everything. Microsoft handles everything with a Live logo on it.

- Having a hard drive and non-hard drive console is quite a bizarre move. It was standard on the xbox, and was certainly one of the best features on the xbox.

See PS2 - with and wthout modem...or save function...

For some people who don't want to play online, the $100 they saved went to 2 games, a game and a memory card, or more controllers, etc.

Microsoft gave people a choice, and seeing how Cores sold just as well as Premiums, the gamble worked.

- Rare. What the crap Rare, really. Rare was the crutch of the N64, but now they put out mediocre titles that no one cares about.

Burned out. Plus didn't a few of the original staff leave? The same is true about Square...the current staff in charge of FF have no clue what made FF...well....FF. I haven't touched a Square game in years.

- Why did the Xbox 360 start at such a low price? Why sell at a loss when there is such a shortage now that you could sell at cost and still sell out the console. The loss leader attitude will eventually piss off investors.

Nintendo is the only company I know of that can sell decks at cost / or for a profit. Console Comapnies make their profit on the software both on the consumer side and on the royalty side. Sometimes you need to take a loss to make a profit.

What would piss you off more as an investor? That you're losing money shipping decks out the door, building a huge userbase that will come back and buy up the software and accessories...or watching your investment dollars sink because the hardware is too expensive for the mainstream consumer (See: 3DO).

This also contradicts your earlier statement about the TV / HD TV...the $180 Microsoft loses per deck is back in the consumers hands, which can be put towards that shiny new HD-TV. I've had several customers ask for the make/model of the Samsung models Microsoft uses on their kiosks because it helps make the system shine.

With rumors of the PS3 at $500, and games at $80, that's already turning a lot of people off, except the truly 'hardcore' sony fans.

- The Xbox 360 is definitely aimed at hardcore gamers. However, probably half of those hardcore gamers will also get PS3s. This spreads around the money spent on games. They need to expand beyond the hardcore group, but it doesn't appear that they are interested in doing this.

Actually, it was aimed at every gamer. Any $400 system that has a killer old school 2D game included on the hard drive (Hexic is addictive) as well as supports killer 3D games like Call of Duty, AND has a beautiful, easy to use online service that keeps track of damn near everything, plus options like custom soundtracks and what have you, has to be doing something right.

Dollars to donuts the same original post will be made when the PS3 comes out, just with the appropiate names changed.

[esquire]

Rather than respond to all your questions, I'll simply ask one in return:

Do you actually own a 360, and if so, what games have you bought (not played at a kiosk) for it?

[fishsandwich]

I agree that the quality of the launch titles were less than overwhelming. The 360's complex "multiple-core" architecture will mean a high learning curve. Games that take advantage of it will come eventually and really show what the 360 can do.

I agree that the harddrive/no harddrive thing is silly.

That's about it.

[XianXi]

- They said it was compaitble with top selling games. They never said all of them. Also, Sony released a new PS2 in Japan that doesn't even play certain PS2 games, including Tekken 5. Why bash a system that can't play a different systems' games, but not bash a system that can't play its own games?

You are comparing an American released console to a Japan only release console? Sony doesn't really care what they release in Japan, only in America where it counts since we are their biggest market.

-With rumors of the PS3 at $500, and games at $80, that's already turning a lot of people off, except the truly 'hardcore' sony fans.

If it's fully backwards compatible like they says it's gonna be I think $500 is a bargain for a console that can play PS1, PS2 and PS3 games and DVDs, CDs etc. Not to mention that those are around the same prices as the 360 had upon release. PLus with Sony you may get a few bugs in the 1st release of the PS3 but at least no crashing.

[Dangerboy]

You are comparing an American released console to a Japan only release console? Sony doesn't really care what they release in Japan, only in America where it counts since we are their biggest market.

They cared so much there was a class action lawsuit for several models of American PS2s that scratched CDs, overheated, or flat out didn't work.

2nd, if they don't care about their own home market...who are they going to care about?

Not to mention that those are around the same prices as the 360 had upon release

Um...$500 is a LOT more than $400, especially with what comes with the 360 (headset, component cables, live, etc).

And $80 is still $20- $30 more than current 360 stuff.

That's like saying $1,000 is around thesame price as $800.

Maybe I don't make enough money to consider a $200 difference "close enough".

[XianXi]

Around meaning upwards of $400. And we still don't know what is going to be included with the PS3. $500 is not even a set price yet it may come with 2 controllers and some other stuff, who knows. We will have to wait and see.

[hezeuschrist]

Way to fall to the Sony hype machine hook, line, and sinker.

