Contra name translation: progress/help plz

[Ed Oscuro]

Pretty simple topic: I wanted to figure out what what the name means. For a long time I'd heard a literal translation would be "battle spirit (some type of) cloth," but that doesn't really seem to be the case.

Here's my progress so far.

Babelfished, Japanese to English for "魂斗羅" comes out as "soul 斗羅" which isn't much, but a start.

Working with Chinese did much better, however. I worked with the source here and found that "魂斗罗" = "The soul fights Luo" which makes a lot of sense, actually. I did that with simplified Chinese. Next, I tried the regular Japanese title as traditional Chinese, and got the same translation once again...which, when I think about it, is something I should've figured out at first

Anyway, read the page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yan_Luo_(Chinese_mythology) to see what this Luo is all about. Why it makes sense in the context of the Contra series should be obvious.

[InsaneDavid]

The Contra games weren't known as "Contra" in Japan, they were known as "Gryzor."

[davidbrit2]

Uh, "Contra" isn't a word of Japanese or Chinese origin. It's Latin, if I'm not mistaken. Trying to translate a Latin word from Japanese won't get you much. :-)

But yeah, no clue what Gryzor is supposed to mean. Heh.

EDIT: Well damn, I just checked the title screen in the ROM, and they did just use those seemingly random Kanji that have the reading "KO-N-TO-RA". That's pretty freaking weird, I must say.

[Ed Oscuro]

The Contra games weren't known as "Contra" in Japan, they were known as "Gryzor."

Common misconception I'm trying to fight

No worries, even the Japanese FC ROM is often mislabeled as Gryzor. As far as I can tell, this is a European invention, Gryzor being Lance's last name - that or they took it out of the Japanese manual/whatever materials, which I obviously can't read very well.

EDIT: Well damn, I just checked the title screen in the ROM, and they did just use those seemingly random Kanji that have the reading "KO-N-TO-RA". That's pretty freaking weird, I must say.

It's the same deal with Salamander.

Sa-ra-man-da.

This is known as "Ateji," and Konami used it for at least these two projects. You take a word from another language ("Contra" or "Salamander") and put together kanji to make a word that sounds correct, and has a meaning of its own relevant to the word. "Sand Gauze Wide Snake" doesn't really make much sense to me, aside from the "snake" part, but "Contra" does.

"Contra" is taken from the Iran-Contra affair. Many people have speculated this due to the timing and Konami USA's changing of Super Contra to "Super C" for the NES release, but what seals it is the name of the ending theme for the original Contra - "Sandinista." This was the name of the leftist group that fought the Contras ("Contras" being shorthand for the Spanish for contrarrevolucionarios, "Counter-revolutionaries").

I have no idea, aside from an infatuation with the word and their clever ateji, why Konami would've picked this title (and from what I've read the manuals state that "Contra" is a nam given to somebody of exceptional ability, which isn't much of a political statement).

On February 2nd, 1987, the original arcade Contra's release, the extent of the Iran-Contra affair was not known and wuld not be until the November 17th release of the Tower Commission's report, and Ollie North/John Poindexter weren't indicted until March '88 - and by that time both Super Contra and the home port of Contra had arrived (January 28th and February 9th respectively).

After that, nothing was heard of the series in Japan until a May '89 release of Contra for the MSX2, and the 2/2/90 release of Super Contra for the FC.

Very handy reference, but I wish they had purchase prices too

[GaijinPunch]

Ed:

There's a few games like this:

Contra
Salamander
Rabbit (on the Saturn)

are the three that come to mind. Indeed, the kanji have some type of meaning, but rest assured, they made the kanji fit the katakana pronunciation. There is no chicken or the egg mystery here. It's not limited to games either. The words "America" and "tobacco" both have kanji equivalents (4 and 3 characters respectively).

This is known as "Ateji,"

I don't think this is actually ateji. I forgot the exact rules, but the pronunciations of the characters in the above examples are standard, and the meanings also have some vague meaning here, especially w/ Salamander, the last character being snake.

If you're really interested in knowing, PM a guy named twe at shmups.com forums. He's a linguist getting his doctorate right now, and knows way more about the history of the Japanese langauge than me (or proably any other white person on a gaming forum). There's a word for what these are, but I can't recall it.

The Contra games weren't known as "Contra" in Japan, they were known as "Gryzor."

What the fuck? Did I completely miss something?

[InsaneDavid]

The Contra games weren't known as "Contra" in Japan, they were known as "Gryzor."

What the fuck? Did I completely miss something?

After years of emulation databasing and romset testing, stupid things creep up in my head. Gryzor was what the arcade Contra was known as in Europe before the NES releases where it was renamed Probotector.

...Have I redeemed myself?

[Ed Oscuro]

Oh snap. Well, I accidentally got you switched up with somebody else, GaijinPunch, but hey, I learned something interesting from them too!

Anyhow, thanks a ton for the heads-up; I'll contact your language guy and see what he has to say.

To explain my hunch more fully, and how I got there:

"Spirit fights Luo" is more than a random combination of symbols. The thematic similarity between going deep underground to fight the alien, and that of Luo - god or king of the underworld - is too good to be a coincidence.

As said before, I don't see at all what "Salamander" is supposed to mean," but Kontora is fairly simple. Of course, you have to get to Chinese first, and the character actually changes, but that seems to be part of the artform style (ateji, or whatever it turns out to be).

[davidbrit2]

Here's the characters from Salamander:

沙 (sa) - sand
羅 (ra) - gauze, thin silk
曼 (man) - wide, beautiful
蛇 (da) - snake, serpent

Sounds like some kind of weird description of a salamander to me.

[Ed Oscuro]

Here's the characters from Salamander:

沙 (sa) - sand
羅 (ra) - gauze, thin silk
曼 (man) - wide, beautiful
蛇 (da) - snake, serpent

Sounds like some kind of weird description of a salamander to me.

From the point of view of a silly Gaijin, a pretty silly one.

I agree that Salamanders are cute, even beautiful. Remember the last time I turned one up under a wood chip by a river bank...aww!

Also, I've followed up on the lead, GP, just waiting for him to get back with me. Thanks a bunch!

[GaijinPunch]

He's a busy guy, but I'm sure he'll get back to you. I might be seeing him this weekend. I'll ask him if I do (he lives in Hawaii).

[Neo Rasa]

But yeah, no clue what Gryzor is supposed to mean.

Was the European version localized in Japan? Perhaps a silly miswriting of the protagonist's name, B. Rizer.