I'm sorry, but $500 is way too fucking much for a console. Unless it can pleasure me physically, it's too much. Will I pay it? Depends on if theres anything I want to play at launch, and if there is I'll pay it and be bitter about it.

Kutaragi and his band of merry assholes are marketing geniuses. He's going to come out and tout the PS3 as being the greatest advancement in technology since the invention of the microprocessor and say that everyone will want to work overtime just to own the Jesus Machine (tm). Then when they launch it at "only" $500 people won't crucify them for it.

Not to mention with the $400 360 bundle you get everything but a game that you would need to have the full potential of the system and enjoy it's entire online experience. If the PS3 is $500 for the equivalent of the 360 Core system then they're REALLY way out of line.

[esquire]

If it's fully backwards compatible like they says it's gonna be I think $500 is a bargain for a console that can play PS1, PS2 and PS3 games and DVDs, CDs etc.

Whoa there! Whoever said its going to 100% compatible, especially with PS2 and PS1 games? The PS2 alone is not 100% compatible with PS1 games. Plus Sony has already admitted that the PS3 will not be 100% compatible with PS2 games.

Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 12:39 am Post subject: PS3 Not 100% Backwards Compatible?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Somewhat surprisingly, SCEI’s Reiko Sakamoto admitted not only that the list of problem games may grow but also that the imminent PS3 will not necessarily be 100% backwards compatible. You heard it here first.

(Via IDG News Service)

Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. (SCEI) is launching a limited edition version of its PlayStation 2 to boost holiday sales in Japan. It comes with a special surprise: the inability to play some games smoothly.

SCEI has published a list of nine PlayStation 2 games and 38 PlayStation games that run into problems on the new console. The SCPH-75000 will be available in Japan from Nov. 23, and is modeled on the slim-line PlayStation 2 that SCEI put on sale just under a year ago. In launching the new model, SCEI is using an oft-employed sales-boosting tactic of making a console available in a different color — silver in this case — for a limited period.

However, this time changes made inside the console are causing trouble.

"We believe multiple factors are responsible," said Reiko Sakamoto, a spokeswoman for SCEI in Tokyo. The latest console uses a new chipset — the chip that sits between the main processor and the rest of the device — and changes in that chip coupled with the way some software is programmed are believed to be causing the glitches, she said. The problems are largely screen hang-ups during certain parts of the game but also include glitches such as the slow saving of game data onto memory cards.

The problems were discovered when SCEI began compatibility testing of the new consoles with the roughly 8,000 games that have been released for the PlayStation and PlayStation 2 consoles in Japan. Mass production of the consoles had already begun at the time.

As testing isn't complete the list could become longer. SCEI wouldn't specify how many titles remain to be tested but said "most of" the software testing has been completed.

Looking ahead to the PlayStation 3, which SCEI plans to launch in the first half of next year, Sakamoto said that SCEI remains committed to backwards compatibility with existing titles on the new machine.

"It's hard to say the PlayStation 3 will be 100 percent backwards compatible but as we said earlier this year we aim to make it so as much as possible," Sakamoto said.

The latest promotion comes at an important time for the company: ahead of the holiday sales season in Japan and just under three weeks before Microsoft is due to launch its Xbox 360 console in Japan. SCEI hasn't detailed an international launch for the console, which will cost ¥19,800 ($171) in Japan.”

Shamelessly stolen from this thread

[mikeetler]

Last I checked the government was going to actually help people upgrade to high def TVs in a few years, since that will be the new broadcasting standard. Nothing like getting an early jump, eh?

Slightly OT but you're way off on this. The current plan is a complete switch to digital transmission from analog in 2008. Congress is working on a way to get government subsidized digital to analog converters to people that don't want or can't afford to upgrade to HDTV sets.

[Joker T]

You don't have to buy one you know

[esquire]

You don't have to buy one you know

My thoughts exactly. That's the reason why I made my original post asking if the poster even had the system to begin with.

Seriously do we need another topic that attempts to justify why someone doesn't have "Console X"? If you don't like it, don't buy it. No need to pile on other peoples' financial decisions and gaming choices. Personally, when I see threads like these, I see them nothing more than sour grapes.

Perhaps I should start my own thread:

"Another thread bashing Console X: What's the Point?"

[XianXi]

I wouldnt mind getting one but I need to fill my Neo Geo AES fill first. I'll let my brother buy the PS3 since he's 18 now and I bought all the other consoles.

[leorange]

In case anyone reads this, my Xbox 360 thread is an experiment. Much like the Truth Media segments on Something Awful. I want to see the reaction. I wish that people could come up with interesting topics, but it isn't happening anymore.

[Push Upstairs]

Talk about a non-interesting topic....

[unwinddesign]

This topic: what is the point?